rec.autos.simulators

by **MeatWate** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Hmmm....strange, but after playing GPL for months I returned to CPR and...it
was fun! Months ago I thought it sucked really bad, but once I had learned
to perfectly handle the car (thanks to GPL!) even the AI wasn't much of a
problem anymore (as long as you stay on the groove they react flawlessly).
Is there a possibility to setup the brake pedal to allow more travel before
locking the brakes? Are there still any CPR fans left?

Mea***er

www.mea***er.de

by **Swindell** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Okay, let me install it and see what happens. I was a CPR fan until F1RS, RS2
and GPL came along. I fear I won't like the results...

Hmm, now to clear a million megs from my HD...

Rob

by **Swindell** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Oh forget it, I mean, no yellows? I can't belive I came that close....
again....

Rob

by **Maps** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 01:25:24 +0100, "Mea***er"

>Hmmm....strange, but after playing GPL for months I returned to CPR and...it
>was fun! Months ago I thought it sucked really bad, but once I had learned
>to perfectly handle the car (thanks to GPL!) even the AI wasn't much of a
>problem anymore (as long as you stay on the groove they react flawlessly).
>Is there a possibility to setup the brake pedal to allow more travel before
>locking the brakes? Are there still any CPR fans left?

I tried using it the other day (inspired by the Homestead race, I
suppose), and realized just how bad the steering parameters are- and
no matter where I slid the two bars (non-linear and speed-proportional
adjustments), I never found a satisfactory setting to drive cleanly
around homestead. I don't think it is me- in GPL, I am in the 1:04s at
the Glenn, 1:28s at Monza, almost in the 1:25s at Zandvoort... I
couldn't even do a clean lap at Homestead.

I think there is a workable sim in there- but not the experience of
what puts it all together at MS to achieve something like GPL or even
ICR2. Sort of frustrating, really- I get the sense it could have been
a winner with just some attention to what sim users here could offer.

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

It is you. Myself and others were able to consistently lap within a few
tenths of the best time possible. The steering was precise. Each lap was
identical.

David G Fisher

>I tried using it the other day (inspired by the Homestead race, I
>suppose), and realized just how bad the steering parameters are- and
>no matter where I slid the two bars (non-linear and speed-proportional
>adjustments), I never found a satisfactory setting to drive cleanly
>around homestead. I don't think it is me- in GPL, I am in the 1:04s at
>the Glenn, 1:28s at Monza, almost in the 1:25s at Zandvoort... I
>couldn't even do a clean lap at Homestead.

by **Swindell** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Oh, but GUYS! There's no FULL COURSE yellows....! It makes me want to weep
...the fact that such a company as Microsoft can leave out a fundamental piece
of CART's competition and heritage! (Is that okay to say... heritage, I mean is
it correct?)

No point in arguing about the rest of it!

Rob

by **Pat Dotso** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

> It is you. Myself and others were able to consistently lap within a few
> tenths of the best time possible. The steering was precise. Each lap was
> identical.

It is your system. On my computer and others, steering was
horrible. As with other aspects of the apallingly bad CARTPR,
MS/TRI did not properly test the software on all common
system configurations.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **DAVI** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Well I have found someone I agree with on CPR in this newsgroup. Ovals
never seemed to be a problem, even running at Elkhart Lake it was easy to
keep car going straight down the long straights and to stay flat in 6th
thru the kink onthe back straight. that and running 1:31s at Elkhart you
need good steering.

Dave

> It is you. Myself and others were able to consistently lap within a few
> tenths of the best time possible. The steering was precise. Each lap was
> identical.

> David G Fisher

> >I tried using it the other day (inspired by the Homestead race, I
> >suppose), and realized just how bad the steering parameters are- and
> >no matter where I slid the two bars (non-linear and speed-proportional
> >adjustments), I never found a satisfactory setting to drive cleanly
> >around homestead. I don't think it is me- in GPL, I am in the 1:04s at
> >the Glenn, 1:28s at Monza, almost in the 1:25s at Zandvoort... I
> >couldn't even do a clean lap at Homestead.

by **DAVI** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

It runs very well on my PacBell P1 233mhz with no L2 cache. It got worlds
better graphics wise when I put in the Voodoo 2 Card too.

Dave

by **Ian Parke** » Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:00:00

My feelings about CPR :-
BTW both machines used the TRI Glide patch and the game was patched.
On my old P166 with a TM F1 wheel the steering was terrible, with my P2 333
and MS FF wheel it's tolerable, just doesnt seem as though the amount of
steering input has a proportionate effect on the road wheels, Ubi's sims,
GP2 and Papy sims all seems to model this accurately. It seems as though the
car pushes all the time.
The brake pedal requires more feel, we dont have pressure sensitive pedals
in a sim setup so a fraction of the pedal movement available will lock the
wheels solid making braking very difficult, the car will stop much faster
using the ABS feature, which IMHO is wrong. They should have used a system
where the further you depress the pedal the more "pressure" the game sees,
so that we could modulate it easier.
The graphics although they look OK, are very difficult to judge distances to
corners, sometimes you can't even see which way the corner is going to turn
until you're commited (Australia is a good example of this) also I think the
sense of speed is wrong, too fast. The front tyres (tires) look like
balloons.
The cars seem to float and dont seem "real"
The AI will try to drive through you if you spin even though they are on a
straight and can see you for a long time, they just wont give up until you
get out of the way, they will race hard from behind and then slow down for
you to catch them up.
Oh yes, No full course yellows :)
All IMHO.

