rec.autos.simulators

> Marc--

> Exquisitely well-put and to the point. I've sent the following
question
> to Sierra, though I don't harbor any fantasies that I'll get a
straight
> answer -- or any answer at all:

> -----------------------------------------------

> The blurb on the NASCAR 3 packaging states:

> "The award-winning team that brought you the long-running NASCAR
Racing
> series of simulations has done it again. NASCAR Racing 3 includes
> updates for ALL [emphasis added] of the cars, tracks, and drivers from
> the 1999 NASCAR Winston Cup and NASCAR Busch Series, Grand National
> Division seasons."

> Even your N3 website states:
> "NASCAR Racing 3 will also include the cars and tracks from the Busch
> Grand National series.

> As you well know, this isn't true -- the most important track in ANY
> NASCAR Cup and Busch season, Daytona, is only available as a demo
under
> very special circumstances.

> As someone on rec.autos.simulators quite correctly observed, using the
> Daytona 500 to market your product is a great move -- but what are
> prospective new buyers of your NASCAR sim going to think of
> Sierra/Papyrus when they buy N3 -- after reading the packaging and
> believing that ALL the NASCAR tracks are included -- and then
> discovering that they DON'T get Daytona? It's not like they'll be
> missing Martinsville or Las Vegas [no offense to Martinsville and
Vegas
> fans -- BB].

> I think this is beyond misleading, and does not reflect at all well on
> Sierra/Papyrus. I think the fact that it's easy to perceive your
> packaging and web "features" list is intentionally misleading also
> promotes and legitimizes, in some peoples' minds, pirating Daytona and
> offering it for download, possibly even for sale, on the Web -- you
know
> that it's happened before, with Indianapolis, and you have to know
> somebody's going to do it with Daytona.

> As a Sierra customer, I'd like to know what possible motivation you
> could have for this ultimately self-injurious misinformation in your
advertising.

> Thanks for your time.

> Bart Brown

> -----------------------------------------------

> >> Unlike the NR1999 retail box which detailed which tracks were
> included, the
> > language on the N3 box would lead anyone with even a cursory
knowledge of
> > NASCAR racing to assume that the premier track, Daytona, was

> I've also forwarded a copy to the Iowa State Attorney General's Consumer
> Fraud Division.

>    Jim

> > Marc--

> > Exquisitely well-put and to the point. I've sent the following
> question
> > to Sierra, though I don't harbor any fantasies that I'll get a
> straight
> > answer -- or any answer at all:

> > -----------------------------------------------

> > The blurb on the NASCAR 3 packaging states:

> > "The award-winning team that brought you the long-running NASCAR
> Racing
> > series of simulations has done it again. NASCAR Racing 3 includes
> > updates for ALL [emphasis added] of the cars, tracks, and drivers from
> > the 1999 NASCAR Winston Cup and NASCAR Busch Series, Grand National
> > Division seasons."

> > Even your N3 website states:
> > "NASCAR Racing 3 will also include the cars and tracks from the Busch
> > Grand National series.

> > As you well know, this isn't true -- the most important track in ANY
> > NASCAR Cup and Busch season, Daytona, is only available as a demo
> under
> > very special circumstances.

> > As someone on rec.autos.simulators quite correctly observed, using the
> > Daytona 500 to market your product is a great move -- but what are
> > prospective new buyers of your NASCAR sim going to think of
> > Sierra/Papyrus when they buy N3 -- after reading the packaging and
> > believing that ALL the NASCAR tracks are included -- and then
> > discovering that they DON'T get Daytona? It's not like they'll be
> > missing Martinsville or Las Vegas [no offense to Martinsville and
> Vegas
> > fans -- BB].

> > I think this is beyond misleading, and does not reflect at all well on
> > Sierra/Papyrus. I think the fact that it's easy to perceive your
> > packaging and web "features" list is intentionally misleading also
> > promotes and legitimizes, in some peoples' minds, pirating Daytona and
> > offering it for download, possibly even for sale, on the Web -- you
> know
> > that it's happened before, with Indianapolis, and you have to know
> > somebody's going to do it with Daytona.

> > As a Sierra customer, I'd like to know what possible motivation you
> > could have for this ultimately self-injurious misinformation in your
> advertising.

> > Thanks for your time.

