rec.autos.simulators

by **jlohma** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:24:32

This is exactly why serious game companies will never put the code in to
help with the set ups. It's not about if they are able. The computer could
make all the calculations and have a perfect set up for you to run. It's
more about what those companies feel there customers want in a sim.

But fortunatly there are very few elitist hard core simers out there, and
soon it will not be profitable for companies to make sims for the select
few. The majority of the population will not buy a game and compete online
if they know they can't win.

So you can brag all you want about having better set ups and lap times all
you want, because this will be a thing of the past in a matter of a couple
of years, and the rest of the majority of the public will be content with
GT4 or NFS7 (or what ever they are up to).

by **Tom Pabs** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:41:14

Now there's a terrific idea for league racing. Two man teams....one crew
chief...one driver. Could the driver and crew chief not be in voice com via
the telephone, and the crew chief watching the race from the TV cam of a
"non racing" car? Could he not also be your live and real "spotter"......??
I'd love to see an online racing league give this a trial....if the code
could be hacked into a sim.

TP

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:08:16

"jlohman" <
(snip)
It's not about if they are able. The computer could
Isn't that what F1 teams do nowdays? They have the computer predict the
car's behaivor and render a base setup. Most teams only make comfort
adjustments nowdays...That's why guys like Zanardi didn't do well, he's a
seat of his pants kind of driver, yet the Williams team basically said,
here's the car setup to be the fastest posible at this circuit. Now learn
to drive it...
dave henrie

by **John Smi** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:35:45

I had thought about the amount of typing needed and thought that maybe a
form of shorthand would help, the crew chief could be more verbose. Here is
a sample idea of how that could work:

Crew Cheif types: Hows it handling?

Driver: (possible responses)
TI1 (tight going into turn 1)
TC1 (tight in center of turn 1)
TO1 ( tight out of turn 1)

LI1 ( loose in turn 1)
LC1 ( loose in center of turn one)
LO1 ( loose out of turn one)

Or the crewchief could ask questions that just needed a Y/N answer

Voice comms would be great, but that entails having a good enough
connection so that it works, or being able to use the regular phone system
while online, so having the text option would be good for those that didnt
have access to voice comms.

by **Isotrip** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:39:49

I think that the real time voice comunications would be MUCH better than
Text based. And I am sure that there are some guys out there that would like
to be a crew chief I suppose. But, I wouldn't be interested in being a crew
chief at all. I would much rather drive my own car than watch someone elses.
But that is just me. :o)

- Isotrip?

by **Remco Moe** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:18:19

<snip>

Good idea! However, I can think of some more improvement....

What I would like is the possibility to develop your own car. The
chassis, engine, tyres, gearbox, electronics, suspension do get a
number of attributes, and you can adjust them, for example, between
performance and reliability. Attributes like bore, stroke, exhaust
length, etc.

Now combine this with online play and teams....it wil not only be a
matter of being the fastest driver, you can also be the best designer!
<g>

Remco

by **Stephen F** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:39:10

So, like what "X-Car could have been..."

I'm an engineer, so I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Stephen

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:06:33

> What if instead of the computer auto-configuring.... you had another "real
> person" on the other end of the in-game voice communications? This person
> would them adjust your settings based on your on-track feedback, and have
> those changes waiting for you the next stop. This person is your real-time
> virtua crew chief.

nice idea, but do you think anyone would want to do this? being a
virtual crew chief sounds unbelievably boring to me at least.

--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
gitaren er en sjingke

by **The Enigmatic O** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:18:26

You really are a ***ing ***, aren't you?

-Tim

by **jason moy** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 05:38:00

> In all honesty, what you are suggesting is something far more difficult than
> you might imagine. The person who could code that would basically put crew
> chiefs out of a job in real life. The problem is that for certain anomalies
> in handling, 6 different settings could be changed (you can get rid of
> oversteer by adjusting a wide number of different settings as an example).
> The trick is to make the right decision, which will not adversely affect
> other handling characteristics. In an easy world (which it is not) it would
> only be 1 setting you change. In real-life applications, it can be a fine
> balance of combination settings for multiple parameters.

A driver who understood car setups would hold an advantage over one
who relied on the virtual crew chief. The fixes the auto crew chief
would implement for different conditions could be easily outlined.
Just as in real life someone like Rusty Wallace who understands
suspension changes would have an advantage by making specific
requests, whereas someone who constantly relied on the crew chief
would have to deal with a car that sometimes handled worse than when
you started. Which also happens in real life.

I think a really simplistic virtual crew chief would be extremely
cool. I also think that Papy should add some realistic telemetry to
the Nascar series, since teams do employ blackbox-type equipment
during testing sessions. You could disable it during race weekends or
something to keep it realistic.

Jason

by **Doug Millike** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:13:23

Why not both -- defaults to AI or you specify an address where the software
can find the human crew chief? If the human crew chief had access to good
race data (lap times on other cars, changes in weather, etc, etc.) it would
not be boring--assuming that you have the right kind of mind for this job!!
Just figuring fuel use (for example) depending on how much your driver has
been drafting, and then deciding when to stop for gas is quite a challenge,
as is the 2 vs 4 tire-change choice.

> > What if instead of the computer auto-configuring.... you had another "real
> > person" on the other end of the in-game voice communications? This person
> > would them adjust your settings based on your on-track feedback, and have
> > those changes waiting for you the next stop. This person is your real-time
> > virtua crew chief.

> nice idea, but do you think anyone would want to do this? being a
> virtual crew chief sounds unbelievably boring to me at least.

> --
> Gunnar
> #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
> gitaren er en sjingke

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:37:53

If the human crew chief could spectate while communicating it wouldn't
be that boring. At least for a gearhead like me. ;o)

> > What if instead of the computer auto-configuring.... you had another
"real
> > person" on the other end of the in-game voice communications? This
person
> > would them adjust your settings based on your on-track feedback, and
have
> > those changes waiting for you the next stop. This person is your
real-time
> > virtua crew chief.

> nice idea, but do you think anyone would want to do this? being a
> virtual crew chief sounds unbelievably boring to me at least.

> --
> Gunnar
> #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8
Kibo: 2
> gitaren er en sjingke

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:41:46

Agreed, that would be awesome - for SOME of us. Unfortunately probably
not enough of us. But anyway I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of
the "do-it-yourself" sims in development around here eventually gives us
that capability.

> > Good idea! However, I can think of some more improvement....

> > What I would like is the possibility to develop your own car. The
> > chassis, engine, tyres, gearbox, electronics, suspension do get a
> > number of attributes, and you can adjust them, for example, between
> > performance and reliability. Attributes like bore, stroke, exhaust
> > length, etc.

> > Now combine this with online play and teams....it wil not only be a
> > matter of being the fastest driver, you can also be the best
designer!
> > <g>

> So, like what "X-Car could have been..."

> I'm an engineer, so I would buy it in a heartbeat.

> Stephen

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:43:26

You really are determined to end up in a lot of killfiles aren't you?
Some of us around here actually like Tom and appreciate his point of
view.

> >If you can't/don't want to/won't learn about the basics of race car
> >setups....run in "fixed setup" races....that's what they are for!

> You really are a ***ing ***, aren't you?

> -Tim

by **Joe6** » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:30:03

It's a great idea. I like the flexibility of sim racing, but don't
usually have the time to dedicate to master a realistic setup system.

rec.autos.simulators

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