rec.autos.simulators

Brian Kinkaid, who counts the days until the 1997 Knoxville Nationals

bnk29 on Hawaii

I would pay $100 for this without a second thought.

Brian,

Knoxville is awesome! Be sure to check out TNN on the night
of the 30th. The Outlaws season opener from Manzanita
in Phoneix, AZ is live!

Regards,
        ---Wayne.

Have to tell you: contact Sierra Customer Support...

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

: Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding
: the N3 wish list.  Are my  sentiments on target, or are the
: N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup
: options are concerned?

<snipped suggestions for more garage setup options>

I agree, this is one area that can be expanded/upgraded for a future
NASCAR release.  However, they need to be careful and make sure they can
create a product that can be as "complicated" and "in-depth" as the
"hardest" sim die-hard could want it and still allow it to be simple
enough for the the mechanically challenged.  I do think that Crammond
did a pretty good job on this front with the 3 different levels of setup
for GP2.

In order for some of these finer adjustments to really make alot of
sense, I think Papyrus needs to add other elements to the sim.  We need
variable track conditions (changing grooves during the race, weather
changes during the race), thus calling for minor/major adjustments in the
pits.  It would be nice to be able to tinker with fine chassis
adjustments, but if the track conditions stay the same from 1st practice
to the final lap of the race. . .  I want to be forced to have a ***
taken out or in during the race (hey, cut that out, I'm talking about
the springs here <g>).  I want to be forced to try all of the tweakings
I hear about during the races.  Maybe a little less tape on the front
since it's heating up?  But without varying track conditions, I'm not
sure that all of these garage tweakings are really that important.

Okay, now we have more garage/pit settings to worry about.  How about
adding a "chief-mechanic wizard"?  The driver says the car is fine going
into the turns and fine coming out, but it pushes in the middle.  The
"wizard" then recommends different things to change.

Of course, next we will want a separate engine development team, and a
opportunity to create different chassis designs. . .   Heck this will be
like the real evolution of NASCAR.  Pretty soon the days of Fireball
Roberts will be replaced by Penske/Hendrick/Roush/ organizations and
the little guy won't be able to "sim-race" any more.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes, I like the idea of having a wizard to recommend things to change.  But
how about a spotter/crew cheif that points out wether your loose going into
the turns or looks like you're lacking acceleration coming out of the
turns.  Or pushing in the middle, etc.  I have a hard time trying to figure
out if my car is loose or tight.  I know sometimes when it is overly loose
as the back end will spin around.  But when it is close to being neutral,
the car just seems to jump around or squeak and then not squeak the tires.

Speaking of setup changes...I need to know what is the best amount to
change each setting to see an effect.

Shocks in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%, 25%?  
Spoiler in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%?  
Air Pressure in increments of 1, 2, 5, 10 psi?  
Wedge in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs?  
Fr-rr bais in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs?  
Left-Right bias in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs?
---
()  http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso           ()  Dominic Tuso
()  http://www.nicad.com/                    ()  For you NiCd needs
()  http://www.teleport.com/~cramark         ()  R/C car racing club
()  http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml ()  R/C car racing club

Jim,

I would like to see an IRL update to Indycar 2.  This would include all
the IRL tracks as well as the new IRL chasis, but would also include
everything in icr2 or would be backwards compatible.  I want to be able
to race my CART Indycar on all the IRL tracks if I want to.  I hate the
IRL, but I want their tracks.

Another option would be a game with an Indycar career mode.  You can
start with a certain budget, depending on if you are going the "easy"
"medium" or "hard" level.  You could start with an Indylights car, and
race their schedule, and get a shot at the CART series based on your
performance.  It would have maybe a choice of offers from differnt
teams, ranging from a seat with Penske to a small limited budget team,
depending on the diffculty level you pick and your performance in Indy
lights.  This would also randomly distribute the quality of cars and
engines from year to year, maybe the Penske was *** this year, but
next year the Reynard / Honda is better.  Maybe I could find sponsorship
and start my own team, maybe even build my own car and enter into an
engine development program.  Basically, I want money management and
career options.  Similar to a combination of Indycar2 and grand Prix
manager.

Mike

Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding
the N3 wish list.  Are my  sentiments on target, or are the
N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup
options are concerned?

Greetings,

I just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth.  Great job
on N2, I consider it a huge improvement in driving fun over
N1.

As far as my wish list, I'll confine it to the garage area.
The simulation would improve 100%, in my eyes, with more
freedom in changing the car settings.  I would like to see
the "shocks" setting broken up into separate adjustments
for "springs" and "damping."  Specifically, the low speed
compression and rebound damping settings.  These settings
drastically effect the precieved driving feel of the car
and would add immensely to the overall satisfaction of
the simulation.  Also, the ability to adjust the sway bar
and panhard rod would be a real benefit to the game.  I
would also like to have the stagger adjustment back, though
I assume you deleted it because of the rules in the real
NASCAR series.

I know that the adjustment I've mentioned would, most likely,
make the driving model you use very complex.  I feel,
however, that the setup options should be the area overhauled
in N3.  The differences between N1 and N2 are teriffic, but
it seems that the garage was left out.  Creating as accurate
a driving model as possible, I believe, should be one of,
if not THE highest concern for future versions on Papyrus
racing games.

I hope that you find my suggestions helpful and that they
are already included in the planning for N3.  My feelings
are the same for any future versions of IndyCar Racing.

Sincerely,

Chris Cavin

: Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding
: the N3 wish list.  Are my  sentiments on target, or are the
: N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup
: options are concerned?

