rec.autos.simulators

by **Don Wilsh** » Sat, 05 Jul 1997 04:00:00

Drivers:

Great here is an update from TEN NASCAR Project Manager, Sean
Butcher!!!!

Read it and wheep.... I was wondering if PAPRYUS got a sign up free
for all of us that signed up for TEN with the NASCAR 2 release... I
cant
figure they would have done that for free. I apologize to all the IVGA
MEMBERS that I recommended that you sign up. Jan or Feb or now... Well
you read it for yourself, but for sure its August/Sept/Oct/Nov or 1998
if
at all.

Don Wilshe, IVGA

==================================================================================================================

July 3, 1997
A lot has happened since my last update. We now have
a game running on a Solaris server, which can be launched from the TEN
software, and yes, we can race! We are currently in the process of
eliminating bugs, trying to make sure that all the game creation options
work as they are supposed to, and that the game is stable and reports
back all the information needed. Development is progressing steadily,
but continues to take somewhat longer than original estimates. We have
set certain stability and performance requirements that the game needs
to achieve. TEN and Papyrus want this product to succeed, so we have set
extremely high standards for it. TEN and Papyrus are in the process of
trying to meet these requirements but we don't have a firm date for when
they will be met (we are mostly tuning and bug hunting). The upshot of
this is that a late July release is unlikely. Currently, we can't give a
prediction of the release date until these requirements are met. Please
bear with us. We'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

Sean Butcher

==================================================================================================================

Gee... Why didnt they just port over HAWAII's NASCAR 1 it wasnt that
bad....

by **Rich Sco** » Sun, 06 Jul 1997 04:00:00

As a prior developer you well know that programming can sometimes be
a very time-insensitive process. This is something that's being
'developed' in-house at TEN. I think it WILL come out, but I also
think TEN was wrong to start advertising 'vaporware'. Unfortunately,
in the age of selling products that don't yet exist, companies are
more worried about perception, then in reality.

Microsoft has mastered the process of marketing products that
don't exist. I wish companies would stop this practice, but I suppose
it's here to stay. Hints are one thing, marketing is another...

Rich

I apologize to all the IVGA

by **Paul Carillo** » Mon, 07 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> As a prior developer you well know that programming can sometimes be
> a very time-insensitive process. This is something that's being
> 'developed' in-house at TEN. I think it WILL come out, but I also
> think TEN was wrong to start advertising 'vaporware'. Unfortunately,
> in the age of selling products that don't yet exist, companies are
> more worried about perception, then in reality.

> Microsoft has mastered the process of marketing products that
> don't exist. I wish companies would stop this practice, but I suppose
> it's here to stay. Hints are one thing, marketing is another...

> Rich

> I apologize to all the IVGA
> >MEMBERS that I recommended that you sign up. Jan or Feb or now... Well
> >you read it for yourself, but for sure its August/Sept/Oct/Nov or 1998
> >if
> >at all.

> >Don Wilshe, IVGA

> > Please
> >bear with us. We'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

> >Sean Butcher

> >==================================================================================================================

Well in the mean Time TEN is making a fortune off of us since we all
signed on at the first of the year .We are just paying for a spot I
guess since I have no other use for TEN.I think we need to get some type
of refund.Just a Thought
--
Paul Carillon
http://members.aol.com/sschevy454
http://www.oilout.com/nros/hts/
http://www2.netwide.net/n2ros/midwest/default.asp

by **G Avell** » Mon, 07 Jul 1997 04:00:00

Have to agree with you Paul. I believed TENs' advertising back in December
during their membership drive and signed up. Seven months of paying was
reasonable enough time to expect some sort of explanation or progress.
The answer to my post was..." well you can quit and rejoin when NROS starts,
at a higher rate". Great answer, the type that would get one of my employees
fired on the spot if they dared use it on a customer.
That this type of marketing is the status quo doesn't make it right. They
really should have remained quiet on it. Sure it would have made some mad,
( what doesn't ?) but at least it wouldn't have cost a lot of us 105 bucks
just to be told to quit and rejoin.

