rec.autos.simulators

by **Joe L** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 02:39:55

For years now I have been pretty deep into the Military Flight Sims but
I am new to Racing. I have a pretty good joystick/throttle setup that I got
for the flight sims and I figured it would do fine for NASCAR 4. I havent
had that much time to put into NASCAR 4 and as of right now I stink This
does not discourage me because new guys are supposed to stink but I am
wondering if trying to use this joystick is going to cause me to stink a lot
more than I should for a lot longer than I need to.
I have never used a wheel anywhere but I figured the style of controler
(joystick, steering wheel, flight yoke, whatever) was strictly personal
preference and no one style was really any better than the other for any
kind of game. Given enough practice I figured I could drive as well as any
with my "Fancy Joystick" and you could fly with the best with your "Fancy
Steering Wheel". It might look a little wierd as I "Fly my Chevy" and you
"Drive your F-18" but so what?
I thought of getting a wheel but decided against it when I looked at
all the room I *dont* have on this desk. "Besides", (I said to myself) "Why
spend the money and crowd up the desk even more if the wheel is not REALLY
any better than the joystick?" But stinking as much as I do for as long as I
have got me to thinking about it again. I know a wheel is no magic bar of
soap that will instantly have me smelling spring-time fresh but am I making
a mistake thinking a wheel will not help? I dont know how good I will ever
be with the Racing Sims but I want to get as good as I can. Do I need a
wheel?

by **Brett C. Camma** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 03:21:57

Do you have some decent rudder pedals you can use for throttle and
brake? The regular CH ones are highly regarded. It's
tough-to-impossible to drive well using the same joystick to brake
*and* steer. Some folks use a joystick in their off hand for
throttle/brake and others use pedals. Most of the GPL world records
have been done with a joystick. (doesn't that make you feel a lot
better? LOL)

A good force feedback wheel *is* ***y wonderful, though, IMO.

Make sure your controller setup, if possible, is configured in the sim
for "Joystick" or "Non-Linear. That'll give you some slower response
at center so the car doesn't react to your eye movements. Aids
drivability considerably...

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack

(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

by **Gerry Aitke** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 03:20:33

Joe, go get a wheel mate :). Imagine flying an F-16 with a wheel, that
would really stink right? Your racing sims will be much more fun, hehe
right tool for the right job etc.

Good luck

Gerry

"I'm completely alone in my views." -- David G Fisher

by **Pierre Robitaill** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 03:53:08

> Do you have some decent rudder pedals you can use for throttle and
> brake? The regular CH ones are highly regarded. It's
> tough-to-impossible to drive well using the same joystick to brake
> *and* steer. Some folks use a joystick in their off hand for
> throttle/brake and others use pedals. Most of the GPL world records
> have been done with a joystick. (doesn't that make you feel a lot
> better? LOL)

That might have been true at one time, but no longer. A quick
glance at Schubi's site shows that on all the original GPL
tracks, only one top-10 time was set with a joystick (9th spot
at Spa), all the others are with a wheel.

by **ra300** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 07:07:02

A wheel makes a big difference.

by pw » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:40:11

On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 18:20:33 +0000, Gerry Aitken

>Joe, go get a wheel mate :). Imagine flying an F-16 with a wheel,

LOL! Good point!

Any recommendations for Joe and I?. I don't know about Joe, but I
don't want to spend over a $100. But, the MicroSoft SideWinder FF
looks good! Never used FF before, but I bet I would get sick of it.

I have a stick, throttle, and pedals already hooked up to my PC
gamecard (my soundcard, Diamond MX300, doesn't have enough amps to
support my stick).

-pw

by **Joe L** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:17:50

Thanks to all for the replies. "go get a wheel mate" seems to be the
forming consensus. Everyone is saying the wheel helps, the only disagreement
is how much.
I also would like some advice on which wheel. I am also looking for
cheap. Force Feedback dosent mean much to me one way or the other.
I was looking at the Saitek Wheel because of it's small size but such
reviews as I have seen on it say the construction is cheap and the pedals
have such a short throw from "off" to "full" as to be only slightly more
usefull than pushbuttons. $30 gameport $30 USB
Thrustmaster NASCAR PRO 2 has some good reviews but looks like it takes
up a LOT of room. Those plastic pedals dont look any too sturdy either. I
got size 13 feet. One moment of excitment and "crunch!" by-by pedals. $60
USB

These are the only two I found any info on, any comments on these? any
recomendations for something else?

> On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 18:20:33 +0000, Gerry Aitken

> >Joe, go get a wheel mate :). Imagine flying an F-16 with a wheel,

> LOL! Good point!

> Any recommendations for Joe and I?. I don't know about Joe, but I
> don't want to spend over a $100. But, the MicroSoft SideWinder FF
> looks good! Never used FF before, but I bet I would get sick of it.

