rec.autos.simulators

Simply put (just like Nascar) if you don't have a Pentium, don't bother
with the SVGA mode. I have a DX4-100, 16 mb RAM, ATI Graphics Xpression
VLB graphics card and even with a clean boot I got ch-ch-choppy performance
unless pretty well all the graphics are turned off (and no, the UniVBE
driver didn't work with my graphics card - it detected fine but the frame
rate was worse).

VGA mode was nice and smooth but it doesn't look much different than
Indycar I (which I already have plus the track pack).  After about 30
minutes playing it didn't feel or drive much differently than Indycar I
either.

I am going to pass this one up for now (until I get a Pentium - which
won't be anytime soon). I think that there "recommended" system, a
Pentium 60 (see the readme.txt file), is far short of the "optimum"
system for SVGA. My system benchs about 65 which is very close to a
Pentium 60. I can only think that mean a Pentium 60 is the "optimum"
system for VGA graphics. This baby is going to need a Pentium 90 or better.

If Papyrus is reading this...GET A CLUE! I HATE it when software
companies "soft pedal" the hardware requirements for their products. Sure
I can see a 486-33 as the "minumum" system(see the readme.txt file) to get
this prog going in VGA but why don't you base your "optimum" hardware
requirements on the "optimum" graphics setting (i.e. SVGA)? (especially when
the SVGA option is the main difference/upgrade in this game over Indycar I).
At least you had the decency to release a demo that allowed me to evaluate it
on my system and come to the obvious conclusion that if I have Indycar I, I
don't need Indycar II (for now).

Flame-ON, Johnny!

KaBoNG!

The SVGA was surprisingly FAST and was very playable, and is the main
reason that I will be buying it. (Improved AI is the other)

If you are having problems with the SVGA speed, make sure that you tried
choosing in the setup to install the univbe.drv it makes a big difference.

I was so surprised with the improvement that I went and FTP'ed the full
UNIVBE51 product to see if it would do the same for Nascar. No it didn't
improve it much and the FTP'ed univbe51 version was actually slower with
ICR2.0 than the univbe.drv that papyrus includes with the demo, so maybe
they really tweaked out the SVGA modes in their version, but whatever  
papyrus did, it is the fastest SVGA performance on my system of any game I
have seen so far.

Now all I want to know is when it will be in the stores, I am itching to
drive my favorite track Long Beach.

-- John (King of the Beach)
--
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Ralf

But your system is not a Pentium. We introduced an optimization in the
graphics engine that is *Pentium*-*specific*. Even though the raw CPU
rating of the DX4/100 may be close to that of the P60, the Pentium is a
different CPU architecture and there are things we can do with a Pentium
that we can not do with a 486. Sorry if you're disappointed, but that's
the way it is.

By the way, I use a P5-66 at work, and in SVGA I get about 12 FPS with all
textures on (including grass and track). I prefer to drive without grass
and track textures, which drives the frame rate up to around 16-20. On a
P-90, it's very smooth.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

BTW, univbe 5.1a is loaded and my video card *is* supported. I note
the SVGA is *extremely* RAM hungry. (8Mb, need more...any & all
donations accepted <g>)

Thanks for advising this, however, don't you agree that something
should be mentioned *somewhere* (apart from as a re-active response to
a post in this newsgroup) re the game being enhanced for the Pentium
processor to avoid unrealistic expectations on the part of the buyer?
Perhaps on the box or in magazine advertising would be a good place??
Caveat Emptor ???

Again thanks for the 'quantitative' info. I was planning an hardware
upgrade, and now I can actually plan with confidence the *grunt*
required. I was planning a P100, 512k SBC supported SuperMicro Mb
running 16Mb 60ns burst EDO. From what you've said here, I now know
this will be ample. I prefer grass and track texture on, so I figure
that should be achievable and smooth at 20+ FPS with the 100 etc.

For the record IMO, the 'Kawasaki/Suzuki/Honda/Yamaha' sales oriented
sound was an abysmal disappointment. Samples from the driver position
in a real Indycar may not have e***d the children, (they have NFS
and the corner "hoodlum hangout" for that), however it certainly
would've made the *game* more of a *sim* and re-playable. The
NASCARish excessive tyre squealing and stand on the brakes and trickle
through the corner amateurs imaginative driving model is a function of
the 'arcade' demo..I hope???

Marketing's hand in this is evident, and is consistant with the no
network (LAN) decision. I'm sure it'll be sucessful, as it does appear
to be what the mass market wants or perhaps more accurately will
accept,..more's the pity. <smile>

Again, congrats on the excellent graphics, in the SVGA version, but
I'll pass and wait for Grand Prix 2 from Crammond. In the interim,
Indycar One still has many features lacking in VGA version 2, in
particular the sound, and quite a few playable modem hours yet to run.