Regards,
Greg Avella

by **Handy^ma** » Tue, 08 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> > Well in the mean Time TEN is making a fortune off of us since we all
> >signed on at the first of the year .We are just paying for a spot I
> >guess since I have no other use for TEN.I think we need to get some type
> >of refund.Just a Thought
> >--
> >Paul Carillon

> Have to agree with you Paul. I believed TENs' advertising back in December
> during their membership drive and signed up. Seven months of paying was
> reasonable enough time to expect some sort of explanation or progress.
> The answer to my post was..." well you can quit and rejoin when NROS starts,
> at a higher rate". Great answer, the type that would get one of my employees
> fired on the spot if they dared use it on a customer.
> That this type of marketing is the status quo doesn't make it right. They
> really should have remained quiet on it. Sure it would have made some mad,
> ( what doesn't ?) but at least it wouldn't have cost a lot of us 105 bucks
> just to be told to quit and rejoin.

> Regards,
> Greg Avella

Wanna light a fire under the ole boys??? get a class action suit going
against them...
I bet they wont be near as Smug when faced with paying back all the
money they received
to date.... hell, it Worked for AOL subscribers,,,,and Aol has gotten
Much better since.
I still remember when I first got NR2...I did the sign up
thing,,,,searched all over the web,,,,,could not BELIEVE that it wasnt
happening yet,,,,and finally decided it was just a higly planned money
scam,,,,apparently... (havent seen anything to disprove me, yet)
--
Sit down,,Strap in,,Shut up,,Hang on,,Go fast,,Turn left,,Kiss Trophy
Girl
GGGGGGgoooo #3,,,31,,,28,,,94,,,6,,,5,,,18,,,8,,,
Handy^man

by **Jim Sokolof** » Tue, 08 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> As a prior developer you well know that programming can sometimes be
> a very time-insensitive process. This is something that's being
> 'developed' in-house at TEN.

No, it's not really being 'developed' by TEN.

The difficult and time-consuming part of the work is being done by
Papyrus, by Papyrus employees, in Watertown. TEN has some work to do,
but as far as I know, the part that's taking time is making sure that N2
is up to running unattended, cheating-resistant, reliable races over a
WAN. That's all in Papy's court. TEN just has to provide the network,
accounting, and machine room space...

---Jim

by **Handy^ma** » Tue, 08 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> >> > Well in the mean Time TEN is making a fortune off of us since we all
> >> >signed on at the first of the year .We are just paying for a spot I
> >> >guess since I have no other use for TEN.I think we need to get some type
> >> >of refund.
> >> >--
> >> >Paul Carillon

> >> Have to agree with you Paul. I believed TENs' advertising back in December
> >> during their membership drive and signed up. Seven months of paying was
> >> reasonable enough time to expect some sort of explanation or progress.
> [snip]

> >> Regards,
> >> Greg Avella

> >Wanna light a fire under the ole boys??? get a class action suit going
> >against them...
> >I bet they wont be near as Smug when faced with paying back all the
> >money they received
> >to date.... hell, it Worked for AOL subscribers,,,,and Aol has gotten
> >Much better since.
> [snip]
> >--
> > Handy^man

> Unless you signed up for an NROS-specific account, I'm not sure what
> they did wrong. TEN does support many other games. The AOL situation
> involved very poor or no service to it's subscribers. Even though TEN
> doesn't support NASCAR 2 as of yet, the one game many of us would even
> bother to play on their network, they still provide reasonable support
> to play other popular games.

> Yes, they should've waited until NROS was working before advertising
> for it. But they didn't deceive anyone by saying it WAS available for
> play when they started taking people's money.

> My suggestion: contact TEN and see if they'll put a hold on your
> account, including the lower rate, until you decide to reactivate it
> at a later date (i.e., when NROS is working).

