I know this sound bad but green smoke in NFS:PU is "Normal". That's what I
read somewhere anyway so if you smoke is not green, there may or may not be
a problem with your D3D rendering LOL.
I know this sound bad but green smoke in NFS:PU is "Normal". That's what I
read somewhere anyway so if you smoke is not green, there may or may not be
a problem with your D3D rendering LOL.
What I was trying to say is that a lot of problems that appear to be fixed
by going from 16bit to 32 bit can actually be fixed via drivers or setting
options. That for me would be the prefered route so as to keep my 16bit
speed.
Somebody else pointed out that 32bit fixed their ugly dithering when IMHO
there may have been other ways to fix it besides giving your PC a 32bit
slowdown.
Your opinion is 12bit, with heavy compression.
:)
Jus because your monitor is: 1. Small 2. Ugly 3. Old ...doesn't make the
nature of 16bit vs 32bit change 1 iota.
Pasha
As for how 16-bit looks, in some games, GPL for instance, it doesn't cause
any problems, but in others, Quake 3 and Homeworld for instance, you get
definite colour banding. Having said that Quake 3 is the only game I run in
32-bit colour/textures, because it's the only game I have that's still very
smooth in 32-bit.
> > > 16 bit vs 32 bit color most often has nothing to do with what your are
> > > pointing out. This is a dithering problem that can or can't be fixed in
> > the
> > > driver settings (depending on what card you own).
> > Not true. 32 bit color is not dithered. No reason to dither 32 bit color
> > unless the internal calculations of each color component (ARGB) are more
> > than 8 bits each.
> > It's interesting to hear that most people see no difference and are happy
> > with 16 bit. I agree that this is a feature that few appreciate and is
> more
> > a marketing bullet than anything else right now. In the future, however,
> > DX8 and certainly DX9 and beyond cards will require 32 bit color for the
> > many blending passes they will use and probably higher internal precision
> > per color component (12 or greater). Dithering may come into play for 32
> > bit color at this point.
> What I was trying to say is that a lot of problems that appear to be fixed
> by going from 16bit to 32 bit can actually be fixed via drivers or setting
> options. That for me would be the prefered route so as to keep my 16bit
> speed.
> Somebody else pointed out that 32bit fixed their ugly dithering when IMHO
> there may have been other ways to fix it besides giving your PC a 32bit
> slowdown.
If you have internal 32-bit colour precision, then 16-bit colour can look
almost as good as 32-bit. For examples of this, please se the Kyro2,
which always works internally at 32-bit, and then dithers down to 16-bit
if thats required.
Other issues such as that extra green bit leading to a green bias in
images have already been touched on elsewhere, so I wont bother, suffice
to say I play in 32-bit all the time, because I find the image quality
preferable.
--
SteveP
http://www.naplesfl.net/~tbates/gravity/ <-I like this
Yep. 16 bit z buffer stops WB 3 working properly, for example. 16 bit
colour and 24 bit Z would be fine. I am sure there is some sort of GF2
tweak utility that might allow it, but it all gets hazy....
Aaron Turner
Stephen> If you have internal 32-bit colour precision, then 16-bit
Stephen> colour can look almost as good as 32-bit. For examples of
Stephen> this, please se the Kyro2, which always works internally at
Stephen> 32-bit, and then dithers down to 16-bit if thats required.
The Kyro2 is a different beast. I saw benchmarks where there wasn't
much difference between running in 16-bit and 32-bit mode.
Anybody have recommendations for using a Radeon in Tribes2? I'll go
back to the speed of 16-bit if it looks nearly as good as 32-bit.
(Yeah, I could test it myself, but I may be missing something.)
--
Michael Bain
> Stephen> If you have internal 32-bit colour precision, then 16-bit
> Stephen> colour can look almost as good as 32-bit. For examples of
> Stephen> this, please se the Kyro2, which always works internally at
> Stephen> 32-bit, and then dithers down to 16-bit if thats required.
> The Kyro2 is a different beast. I saw benchmarks where there wasn't
> much difference between running in 16-bit and 32-bit mode.
--
SteveP
http://www.naplesfl.net/~tbates/gravity/ <-I like this
> > IMHO, the folks that
> > say they can see a difference either have an expensive 20+ inch monitor
or
> > they are simply saying it to win an argument.
> Your opinion is 12bit, with heavy compression.
> :)
> Jus because your monitor is: 1. Small 2. Ugly 3. Old ...doesn't make the
> nature of 16bit vs 32bit change 1 iota.
--
Bard
http://www.1vvfsc.org - vancouver flight sim club
http://www.eq-clan.com - EQ counterstrike clan
http://www.1vvfsc.org/sb - Steel Beasts RW base
> 16 bit vs 32 bit color most often has nothing to do with what your are
> pointing out. This is a dithering problem that can or can't be fixed in
the
> driver settings (depending on what card you own). For example, My Radeon
> has the option to change the dithering type using "Radeon Tweaker" or I
can
> leave it ugly and benefit from the speed. 32 vs 16bit has nothing to do
> with it although sometimes going to 32bit will fix dithering problems.
But
> again, this is card specific and can even be driver specific or setting
> specific AFAIK.
> HM looks gorgeous in 16bit on the Radeon and I can't tell the difference
> either way. Now in Quake III the smoke has some banding or cheescloth
> effect but this can be changed via options settings. I don't play Q3
anyway
> as I prefer UT though LOL.
> > color banding in clouds or fog are usually the biggest problem.
> > homeworld, quake3arena are 2 which immediately come to mind where i
> noticed,
> > probably cfs2 but haven't looked, jf18 definitely needed 32bit color as
> the
> > clouds are very banded.
> > haven't had enough time lately ;)
> > --
> > Bard
> > http://www.1vvfsc.org - vancouver flight sim club
> > http://www.eq-clan.com - EQ counterstrike clan
> > http://www.1vvfsc.org/sb - Steel Beasts RW base
Actually, what _is_ the W-buffer?
What I'd like would be an ability to use 24 bit Z buffer on my GF 2 MX
with 16 bit colour. On the WB 3 beta at 1024x768 with refresh set to 85 Hz
(maximum my old SGI monitor will do) I get 37 fps average with 16 bit
colour, 16 bit Z, and 27 fps for 32 bit colour, 24 bit Z, with just a
single f6f at 10,000 feet (some cloud haze). It can be higher with less
action, lower with more, and ideally I'd like to keep it more towards the
37fps level. But if I go down to a 16 bit Z buffer then there are all
sorts of artifacts on coastlines in WB3. I can't seem to force the GF 2
into 16 bit colour, 24 bit Z, or find another way around the coastline
jaggies. Any hints?
My system is:
win 2k, celeron 600 o/c 900, 256 Mb RAM, soundblaster live value,
elsa gf 2 mx (32mb sdr RAM), GTU set to fast options (but with
24 bit Z allowed).
Thanks
Aaron Turner
I am watching the internet channel on a Yugo, I just imagine it can look
better.
Pasha
> > What goes from my monitor to my eye is the only thing that matters.
What
> is
> > on other peoples desktop doesn't concern me. BTW, I just purchased a
17"
> > Xflat KDS today so don't be making fun of my Honda just because you own
a
> > Porsche!
> I am watching the internet channel on a Yugo, I just imagine it can look
> better.
I just noticed some strange lines on my screen this moring. It looks like a
giant fingerprint and only shows up on a dark screen. I may have to trade
this one in but damn I love this flat screen. Decisions decisions.
Z is a normalized depth value between 0.0 and 1.0. It is non-linear and has
problems the closer you get to 1.0 when you have lots of depth range.
W is a non-normalized depth value that is the objects actual distance from
your viewpoint. It is linear and does not have some of the problems that Z
has.
I don't believe any of Nvidia's cars support mixed rendering modes (16 bit
color/32 bit depth or 32 bit color/16 bit depth).
Mud