> > Bart Brown

> > -----------------------------------------------

> > >> Unlike the NR1999 retail box which detailed which tracks were
> > included, the
> > > language on the N3 box would lead anyone with even a cursory
> knowledge of
> > > NASCAR racing to assume that the premier track, Daytona, was
> included."

> I've also forwarded a copy to the Iowa State Attorney General's Consumer
> Fraud Division.

>    Jim

> > Marc--

> > Exquisitely well-put and to the point. I've sent the following
> question
> > to Sierra, though I don't harbor any fantasies that I'll get a
> straight
> > answer -- or any answer at all:

> > -----------------------------------------------

> > The blurb on the NASCAR 3 packaging states:

> > "The award-winning team that brought you the long-running NASCAR
> Racing
> > series of simulations has done it again. NASCAR Racing 3 includes
> > updates for ALL [emphasis added] of the cars, tracks, and drivers from
> > the 1999 NASCAR Winston Cup and NASCAR Busch Series, Grand National
> > Division seasons."

> > Even your N3 website states:
> > "NASCAR Racing 3 will also include the cars and tracks from the Busch
> > Grand National series.

> > As you well know, this isn't true -- the most important track in ANY
> > NASCAR Cup and Busch season, Daytona, is only available as a demo
> under
> > very special circumstances.

> > As someone on rec.autos.simulators quite correctly observed, using the
> > Daytona 500 to market your product is a great move -- but what are
> > prospective new buyers of your NASCAR sim going to think of
> > Sierra/Papyrus when they buy N3 -- after reading the packaging and
> > believing that ALL the NASCAR tracks are included -- and then
> > discovering that they DON'T get Daytona? It's not like they'll be
> > missing Martinsville or Las Vegas [no offense to Martinsville and
> Vegas
> > fans -- BB].

> > I think this is beyond misleading, and does not reflect at all well on
> > Sierra/Papyrus. I think the fact that it's easy to perceive your
> > packaging and web "features" list is intentionally misleading also
> > promotes and legitimizes, in some peoples' minds, pirating Daytona and
> > offering it for download, possibly even for sale, on the Web -- you
> know
> > that it's happened before, with Indianapolis, and you have to know
> > somebody's going to do it with Daytona.

> > As a Sierra customer, I'd like to know what possible motivation you
> > could have for this ultimately self-injurious misinformation in your
> advertising.

> > Thanks for your time.

> > Bart Brown

> > -----------------------------------------------

> > >> Unlike the NR1999 retail box which detailed which tracks were
> > included, the
> > > language on the N3 box would lead anyone with even a cursory
> knowledge of
> > > NASCAR racing to assume that the premier track, Daytona, was
> included."

> Just what we need, more stinking lawyers involved.  More resources
taken
> away from the development team that must now be applied to the legal
dept.
> Gee Thanks for all your help!

> Mitch

> > I've also forwarded a copy to the Iowa State Attorney General's
Consumer
> > Fraud Division.

> >    Jim

> > > Marc--

> > > Exquisitely well-put and to the point. I've sent the following
> > question
> > > to Sierra, though I don't harbor any fantasies that I'll get a
> > straight
> > > answer -- or any answer at all:

> > > -----------------------------------------------

> > > The blurb on the NASCAR 3 packaging states:

> > > "The award-winning team that brought you the long-running NASCAR
> > Racing
> > > series of simulations has done it again. NASCAR Racing 3 includes
> > > updates for ALL [emphasis added] of the cars, tracks, and drivers
from
> > > the 1999 NASCAR Winston Cup and NASCAR Busch Series, Grand
National
> > > Division seasons."

> > > Even your N3 website states:
> > > "NASCAR Racing 3 will also include the cars and tracks from the
Busch
> > > Grand National series.

> > > As you well know, this isn't true -- the most important track in
ANY
> > > NASCAR Cup and Busch season, Daytona, is only available as a demo
> > under
> > > very special circumstances.

> > > As someone on rec.autos.simulators quite correctly observed, using
the
> > > Daytona 500 to market your product is a great move -- but what are
> > > prospective new buyers of your NASCAR sim going to think of
> > > Sierra/Papyrus when they buy N3 -- after reading the packaging and
> > > believing that ALL the NASCAR tracks are included -- and then
> > > discovering that they DON'T get Daytona? It's not like they'll be
> > > missing Martinsville or Las Vegas [no offense to Martinsville and
> > Vegas
> > > fans -- BB].