> Kyle Langston
> ______________________

you are, sir,,,,correct,,,,and I stand corrected,,,, :)
I cancelled promptly,,,,and still figure to resign when and IF N2 is
available,,,,,I did NOT care for any of the other games,,,,,
-- btw,,,,thanks for the critique,,,,,I need that once in a while....
sometimes I vent before I think ???? gotaa remember,,,think
twice,,,and post once ;)

Sit down,,Strap in,,Shut up,,Hang on,,Go fast,,Turn left,,Kiss Trophy
Girl
GGGGGGgoooo #3,,,31,,,28,,,94,,,6,,,5,,,18,,,8,,,
Handy^man

by **G Avell** » Tue, 08 Jul 1997 04:00:00

Just a second. Not saying that is WAS available may be true in a legal
sense. However, my frequent phone calls to TEN and conversations
with the the TEN personnel always led me to believe that implementation was
coming ..."anytime, now"... "real soon"..."they're almost finished testing it"
a blah blah blah. There is a distinction here. They TOOK the money based
upon the advertising campaign for the NROS. The intent to sell A product
was there. Perhaps they followed the letter of the law in the campaign
but anyone can see that (NROS) was the bait.
I couldn't care less if it takes two years to implement the NROS. I'll
be there when it's done. However, the " tough crap,buddy..you bought our
advertising...should have known better" attitude of TEN is discouraging.
I shouldn't have to "know better".

Regards,
G Avella

by **David Hudso** » Wed, 09 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> > As a prior developer you well know that programming can sometimes be
> > a very time-insensitive process. This is something that's being
> > 'developed' in-house at TEN. I think it WILL come out, but I also
> > think TEN was wrong to start advertising 'vaporware'. Unfortunately,
> > in the age of selling products that don't yet exist, companies are
> > more worried about perception, then in reality.

> > Microsoft has mastered the process of marketing products that
> > don't exist. I wish companies would stop this practice, but I suppose
> > it's here to stay. Hints are one thing, marketing is another...

> > Rich

> > I apologize to all the IVGA
> > >MEMBERS that I recommended that you sign up. Jan or Feb or now... Well
> > >you read it for yourself, but for sure its August/Sept/Oct/Nov or 1998
> > >if
> > >at all.

> > >Don Wilshe, IVGA

> > > Please
> > >bear with us. We'll let you know as soon as we have more information.

> > >Sean Butcher

> > >==================================================================================================================

> Well in the mean Time TEN is making a fortune off of us since we all
> signed on at the first of the year .We are just paying for a spot I
> guess since I have no other use for TEN.I think we need to get some type
> of refund.Just a Thought
> --
> Paul Carillon
> http://members.aol.com/sschevy454
> http://www.oilout.com/nros/hts/
> http://www2.netwide.net/n2ros/midwest/default.asp

DEAD ON !!!! I was wondering when these rumblings would start and they
SHOULD !! Has anyone checked on the legality of trying a different
alternative perhaps through a dos type dial in ??
NASCAR wouldn't touch it obviously but would we care if we could
FINALLY run even 20 cars in a live race ????

David Hudson

by **Rich Sco** » Wed, 09 Jul 1997 04:00:00

>> As a prior developer you well know that programming can sometimes be
>> a very time-insensitive process. This is something that's being
>> 'developed' in-house at TEN.

>No, it's not really being 'developed' by TEN.

>The difficult and time-consuming part of the work is being done by
>Papyrus, by Papyrus employees, in Watertown. TEN has some work to do,
>but as far as I know, the part that's taking time is making sure that N2
>is up to running unattended, cheating-resistant, reliable races over a
>WAN. That's all in Papy's court. TEN just has to provide the network,
>accounting, and machine room space...

I was under the assumption <as was everyone else>, that the app was
being ported from a DOS app to a Client-Server UNIX Application, Jim.

How is this being developed in-house at Papyrus by folks who aren't
Client-Server/Unix programming people? Much different then writing a
DOS/Win95 Winsock Application.

You're message is very different from the one sent out by Sean
Butcher.

Rich

by **myke** » Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> > Well in the mean Time TEN is making a fortune off of us since we all
> > signed on at the first of the year .We are just paying for a spot I
> > guess since I have no other use for TEN.I think we need to get some type
> > of refund.Just a Thought
> > --
> > Paul Carillon
> > http://members.aol.com/sschevy454
> > http://www.oilout.com/nros/hts/
> > http://www2.netwide.net/n2ros/midwest/default.asp

> DEAD ON !!!! I was wondering when these rumblings would start and they
> SHOULD !! Has anyone checked on the legality of trying a different
> alternative perhaps through a dos type dial in ??
> NASCAR wouldn't touch it obviously but would we care if we could
> FINALLY run even 20 cars in a live race ????

> David Hudson

Technically speaking software could be written to re-create Hawaii for
N2. However without a modified version of Nascar2 executable there
would be serious security problems.

Legally this is another question.

mykey

by **Jim Sokolof** » Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> I couldn't care less if it takes two years to implement the NROS. I'll
> be there when it's done. However, the " tough crap,buddy..you bought our
> advertising...should have known better" attitude of TEN is discouraging.
> I shouldn't have to "know better".

Uh-oh; I fully agreed with you until your last sentence. The growing
idea that consumers shouldn't have to use their brain is discouraging...

---Jim

by **Jim Sokolof** » Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:00:00

> >No, it's not really being 'developed' by TEN.

> >The difficult and time-consuming part of the work is being done by
> >Papyrus, by Papyrus employees, in Watertown. TEN has some work to do,
> >but as far as I know, the part that's taking time is making sure that N2
> >is up to running unattended, cheating-resistant, reliable races over a
> >WAN. That's all in Papy's court. TEN just has to provide the network,
> >accounting, and machine room space...

> I was under the assumption <as was everyone else>, that the app was
> being ported from a DOS app to a Client-Server UNIX Application, Jim.

You are correct.

It's being done by Papy personnel, who are learning the Unix side of
things.

N2 in multiplayer mode is already a client-server app, with the
distinction that one machine contains both a server and a client. It's
being converted to a pure client server architecture, with the server
running on Solaris machines. Solaris is not Intel-endian, the server now
has no need for any of the graphics, and the rules enforcement and
cheating-prevention need to be increased over the N2 IPX multi shipped
in the box. That's all Papy-work, not TEN-work.

I didn't see his message, but I'm pretty familiar with who's doing what,
and I'm certain that Papy personnel are performing the "hard" part of
the port. I'm sure that TEN isn't sitting on their butts, but I don't
believe they have any hand in working on the NASCAR-specific portions of
the code, merely in the accounting and connection part of the equation,
and acting as a technical resource for the Papy programmers porting the
server.

---Jim

by **Ryan Smar** » Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:00:00

Well, there are people who work at Papy who came from other companies who
use different development environments than Win95/DOS.

For instance, I used to work on Ultrix and OSF/1 (digital unix, its called
now) doing client/server network applications.

ryan smart

by **G Avell** » Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:00:00

>> I couldn't care less if it takes two years to implement the NROS. I'll
>> be there when it's done. However, the " tough crap,buddy..you bought our
>> advertising...should have known better" attitude of TEN is discouraging.
>> I shouldn't have to "know better".

>Uh-oh; I fully agreed with you until your last sentence. The growing
>idea that consumers shouldn't have to use their brain is discouraging...

>---Jim

I certainly didn't mean to infer that one shouldn't exercise the
grey matter, just that I shouldn't be expected by TEN to " know better"
than to believe their advertising.
Btw, some time back you mentioned that you did your Thesis on
simulating a race car. I'd like to read that if possible. Is it
archived at a University for public perusal?

Regards,
G Avella

rec.autos.simulators

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998

NRO - Going towards 1998