--
Ian Parker

ICQ 21772592

by **Maps** » Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:43:53 -0500, "David G Fisher"

>It is you.

So you would say CPR did an adequate job on how the relate steering
input to car reaction, I take it.

Maybe I am just used to Papy and Crammond sims. But this one made me
work too hard to learn it's particular steering-to-car relationship.

What controller are you using?

>>I tried using it the other day (inspired by the Homestead race, I
>>suppose), and realized just how bad the steering parameters are- and
>>no matter where I slid the two bars (non-linear and speed-proportional
>>adjustments), I never found a satisfactory setting to drive cleanly
>>around homestead. I don't think it is me- in GPL, I am in the 1:04s at
>>the Glenn, 1:28s at Monza, almost in the 1:25s at Zandvoort... I
>>couldn't even do a clean lap at Homestead.

by **Maps** » Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:48:01 -0000, "Ian Parker"

>My feelings about CPR :-
>BTW both machines used the TRI Glide patch and the game was patched.
>On my old P166 with a TM F1 wheel the steering was terrible, with my P2 333
>and MS FF wheel it's tolerable, just doesnt seem as though the amount of
>steering input has a proportionate effect on the road wheels,

FF might indeed make it somewhat better, I'd think. After all, 1/2 of
racing is feel, and much of that is G force and road-feedback to the
wheel. I think this is why coming up with a very good or at least very
configurable non-linear steering algorithm is so crucial for sims-
because they don't have the feedback on the wheel. Well, until
recently ;-)

I don't think MS ended up with a good steering (and braking)
algorithm- sort of like a guitar amp that you just can't get sounding
right with the knobs ;-)

I think CPR was a sincere effort, and I am not bashing MS here. I
think the guys that put it together just didn't look closely enough at
what the top sim guys in the field had arrived at over the past
decade. If it would steer and brake in a manner consistent with the
other top sims, I'd use it a lot more.

by **Adam** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

>On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:48:01 -0000, "Ian Parker"

>>My feelings about CPR :-
>>BTW both machines used the TRI Glide patch and the game was patched.
>>On my old P166 with a TM F1 wheel the steering was terrible, with my P2
333
>>and MS FF wheel it's tolerable, just doesnt seem as though the amount of
>>steering input has a proportionate effect on the road wheels,

>FF might indeed make it somewhat better, I'd think. After all, 1/2 of
>racing is feel, and much of that is G force and road-feedback to the
>wheel. I think this is why coming up with a very good or at least very
>configurable non-linear steering algorithm is so crucial for sims-
>because they don't have the feedback on the wheel. Well, until
>recently ;-)

>I don't think MS ended up with a good steering (and braking)
>algorithm- sort of like a guitar amp that you just can't get sounding
>right with the knobs ;-)

>I think CPR was a sincere effort, and I am not bashing MS here. I
>think the guys that put it together just didn't look closely enough at
>what the top sim guys in the field had arrived at over the past
>decade. If it would steer and brake in a manner consistent with the
>other top sims, I'd use it a lot more.

It wasn't perfect, but it was still VERY good and had perhaps the most
detailed garage setup in any simulator to date!

Adam

by **Pat Dotso** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

> >I think CPR was a sincere effort, and I am not bashing MS here. I
> >think the guys that put it together just didn't look closely enough at
> >what the top sim guys in the field had arrived at over the past
> >decade. If it would steer and brake in a manner consistent with the
> >other top sims, I'd use it a lot more.

> It wasn't perfect, but it was still VERY good and had perhaps the most
> detailed garage setup in any simulator to date!

Without a readout of tire temps, those setup options
are almost pointless. How can you even set something
basic like tire camber without knowing what your tires
are doing?

NOTE: SCGT should take note of this as well...

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

by **Don Chapma** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

>It wasn't perfect, but it was still VERY good and had perhaps the most
>detailed garage setup in any simulator to date!

>Adam

Yeah, like the ability to measure tire temperatures. Doh!

Not to start the CPR debate again(its still installed on my hard drive
because of Arne Martin's great tracks - http://cart.gamestats.com/tracks/),
but I find it interesting that CPR has only been out for a year and a half,
but you can't find any new 1999 car sets being made for it, there are few
on-line or off-line racing leagues(if any), and most of the sites dedicated
to it have either disappeared completely or have ceased to publish any new
information. However, Indycar II (CART Racing) will be 4 years old this
Fall, and there are still sites, leagues, carsets, modifications, etc.,
galore.

After all the debating that went on with CPR's release and patch, I find
this the most definitive statement about the product.

Bring on CART 2000, please!

Don Chapman

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