rec.autos.simulators

Those are all good ideas... I'd also like to see a bit more "eye candy," if
possible, but mainly in replay--if a car suffers an engine failure or a fire,
it starts smoking in the view from the race (so you know something is seriously
wrong and it may be laying down oil or water), with more detail available in the
replay (i.e., a car that's gonna drop out due to a fire has visible flames, but
only in replay)... and my personal fave, being able to tell the crew chief to
do partial repairs.  (I know, it's sort of possible with N2, but it's more
realistic to tell the crew what to fix before coming in rather than having to
keep track of what panel they're working on...)

Oh, yes, a couple other things I'd like to see... tape on the grille, a visible
tow truck, and having reverse be a separate gear where you downshift to it and
hit the gas to back up.

RM
Owner/Driver, Vulpine Racing #65 ACME Industries Ford Taurus (if we get it built
     in time for Daytona)
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~rmanning/vulpineracing.html

I did forget to mention the tow truck item =)   A moving pit crew would
be awesome... but could you imagine the load on the cpu =)  I can hear
the framerate complaints and storage requirements already =)

Scott

LOL Scott.  If I have anything to do with, Gordon's AI setting will have him
blowing an engine 75% of the races he is in.  :>   Hey, I can dream can't I?
hehehehehe

No doubt!  Maybe this year!

Brian

Brian,

I wont deny the kids got a load of driving talent.  However.... I feel
that a few too many occurences happen in his favor throughout a season.
The DJ incident in WG really ticked me off.  If it were Gordon... NO WAY
would NASCAR have black flagged him with 3 laps to go when the car
behind him said their was NO fluid coming out of the car.

As far as N3....  I think Gordon should wreck in the pits all by himself
so the game is realistic ;)

Scott

I guess it is always on how real do you want the damage model.  Alot of the wrecks
that we survive in N2 and even stay on the lead lap put a real car out of the race.
I'm hoping for more levels of damage.  To be real, you should loose a lap even for a
minor incident, where as it is in N2, you can crunch up the car a little and get it
fixed and still stay on the lead lap at most of the tracks.  I guess it would depend
on the damage level and if the physics would allow you to change certain things to
be fixed.

The fire issue is always touchy since Nascar has a say-so in what is involved with
the sim.  Naturally, they don't want to see any fire in the accidents because of the
nature of tragdady involved with fire in accidents.  Personally, I would like to see
it to on a rare occasion but I would not hold your breath on that one.  You ever
wonder why you don't see the car parts fly outside of the pit walls in N1 and N2
accidents?...you guessed it.  Nascar does not want a game showing car parts flying
up in the stands....one of their biggest fears.  Thought about this last year when
Ernie's hood flew up in the stands in the Daytona 500.

Since you most rarely ever use the reverse in Nascar racing, I could not seeing this
being a big issue.

The tow truck and emergency vehicals was something I would like to see too.  With
Indy 500, the Papyrus sim in about 1989, wrecked cars would stay on the track for
laps so a 6 car wreck could take 5 or 6 laps to clear up.  I500's AI had the ability
to negotiate the wrecked cars where later Papyrus sims that included multiple
tracks, did not have this ability.  That is why you would see the car vanish after
15 seconds.  Ever notice the AI cars bunch up when there was a few cars wrecked on
the track.  Imagine putting a tow truck and rescue vehicals out there too.  :>  What
a mess  :>

Good news is that along with the new physics comes new and smarter AI that should be
smart enough to get around disabled cars on the track.  If this is so, I hope the
other vehicals make it in too but I'm sure there more to it than that.

Only about 300 more days till we get to play this sucker.  Damn, 1998 is going to be
a long year. :>

Brian

Really don't want to get into it here but I heard some other stories from sources
close to it that said there were some very bad situations going on with Gordon and
his team.  Lets say that any other sport would of treated it like they did Pete
Rose.  Since hearing that, I'm not quite as intrested in Nascar as I use to
be....might as well watch professi***wrestleing.  :<

Brian

: > Can anyone tell me how to get a hold of the guys who are working on
: > N3?  Have a few I dea they might like. Thanx in advance

: A good approach is to discuss the ideas in rec.autos.sim. I assure you
: that Papyrus eyes are watching... And the ideas will benefit from
: public discussions.

For what it's worth, my main wishes:

  1) Smarter and more varied AI
  2) More car adjustment options (probably already addressed by
     GPL-derived physics)
  3) Variable track conditions during a race to make pit strategy
     and adjustments more challenging (*** laid down in the groove,
     changing track temperature, "marbles", etc.)
  4) Improved user interface:
     - More adjustable steering range, sensitivity, and nonlinearity
       (ideally a garage adjustment for optimization to different tracks).
     - My ideal for reverse-gear (without need for more controller
       switches):  When in 1st-gear, depressing and _holding_ the
       downshift button/lever would invoke reverse gear, with normal
       throttle control via the gas pedal.
     - faster menu system and "popup window" garage rather than leaving
       the track.
     - Assignable keystrokes for hotkeys.  I hate alt-key-combos and
       fumbling for Pause.  It would also be nice to have primitive macros,
       e.g. for setting multiple graphics options on/off at once.  Also,
       controller or gamepad buttons should be assignable to pit-board
       functions.  There's no ideal way to configure this for all dirvers
       or setups, so why not do the right thing and make it programmable
       like the controller functions are?

--
Scott Willingham / Hewlett-Packard Laboratories

    I guess 95% is about right! I usually look at replays just to see
something cool I did, and then it's back to racing!  I'd rather see
even more realistic addons to n3 than changes to the replay system
anyway (It was just an idea I had while using the replay system last
night).  SODA has a great new 3d physics model (and it's only the
beginning), I look forward to seeing what GPL and N3 are like!

Later,
John

Well, GP2 had some pretty cool flames when your engine blew sometimes
(I don't know about F1RS, I'll probably have to get a faster system
than my P120 before I purchise it to really enjoy the game!).  I don't
think it would be much of a stretch to put these things in N3
(especially with 3dfx technology).  I'll know the crash "eye candy" is
good when I see wrecks like the one Steve Grissom had at Atlanta last
March in a NASCAR game!  (I was amazed to see him walk out and talk to
reporters after that wild wreck!) I'd much rather see better gameplay
in NASCAR3 than spetacular wrecks, I think competition and close
racing is what NASCAR is about not crashes. (although they are
eveviltably a part of motor racing.).

John

Or if Jeff Burton had tagged him at Darlington on that last lap :)

On the Crew Chief and partial repairs, how about a crew chief with
some common sense?  Common sense says that no matter what (unless
you're 50 laps down or something), that you will stop repairs and say
"go go go!" and beat the pace car, then have your crew chief come over
the radio and say "come back in, we have more work to do..."

I hate having to sweat it, and sometimes they don't let you off the
jack soon enough, I get aggravated...

If that were Dale Earnhardt, Ernie Ervin, or Jimmy Spencer at
Darlington...   Jeff Gordon would never have won the Winston Million or
the Championship.  I think its speaks a bit about Jeff Burton as a
racer.... he could have easily taken Gordon out.

Scott

I don't have much interest in improved catastrophes (flat tires,
etc.), but want improvements in racing.  I would like to see:

               Lock up of brakes and spinning rear wheels under
acceleration on short tracks if you're not smooth.

                Slightly slower qualifying speeds for the AI, compared
to race speeds.

        Force feedback on brakes is more important than steering,
IMHO.

        Telemetry in replays (I know it's not allowed in WC; put a
switch on it).

                                      bob