Regards,

                 ---Cogito Ergo Sum---               *

* Fidonet:       3:640/377                            *
    Keiron Rado, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia     *  

My ICRS teammate ran it on a DX2-66 and reported that VGA is FAR faster
than ICR1, and also commented that SVGA is usable on his system.  He's got
one with a PCI bus, but that's hardly uncommon these days.

On the other hand, I have an ancient DX2-66 with ISA graphics and I can't
get almost anywhere on SVGA, and even VGA is dodgy with other cars around.

From what I've seen and heard (from folks who have run ICR1 to death over
the past two years), I'd say that Papyrus made a good-faith estimate of what
you'd need, and that they got it basically right.  

Do remember that the PC business has a fantastic variety of hardware and
sofwtare out there, and that just because two items look the same on the
spec sheet doesn't mean they will act the same.  (In fact, they often don't.)

Brian Wong                              Systems Engineering Group (Servers)

--

Brian Wong                              Systems Engineering Group (Servers)

On the box the recommended platform for SVGA is a Pentium.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

Mic technique can be a B word.  I've spent some time trying to get race car
engines recorded for radio spots (since I despise what they give you on
effect disks)  Getting mics positioned is worse than cameras

: Could someone please explain just what UNIVBE is?  (I do understand that
: it's got something to do with a fast video driver.)  What's UNIVB51?
: Does this stuff require a particular type of hardware?  It seems critically
: important to those of us who are, uh, "hardware-challenged" :-)

: --

Univbe *is* magic.  It works with most video cards and is not manufacturer
specific.  Some systems have not been able to run it, but there does not seem
to be any consitent pattern to this, atleast not to my knowledge.

Mike

Thanks, Mike

: Simply put (just like Nascar) if you don't have a Pentium, don't bother
: with the SVGA mode. I have a DX4-100, 16 mb RAM, ATI Graphics Xpression
: VLB graphics card and even with a clean boot I got ch-ch-choppy performance
: unless pretty well all the graphics are turned off (and no, the UniVBE
: driver didn't work with my graphics card - it detected fine but the frame
: rate was worse).

Try running the uvconfig.exe that comes with the demo.  Set the Linear
Frame Buffer off.  I was able to run this with my ATI WinTurbo this way,
but I didn't really notice any difference in the frame rate.

However, my reaction to the demo is completely different than yours.  To
each their own.  I have P5-90 and found the frame rate okay, if I turn
off grass, track texture, grandstand objects.  It does look nice if I
can run with everything on, but I want to race not enjoy eye-candy.  I
think the performance of the car and the AI are greatly enhanced over
ICR1.  That and being able to run in SVGA (even with the gloss turned
off) is why I'm a sucker and will buy it.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Univbe adds perhaps 1 fps.

I found ICR1 would show more detail for a given set minimum framerate.  I'm
surprised your "teammate" found ICR2 faster.  Is ICR2 using 320x240 compared
to ICR1's 320x200?  Further, ICR2's low-res graphics seem more blocky than
ICR1's.  I've noticed this in maybe every SVGA/VGA game I've seen. Is it
because the graphics are designed for 640x480 and in some simple way
translated to 320x240, rather than optimised and anti-aliased as the old games
were?  Whatever the reason, it looks worse, especially the LCD's.  I'd have to
agree with the sentiment that, if you don't have the hp to run it in SVGA, it
may not be worth "upgrading" from ICR1 (though you do get all the tracks sans
indy).

However, hi-res is another story.  I can run it with "acceptable" framerate
(about 12 fps) with objects and skids on.  Depending on number of cars, with
car texture too.  But with a lot of cars, it becomes a surrealistic endeavor
as all I have is me, the ribbon of a track, and cars disappearing and
reappearing.  Overall, impressive.  Time for a CPU upgrade...

-------------------
David Masten

This correlates to a comment I posted to another message.   My Pentium
90 really hummed ICR2 along with all the graphics on.   NASCAR
required a lot turned off.   So that is what you did!   Glad I
invested in a Pentium.

Thanks...Craig
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i just wanted to comment that i have a basic dx2 66 with a 1meg video card...
i found if i run my soundblaster16 in mono, and drop the opponents cars
to down around 15 20, i get an acceptable frame rate to play in svga....
comparable to running nascar in low res with 20 cars....that univesa program
included with the demo makes a big difference....
cant wait for the full version if icr2!!!!!

ALL HAIL PAPYRUS for outdoing themselves again!!!!!!!!