rec.autos.simulators

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Rick

      It must be real fun being a popular game developer.  It was obvious
this would happen.  First they get the mob screaming for the game to come
out, then the mob screaming they should have waited.

     N2 isn't perfect, but it's pretty neat.

                               bob

I agree, I think the game is pretty cool too.  Is there a list of known
bugs?  I was at http://www.sierra.com/papyrus and then clicked on support
but was unable to find a bug list.  Can someone please reply with their bug
list.

Curtis J. Matz

don

Rick, nice to see another new user on RAS! Either that our you are just too
blind or stupid to read previous posts! Jim Sokoloff, is developing Nascar 3 as per
his posts! He was involved in Nascar Racing for the Play Station, no where have I
seen him post that he is actively involved in Nascar 2! There are many coders that
are still working on fixes to Nascar2 perhaps your un-educated answers will improve
in the future! Some of us appreciate the fact that he is involving this news group
in things we would like to see in the future so that we don't end up with the ***ing
and complaining. In case you don't realise these products take a couple of years to
develope and when we do get a chance to have some say, then we get to listen to you
instead ranting at the wrong person! Yes, there are bugs and there are problems with
Nas2 but perhaps complaining to the right person might be more useful!

Regards

Nice to hear from another RAS reader.  I'm just writing to let you know
that I am neither blind nor stupid, and have been reading these posts
since I bought Nascar 1 last summer.  If you will check page 204 of the
Nascar 2 manual (PC version) you will find the name Jim Sokoloff in the
credits for the game and in the on-screen credits at the end of the game.
Also, according to Dejanews Mr. Sokoloff has posted 56 messages here on
RAS since December 1st, with the majority of them related to the PC version
of the game.  Jim's posts are very useful and informative, and I appreciate
his involvement in the newsgroup.  My post was addressed to Jim, but
directed at Sierra/Papyrus as well.  If you know the name of the "right
person" to complain to, please post it here on RAS.  

As for my "ranting at the wrong person", if you would re-read my
original post you will find that I:

        1. Gave Jim/Sierra/Papyrus a compliment on the game so far
        2. Gave them my money
        3. Expressed my wishes for what needs to be done

If you don't care for my blind, stupid, ***ing, complaining, ranting
posts please add my name to your kill file.

Merry Christmas
Rick

On Wed, 25 Dec 1996 02:34:20 +0000, Rick Fisk

I'm not currently working on NASCAR 2 (I was one of many
"pinch-hitters" during the late stages of development, and am now on
another project.) My goal is to make that other project the best that
it can be when it comes out. If asked by Papyrus management, I'll go
work on something in NASCAR 2 again for the patch(es). The feedback I
was asking for was what to include in future racing sims, as I have
some direct impact on that. The response you gave related solely to
NASCAR 2, and Pete reacted to that.

I know NASCAR 2 isn't perfect, but I'm proud of the work the rest of
the team did on the product (I'm not claiming much credit for anything
in the game, but I'll accept my full share of blame for rough edges.)
We are working on some important fixes, and they will be released as
soon as they are done, and we've had a chance to test them. I can't
comment on what is and isn't getting fixed in the first round of
patches or when they'll be available, but I can assure you that the
patch for NASCAR 2 is not getting the same treatment as ICR 2 got.

---Jim Sokoloff, Papyrus

<snip>
: I know NASCAR 2 isn't perfect, but I'm proud of the work the rest of
: the team did on the product (I'm not claiming much credit for anything
: in the game, but I'll accept my full share of blame for rough edges.)
: We are working on some important fixes, and they will be released as
: soon as they are done, and we've had a chance to test them. I can't
: comment on what is and isn't getting fixed in the first round of
: patches or when they'll be available, but I can assure you that the
: patch for NASCAR 2 is not getting the same treatment as ICR 2 got.

And rightly so.  You all should be proud!  I am thoroughly enjoying
NASCAR2, (flaws 'n all).  There have been some major strides over
NASCAR1. Some of which were borrowed from ICR2 and some which improve
over it.  I'm afraid that some of these improvements are too subtle for
the majority of the users to recognize.  I am very impressed in the
improvement of the "car-handling".  I can almost feel the car settling
in to a turn.  Watkins Glen is a great example of this.  The car doesn't
just "slide" into the next turn.  I can sense the weight shifting and
the tires/shocks just beginning to take hold.  Great job!  

The AI has been greatly enhanced in their ability to do "close" racing.  
They still aren't perfect, but hey they are robots not humans.  Last
night I did a 33% race against 100% AI at the Glen.  For laps Ricky Rudd
and I were in a heated battle.  I kept following close on his tail, just
waiting for the perfect time to make a move.  I would slip underneath
him coming through Turn 11 (AI have trouble taking this corner right).  
We would drag-race down past the start/finish line.  I would head for
the inside of Turn 1 and Ricky would take the outside, door by door.  He
would pass, I would follow for a couple more laps.  I get under him going
into Turn 10 and cook right up to turn 1.  I end up going in too hot and
Ricky would slide right under me.  A couple more laps of my dogging his
bumper and I brave a pass going into the inner loop.  I'm a little loose
going through, but Ricky lays back so as not to get into me.  Comes up on
the outside while we go through Turn 9.  But here the AI programming slips
and instead of keeping his outside line he decides to pin me to the
right-hand guard rail.  Sure, I'm pissed.  But, hey, I haven't experienced
this kinda racing against a computer before.  I'll just be more careful
next time (and hope that you guys work on cleaning up some of these rough
AI edges).

I love the curbs in the Glen.  Sure would be nice to have them in IndyCar
Racing 3 (hint, hint).  Yeh, I know you are working on NASCAR3. Just
pass the word along.

Thanks for a great job and look forward to timely fixes to NASCAR2.
Also thanks again for braving the unruly world of usenet and keeping us
posted!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

--
Ed

it!<<<

Tell them Rick, I'll back ya 100%. That's 90% more than than this game is.

SG

You're right, they SELL THEM.

SG

Here's a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jim Sokoloff regarding
the N3 wish list.  Are my  sentiments on target, or are the
N2 bunch and the GP2/ICR2 bunch of different minds when setup
options are concerned?

Greetings,

I just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth.  Great job
on N2, I consider it a huge improvement in driving fun over
N1.

As far as my wish list, I'll confine it to the garage area.
The simulation would improve 100%, in my eyes, with more
freedom in changing the car settings.  I would like to see
the "shocks" setting broken up into separate adjustments
for "springs" and "damping."  Specifically, the low speed
compression and rebound damping settings.  These settings
drastically effect the precieved driving feel of the car
and would add immensely to the overall satisfaction of
the simulation.  Also, the ability to adjust the sway bar
and panhard rod would be a real benefit to the game.  I
would also like to have the stagger adjustment back, though
I assume you deleted it because of the rules in the real
NASCAR series.

I know that the adjustment I've mentioned would, most likely,
make the driving model you use very complex.  I feel,
however, that the setup options should be the area overhauled
in N3.  The differences between N1 and N2 are teriffic, but
it seems that the garage was left out.  Creating as accurate
a driving model as possible, I believe, should be one of,
if not THE highest concern for future versions on Papyrus
racing games.

I hope that you find my suggestions helpful and that they
are already included in the planning for N3.  My feelings
are the same for any future versions of IndyCar Racing.

Sincerely,

Chris Cavin

| The feedback I
| was asking for was what to include in future racing sims, as I have
| some direct impact on that.

Indycar, Indycar, Indycar!!! Don't give up the Indycar line! Sierra
once claimed (and sort of proved, with their treatment of ICR2
customers starting around this time last year) that they had no
interest in continuing the Indycar line, but as we've seen, things can
change, and I hope this is one of them.

First off, please do an Indycar port to PSX (Sony Playstation). NASCAR
for playstation is a lot more fun than it was on my 486dx100, and with
NASCAR by Papy, F-1 by Psygnosis, and then ICR, all for PSX, I'd
basically never have to upgrade my computer! $150 for a playstation
instead of $2500 for a computer is not a bad alternative.

Fact is, everybody and their brother is working on F1 sims. But there
simply isn't anyone else I know of with any good Indy sims- Andretti
Racing just didn't cut it for me. Papy had the market, it seems a
little crazy to just let it slide.

| patches or when they'll be available, but I can assure you that the
| patch for NASCAR 2 is not getting the same treatment as ICR 2 got.

Hey Jim- in all the junk over the ICR2 stuff, I basically repressed
the whole mess and never went ahead and returned my CD (original ICR2
CD) for the upgraded one, as Rick Genter had promised. Is the options
still available?