> > > I think this is beyond misleading, and does not reflect at all
well on
> > > Sierra/Papyrus. I think the fact that it's easy to perceive your
> > > packaging and web "features" list is intentionally misleading also
> > > promotes and legitimizes, in some peoples' minds, pirating Daytona
and
> > > offering it for download, possibly even for sale, on the Web --
you
> > know
> > > that it's happened before, with Indianapolis, and you have to know
> > > somebody's going to do it with Daytona.

> > > As a Sierra customer, I'd like to know what possible motivation
you
> > > could have for this ultimately self-injurious misinformation in
your
> > advertising.

> > > Thanks for your time.

> > > Bart Brown

> > > -----------------------------------------------

> > > >> Unlike the NR1999 retail box which detailed which tracks were
> > > included, the
> > > > language on the N3 box would lead anyone with even a cursory
> > knowledge of
> > > > NASCAR racing to assume that the premier track, Daytona, was
> > included."

> Just what we need, more stinking lawyers involved.  More resources taken
> away from the development team that must now be applied to the legal dept.
> Gee Thanks for all your help!

> As long as you realise that this American penchant for calling in lawyers
> for every possible action and complaint is what got all of us (sim racers)
> in to this licensing mess in the first place.

> Marc

> Get real. Unless Sierra's dragging people out of Legal to do their
> coding, it's not terribly likely that development will suffer; and while
> I'm as dismayed at anyone about the frivolously litigious nature of
> modern society -- and not just America's: I read all about it in the
> Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal papers, too -- it seems rather
> disingenuous for people to publicly whine about Sierra/Papyrus' lack of
> "truth in advertising" and then refuse to contemplate the only recourse
> we have, as consumers, to possibly do something about it. Connecticut
> has a very active Consumer Affairs department within the Attorney
> General's office, and AG*** Blumenthal has laid down some hard law on
> behalf of consumers, without which we would have been entirely at the
> mercy of, for example, Northeast Utilities, which attempted to pass
> along the uncontrollable costs of their completely failed nuclear power
> generation plan to every electric customer in the state.

> Truth in advertising is no joke, and this particular chicanery on the
> part of Sierra/Papyrus is hardly something new for that particular
> company. If all you care to do is***and moan about it, without taking
> any action -- fruitless as it may seem -- then you have no m***ground
> to complain about getting shafted, and you certainly have no business
> criticizing anyone who at least *tries* to remedy the situation.

> As for the "licensing mess," it wasn't the "American penchant for
> calling in lawyers" that started it, it was big corporate lawyers
> looking to milk every penny out of every possible use of trademarks and
> registered names, and also looking to avoid any possible grounds for
> suit for using someone ELSE's trademarks. The current situation with
> Mattel and Ferrari is an excellent example. Corporations like Sierra
> have legal staffs to handle this sort of thing -- and I'm sure the
> present case with Daytona is some trademark hassle with ISC/NASCAR, just
> as it was before with Tony George/IMS, just as it always has been and
> seemingly always WILL be with Bernie Ecclestone/FOCA/FIA/FOA/whatever.
> All we customers have to counter such rubbish are consumer laws, like
> "truth in advertising". So it's either that, or bend over and smile.
> Instead, you guys want to bend over and ***. Not good enough...

> BB

> > Just what we need, more stinking lawyers involved.  More resources taken
> > away from the development team that must now be applied to the legal
dept.
> > Gee Thanks for all your help!

> > As long as you realise that this American penchant for calling in
lawyers
> > for every possible action and complaint is what got all of us (sim
racers)
> > in to this licensing mess in the first place.

> > Marc

> > I am bending over and using the Daytona track in my full version of N3.
> As
> > I said in my original post, it seems somewhat equitable to me.  I don't
> > think the "false advertising" on the N3 box is so bad that we need to
> launch
> > a class action suit or have some state AG try to go after them.  But it
> > shouldn't be there, anymore than a hacked Daytona should be on my hard
> > drive.  Papy has to take a certain stance in everything they do if they
> ever

> What the hell is all this babble about??? Just use the track and shut
> the hell up :-)

> --

> Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

> cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com