> I have a stick, throttle, and pedals already hooked up to my PC
> gamecard (my soundcard, Diamond MX300, doesn't have enough amps to
> support my stick).

by **Brett C. Camma** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:37:33

On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:53:08 -0500, Pierre Robitaille

>That might have been true at one time, but no longer. A quick
>glance at Schubi's site shows that on all the original GPL
>tracks, only one top-10 time was set with a joystick (9th spot
>at Spa), all the others are with a wheel.

Okay, how about: "For the longest time, all of the world records for
GPL were held by people using joysticks."

Getting a little ***about accuracy, aren't we? T'was hardly one of
those "life-and-death" sort of communication situations.

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack

(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

by **Gerry Aitke** » Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:04:22

> Getting a little ***about accuracy, aren't we? T'was hardly one of
> those "life-and-death" sort of communication situations.

I should point out that it's against the Geneva Convention to drive GPL
with a joystick in F10! Anyone doing so is committing a CRIME against
sim racing, imho of course ;).

Cheers

Gerry

by **Razorbac** » Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:01:25

I drove for 4 years with a joystick. Finally got a Logitech Wingman
GPL FF.

At first I was 100 times better with the stick.. but after some time
you begin to realize how much easier it is to drive with the wheel.
The FF really gives you an idea of when you get loose and the wheel
allows you to recover from bumps, spins and looseness much better than
with a stick. I also find that I don't have to use the brakes as much
since I got the wheel. I don't know why that is though.. :)

RB

>On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:53:08 -0500, Pierre Robitaille

>>That might have been true at one time, but no longer. A quick
>>glance at Schubi's site shows that on all the original GPL
>>tracks, only one top-10 time was set with a joystick (9th spot
>>at Spa), all the others are with a wheel.

>Okay, how about: "For the longest time, all of the world records for
>GPL were held by people using joysticks."

>Getting a little ***about accuracy, aren't we? T'was hardly one of
>those "life-and-death" sort of communication situations.

>Regards,
>Brett C. Cammack

>(remove the DOTs from my return address to reply privately)

by **Jon Wille** » Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:39:11

You may manage to be competitive with a joystick, especially if you
pair it with your flight sim rudder pedals, but a wheel really helps
the immersion factor.

Force feedback can also aid immersion. I like it in Viper Racing,
Grand Prix Legends, and Porsche Unleashed. I love it in Mobil 1 Rally
Championship. I'm not thrilled with it in NASCAR Racing 3 or 4. I
have the Logitech Wingman Formula Force. I prefer its cable-driven
design to the gear-driven Formula Force GP and MS Sidewinder.

One thing that has bothered me about the LWFF is the 180-degree
travel. I can't make the hairpins in Grand Prix Legends with the
default setups, unless I enable the "steering hack," which greatly
increases wheel lock at low speeds. Similarly, I feel like I have to
set the linearity slider close to 50% in NASCAR games. I suspect that
a 270-degree wheel would be better.

> Thanks to all for the replies. "go get a wheel mate" seems to be the
>forming consensus. Everyone is saying the wheel helps, the only disagreement
>is how much.
> I also would like some advice on which wheel. I am also looking for
>cheap. Force Feedback dosent mean much to me one way or the other.

--
Jon Willeke <j dot willeke at verizon dot net>

by **Mark S. Everett, PM** » Thu, 15 Mar 2001 05:32:45

I was in the same boat you were in. I bought a CH Virtual Pilot Pro to
use as a steering wheel in F1 sims, with my CH Pro Pedals set in Car
mode.

A while ago, I got a Logitech FF wheel and pedals. It works pretty well
but it's noisy and I don't care for FF.

I just spent $49 for the Microsoft Precision Pro and I like it alot.
It's USB, so it doesn't interfere with your gameport. The centering
spring is strong and progressive, so as you turn in, you do feel some
resistance. The pedals feel good too - the throttle is sensitive enough
to be feathered. On some website, I saw a kit from a Japanese company
that adds a real MOMO wheel to it, plus makes the pedals even better. A
steal for about $800!

Mark

> On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 18:20:33 +0000, Gerry Aitken

> >Joe, go get a wheel mate :). Imagine flying an F-16 with a wheel,

> LOL! Good point!

> Any recommendations for Joe and I?. I don't know about Joe, but I
> don't want to spend over a $100. But, the MicroSoft SideWinder FF
> looks good! Never used FF before, but I bet I would get sick of it.

> I have a stick, throttle, and pedals already hooked up to my PC
> gamecard (my soundcard, Diamond MX300, doesn't have enough amps to
> support my stick).

> -pw

> > that
> >would really stink right? Your racing sims will be much more fun, hehe
> >right tool for the right job etc.

> >Good luck

> >Gerry

> >"I'm completely alone in my views." -- David G Fisher

mark.everett.vcf
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rec.autos.simulators

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