<snipped suggestions for more garage setup options>

I agree, this is one area that can be expanded/upgraded for a future
NASCAR release.  However, they need to be careful and make sure they can
create a product that can be as "complicated" and "in-depth" as the
"hardest" sim die-hard could want it and still allow it to be simple
enough for the the mechanically challenged.  I do think that Crammond
did a pretty good job on this front with the 3 different levels of setup
for GP2.

In order for some of these finer adjustments to really make alot of
sense, I think Papyrus needs to add other elements to the sim.  We need
variable track conditions (changing grooves during the race, weather
changes during the race), thus calling for minor/major adjustments in the
pits.  It would be nice to be able to tinker with fine chassis
adjustments, but if the track conditions stay the same from 1st practice
to the final lap of the race. . .  I want to be forced to have a ***
taken out or in during the race (hey, cut that out, I'm talking about
the springs here <g>).  I want to be forced to try all of the tweakings
I hear about during the races.  Maybe a little less tape on the front
since it's heating up?  But without varying track conditions, I'm not
sure that all of these garage tweakings are really that important.

Okay, now we have more garage/pit settings to worry about.  How about
adding a "chief-mechanic wizard"?  The driver says the car is fine going
into the turns and fine coming out, but it pushes in the middle.  The
"wizard" then recommends different things to change.

Of course, next we will want a separate engine development team, and a
opportunity to create different chassis designs. . .   Heck this will be
like the real evolution of NASCAR.  Pretty soon the days of Fireball
Roberts will be replaced by Penske/Hendrick/Roush/ organizations and
the little guy won't be able to "sim-race" any more.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

If you like ONLY ovals then go race Nascar, if only road courses then F1,
CART has the challenge of mastering both.

Well just to keep this on subject for r.a.s. if we do get an IRL pack
they have to come up with a way to gives the outrageous amount of turbo
boost that made the IRL races so fun to watch. (Hint- unfairly fast IRL team
whose cars had the tendency to end the race in a big plume of smoking
blown engines due to TG allowing them to run much more boost than the other
teams)

Cheers.

--John
--
 Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks.
------------------------------+--------------------------

  Seattle, Washington USA.    |    http://www.cool.com/~jsilva

Yes, I like the idea of having a wizard to recommend things to change.  But
how about a spotter/crew cheif that points out wether your loose going into
the turns or looks like you're lacking acceleration coming out of the
turns.  Or pushing in the middle, etc.  I have a hard time trying to figure
out if my car is loose or tight.  I know sometimes when it is overly loose
as the back end will spin around.  But when it is close to being neutral,
the car just seems to jump around or squeak and then not squeak the tires.

Speaking of setup changes...I need to know what is the best amount to
change each setting to see an effect.

Shocks in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%, 25%?  
Spoiler in increments of 1%, 5%, 10%?  
Air Pressure in increments of 1, 2, 5, 10 psi?  
Wedge in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs?  
Fr-rr bais in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs?  
Left-Right bias in increments of 5, 10, 25, 50 lbs?
---
()  http://www.pacifier.com/~dtuso           ()  Dominic Tuso
()  http://www.nicad.com/                    ()  For you NiCd needs
()  http://www.teleport.com/~cramark         ()  R/C car racing club
()  http://www.teleport.com/~lzwz/rcsr.htlml ()  R/C car racing club

Jim,

I would like to see an IRL update to Indycar 2.  This would include all
the IRL tracks as well as the new IRL chasis, but would also include
everything in icr2 or would be backwards compatible.  I want to be able
to race my CART Indycar on all the IRL tracks if I want to.  I hate the
IRL, but I want their tracks.

Another option would be a game with an Indycar career mode.  You can
start with a certain budget, depending on if you are going the "easy"
"medium" or "hard" level.  You could start with an Indylights car, and
race their schedule, and get a shot at the CART series based on your
performance.  It would have maybe a choice of offers from differnt
teams, ranging from a seat with Penske to a small limited budget team,
depending on the diffculty level you pick and your performance in Indy
lights.  This would also randomly distribute the quality of cars and
engines from year to year, maybe the Penske was *** this year, but
next year the Reynard / Honda is better.  Maybe I could find sponsorship
and start my own team, maybe even build my own car and enter into an
engine development program.  Basically, I want money management and
career options.  Similar to a combination of Indycar2 and grand Prix
manager.

Mike

Jim,

Thank you for the great games, bugs and all!  I am really enjoying N2.
Also, thanks for supporting r.a.s..  

I would really like to see dirt track racing of some sort (outlaw,
sprint, etc.) in one of your new sims.  Dirt tracks have been part of
racing in The South for many years.  Lots of great Winston Cup
personalities got their start on dirt.  

I remember as a kid (1960's) seeing NASCAR sanctioned racing on 1/2 mile
dirt tracks around C***te, NC.  I believe*** Hutcherson and Tiny
Lund were among the usual "big name" drivers to show up on dirt.  This
might be a great addition to a NASCAR nostalgia series.

If you do this, remember to model the tracks going from wet, muddy, and
very slick to dusty with pot holes where it "beats out" after many laps.

Thanks again.

Tony Joy

<snip>

Goofy!? That was Pluto's pal was it not?

I'd rather have a few laps of take one road course over 10 ovals any day
of the week and twice on Sundays. The only really fun ovals are Phoenix,
Nazareth and Pocono.

Cheers!
John

                     _________________________________
         __    _____|                                 |_____    __
________|  |__|    :|           John Wallace          |     |__|  |________

  \    :|  |::|    :|        Team WW Racing TSW       |     |::|  |     /
    >  :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |   <
  /    :|__|::|____/       * Sim Racing News *         \____|::|__|     \
/______:/  \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/  \._____\
               http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews