rec.autos.simulators

1.) Why, when the two stewart cars had problems on the grid, did they abort
the start? You can't get started? See you next event...(very NASCAR
mentality I realize, but I don't understand)

2.) How did Schumacher, Michael, get screwed? He couldn't go anywhere on the
first start because of the stalled car in front of him.

3.) Why only 58 laps, kind of short for months and months of preperation...?

4.) I guess I just don't understand why F1 insists on using standing starts

--
-/- Walk Walker
Official HAL Backmarker

: 1.) Why, when the two stewart cars had problems on the grid, did they abort
: the start? You can't get started? See you next event...(very NASCAR
: mentality I realize, but I don't understand)

  The F1 cars accelerate much quicker than NASCARs if someone stalls on
the grid then there is potential for an extremely *** accident.
Indeed there have been fatalities in F1 this way.  The F1 cars can
be doing a hundred mph after not very many car lengths - certainly
in the length of the grid.

: 2.) How did Schumacher, Michael, get screwed? He couldn't go anywhere on the
: first start because of the stalled car in front of him.

  He had clutch problems getting started.  The car in front of him
wasn't stalled (Mika Hakkinen).  F1 cars don't have starters so he had
to be pushed off.  F1 rules state that on the parade lap (where Schumi
had his problem) you can regain your grid place if you get off before
everyone has gone past (this happened to Mika) but not if everyone has
passed you before you start (as happened to Michael).

: 3.) Why only 58 laps, kind of short for months and months of preperation...?

  Traditional - each race is approximately the same length.  (I think
it's 200km - can't remember the exact distance).  Remember also that
F1 courses are much longer than ovals.  200 laps of most F1 courses
would mean a 5-6 hour race.

: 4.) I guess I just don't understand why F1 insists on using standing starts

  The standing start is a great test of skill.  Some drivers are
brilliant at it (Coulthard, Alesi) and some aren't.  It's dangerous
I suppose but for a lot of spectators it is the most exciting part
of the race.

--
Richard G. Clegg     Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

FIA rules. <shrugs> Why does NASCAR change the rules every time one chassis
manufacturer gets the advantage?  I don't understand that.  Btw, if you
hadn't noticed it ain't NASCAR.

I would consider that being screwed.  Not Michael's fault, nothing he could
do about it...therefore he got hosed.  Life goes on.

preperation...?

How long did it take them to complete 58 laps?  1hr35'01"659 minutes of
racing.  You go drive the Australian GP track in an F1 car for 1 1/2 hours
and see how you fare; 3.92mile distance around the track and 58 laps is
191miles.  Granted it was not the 400miles of LasVega, but its not the same
as going around in a circle for 3 hours (not to say that isn't tough
either).    Btw, as a comparison, CART has a standing # of laps or 2 hours
for each race whichever comes first.

Again, I don't understand why NASCAR changes rules every week it seems.
Besides, standing starts are kinda a tradition in F1.

Check out www.formula1.com, its an unofficial F1 site, but its EXTREMELY
well done.

Well, they could have had an obstacle-laden grid for 20 other cars
travelling at 100mph+ to negotiate but it wouldn't have been very safe
would it?! Definitely NASCAR mentality.

His car expired on the grid.

Asking the F1 cars to run a 200 lap race like NASCAR would be like
asking NASCAR to run about 1500 laps!

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824

1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

They started but from the pits: if the car is unable to start in time (the
car must start before all the other drivers will overtake it during the warm
up lap) he must start from there (absurd!). In fact Hakkinen has started
from the pole (he recovered his place in time).

See the previous answer. However he had a steering wheel problem: 1st gear
malfunction (these steering wheels cost about 30,000 $!!)

preperation...?

That is about 300 km! (200 miles). A F.1 engine is made to live just 350-400
km! But that's an effect, not a cause. Mainly  because the drivers would
tire themselves too much = too many risks.

Me too!
F1 has never been very smart about all these aspects. Many new rules has
been copied from american races (pace car, etc.)

Stefano Serni

Basically because F1 cars accelerate too fast. Rubens was in fourth,
and even in the 100-150m it would take the back cars to reach him they
would be doing close on 150mph and have no time to react. Dangerous
for them and for Rubens.

He couldn't go anywhere on the first start because he fluffed it
getting away, nothing to do with the car stalled in front (he could
easily have driven round that). Actually he shouldn't have been sent
to the back, since the rules state that you must go to the back ONLY
if all other cars have crossed the white line to begin the pace lap -
Takagi's car had also stalled and hence not all cars had crossed.
Officially Michael should have been allowed to resume his position, as
Hakkinen did. Anyway, his race was screwed further when he got a
puncture and then a steering wheel malfunction rubbed salt in the
wound (the wheel controls most things on the car).

It's historical - 200 miles or 2 hours, whichever is sooner. Races
generally run for close on 200m, and that is longer or shorter
timewise depending upon weather and relative speed of the track
(Monaco is nearly 2 hours, Monza and Hockenheim are only 80mins or
so).

Just one more skill left to the driver. I find standing starts far
more exciting to watch as well as a skill to be learned - everyone
racing _equally_ for the first corner. Rolling starts give too much
scope for devious strategy, faking people out etc.

Cheers!
John

Right.  At the time, it did seem like MS got screwed, that Hakkinen had
caused him to stall by not pulling away.  But as it turned out,
Schumacher couldn't get the car in first because of his faulty steering
wheel (which houses the shifter).  This problem came back to plague him
in the race - he had an aborted pitstop in which you could here his
shifting problems and then he came in and got the steering wheel
completely changed out. Fox Sports Net had an interesting piece on the
F1 steering wheels before a race last season.  These suckers cost around
$20,000 to $40,000 (US) !

What was never explained was the letter of the rule re: passing someone
on the parade lap.  As most of you know, it's illegal to pass on the
parade lap.  Schumacher got black flagged for doing this in 1994. Since
Hakkinen didn't pull away, half the field passed him. Why no penalties
for that?  I assume it was okay since Hakkinen was having problems, but
I would be curious to read the exact rule.

F1 races are set to be the minimum number of laps that gets the race
over 305 km.  Don't know why 305 and not a round number like 300.  The
race also has a two hour maximum time (this occasionally comes into play
in the rain on slow circuits).  It would be asking a lot of these cars
to go much longer than that (the Ferrari is redlining at 18,000 rpm!).

Dave Ewing

Not everyone had passed Michael though. There was another car at the back of
the grid so MS was the second to last to leave the grid so should have taken
his correct place.

Dean

The relevant part of Article 142 of the F1 Sporting Regulations states;
 "Overtaking during the formation lap is only permitted if a car is
delayed when leaving its grid position and cars behind cannot avoid
passing it without unduly delaying the remainder of the field. In this
case, drivers may only overtake to re-establish the original starting
order."
"Any driver who is delayed leaving the grid may not overtake another
moving car if he was stationary after the remainder of the cars had
crossed the Line, and must start the race from the back of the grid. If
more than one driver is affected, they must form up at the back of the
grid in the order they left to complete the formation lap. If the Line is
not situated in front of pole position, for the purposes of this Article
only, it will be deemed to be a white line one metre in front of pole
position."
"A time penalty will be imposed on any driver who, in the opinion of the
Stewards, unnecessarily overtook another car during the formation
lap."

--
Alan E. Jones

Why? I don't understand.

--

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cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

If his car did not start properly on it's own, it goes to the rear of the
field
or the pits. I didn't realize that he also had a problem until after
everything
was sorted out. Also (fwiw) he got screwed by the flat tire not the start
:-)

preperation...?

All the F1 races are aprox 300KM in length (monaco is 259KM). Monaco is
78 laps, but that circuit is pretty short. Hockenhiem is only 45 laps. Also
there
is a 2 hour time limit for each race.

Feature :-)

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Just one more skill left to the driver. I find standing starts far
more exciting to watch as well as a skill to be learned - everyone
racing _equally_ for the first corner. Rolling starts give too much
scope for devious strategy, faking people out etc.>>

yeah, but nothing compared to the full-on LeMans type start where the
drivers race on foot to the cars ;)  !!

obviously impossible today, but what fun!!

As does Formula1.

-
"If the meaning of life was printed in a book, someone
 would use it to keep the window open."

See above. The rules say that you can resume your grid position
provided all other cars haven't left the grid. Obviously this is
against the spirit and intent of the rules to include cars who, like
you, have stalled, but it's within the letter. F1 has always been very
big on following the letter at the expense of the spirit.

Cheers!
John

I loved that - wouldn't like to trip though!!

Cheers!
John