rec.autos.simulators

by **Larr** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 07:08:16

Refresh rates are not an issue on LCD's. It's the pixel response time
that's the issue.

Most are 25ms. You really want one of the newer 16ms displays for the best
results.

-Larry

> What kinda refresh rates can u guys get on lcd screens? From what ive seen
> the main prob with lcd's is the only support low refresh rates especially
at
> higher res. Personally ive never seen a lcd that gives a better picture
than
> a crt
> dan

> > > At 1280x1024, you really need at least a Radeon 9700 Pro or better or
> > frame
> > > rate will be compromised. The alternative would be to run a GF4 Ti at
> > > 1280x1024x16bit to maintain good frame rates. GPL is the exception -
it
> > > runs in 16-bit and only 36fps so most half-decent video cards are
> capable
> > of
> > > that.

> > Not necessarily true, unless you measure a Radeon 9700 Pro and a GeForce
4
> > Ti4200 as comparable cards. First off, you're not saying what game
you're
> > playing. I have a LCD 18", and with my GF4 Ti200 FIC runs perfectly
fine
> at
> > 1280x1024x32. Now with Nascar 2003, I drop down a bit and never run the
> > game in 32 bit, usually running in 1152x864. But even with most of the
> > options on and running N2003 in 1280x1024x32 I get at least 40 fps, full
> > field, in the back, with all cars drawn. I just prefer to get a bit
> higher
> > so I run in a lower resolution.

> > And of course the processor speed might have something to do with it,
> also.
> > But I disagree with your opening statement-- and especially for F1C--
you
> > don't need all you say you need (LCD).

> > Alanb

by **Larr** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 07:09:42

My God, VAT is 17.5 %?

Holy shit.

-Larry

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> Iain

> > > Refresh rates are irrelevent with LCD's, it is the pixel response rate
> > > (lower the better) that governs the *** quality.

> > There are some fairly good ones coming out now Dan with pixel response
> rates
> > <25, which i think is good enough for smear-free ***. I'm still not
> > convinced at the minute either, but i'm open to changing my mind.

> > Ash
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

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by **Larr** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 07:11:55

I HAVE used LCD's for *** and Pixel Response Rate most certainly IS a
consideration.

However, I am in agreement that not all LCD's have great gradiation
properties, or black levels. Unfortunately, the ratings of Contrast Ratio's
are up to each manufacturer, and the don't all use the same baseline when
coming up with their numbers. Ditto for brightness levels.

This is an issue that has had a lot of discussion recently.

-Larry

> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:13:28 +0100, "Ashley McConnell"

> >There are some fairly good ones coming out now Dan with pixel response
rates
> ><25, which i think is good enough for smear-free ***. I'm still not
> >convinced at the minute either, but i'm open to changing my mind.

> >Ash

> Reponse timing is not an issue with me when it comes to *** on an
> LCD so let's discount that as a reason not to buy an LCD now. All you
> non LCD gamers are always bringing that issue up and it really is not
> as big an issue as you think it is. The only issue I have with LCD is
> that they do not display gradations in the dark tones as well as CRT.
> In games that use lots of dark areas it is quite noticeable.

by **Larr** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 07:19:16

One more thing to consider...

If you own an LCD long enough, it WILL eventually need a backlight
replacement.

I service Laptops all day long, and with the exception of Hard Drives (no
one makes a reliable 2.5" hard drive yet IMHO), LCD Backlights are the most
common failure. I have to repair several dozen a year.

IMHO, Backlight failures and repairs are the dirty-little-secret of the LCD
industry. If you are under warranty, you are fine. If you are out of
warranty, you are truly screwed. Don't think you can replace a $20 light
bulb. You SHOULD be able to, but they won't do it. No, they will charge
you for an ENTIRE panel assembly and it's a rip-off.

14-15" IBM Laptop repairs for bad backlights out of warranty cost around
$900. Yes, I said Nine-Hundred-Dollars for a $20 or so light bulb.

And as far as I know all manufacturers will not simply replace your
backlight.

Watch your warranty. Some LCD's have one year warranties. Some have three
year warranties. The most dispicable warranties are the one's that provide
three year warranties, but only one year on the backlight. WATCH OUT FOR
THIS!

Also it doesn't hurt to research the manufacturers dead/stuck-pixel policy.
This one is all over the board.

-Larry

> Wow!!! Lots of response. I have the following setup:
> AMD XP 1700+ at 11x215=2365mhz
> 512mb of Corsair DDR
> Geforce 4 4200

> I would think that would be good enough. I tried a Samsung 19" LCD at Best
> Buy and the smearing was terrible!!! I think it was the 191t or the 192t.
> From what i have read most of the 17" monitors have a better response
time.
> I wonder if the 17" lcd would look a lot smaller than my 19 crt? Thanks
> again guys for all the input.

> > No problems with my Dell 1800FP 18" LCD. I run both NR2003 and F1C at
> > 1280x1024x16 (cant tell the difference between the 2 if you ask me).
> > Nice and bright, no blur that I can see and I get in the high 40's
> > with usual settings for NR2003 and way up in the 60's and 70's with
> > F1C and almost all the settings at FULL. BTW.....GF4 Ti4200 128 mb.

> > I am sure that CRT's offer a better image quality, but to get a huge
> > CRT (19" or up, which is equal to my LCD in screen size) you'd have to
> > reinforce your desk for the weight and the physical size.

by **Brian Bowle** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 08:01:29

Thanks Larry lots of good information

> You definitely want to get one with a 16ms response time, and read
reviews!
> Many LCD's are not fast enough for *** and it causes blurry motion.

> The ScreenSavers on TechTV covered this a while back, and the LCD's they
use
> on-stage for their Thursday LAN parties seem to be ok. They are
> NEC/Mitsubishi 1880's or something like that.

> -Larry

> > I may need to replace my monitor and I was wonder if anyone has had
> > experience with LCD monitors and racing games like F1C or GPL.
> > Thanks!!!

by **Ian** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 08:26:04

> My God, VAT is 17.5 %?

> Holy shit.

> -Larry

Yep, the Great British ripoff.
You wanna see how much tax we pay on fuel !! Actually, you probably don't.

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spammers>

by **Jone Tytlandsvi** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:32:17

24% where I am...

Jone
Norway (or No Way!)

by **Jone Tytlandsvi** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:41:28

It's not a light bulb is it? Isn't it some kind of light emitting sheet that
covers the whole screen and needs 100 or so Volts to light up?
Would it be a technically easy task to replace them instead of replacing the
whole screen?

--
Jone Tytlandsvik
http://tytlandsvik.no

by **Karl Hein** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:08:55

Picked up a Samsung Syncmaster 191T a few weeks ago. Superb for racing
sims. No "ghosting"/"smearing" at all. Sharp, bright. Actual screen real
estate nearly as big as a 21" CRT. Read a differing opinion somewhere in
this discussion, I don't have a clue what they are talking about. I am
using in digital mode with digital port on Ti4200, 2.4 ghz P4. Maybe the
one they were looking at was running in analog. When checking out monitors
at a store, who knows what the setup might be. All I know is that this
thing is slick. Love it.

KH

by **Brian Bowle** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 12:03:14

Thanks Karl I was the one that saw ghosting. I will have to go back and see
if it was hooked up analogue. I bet you are right! Thanks!!!

> > I may need to replace my monitor and I was wonder if anyone has had
> > experience with LCD monitors and racing games like F1C or GPL.
> > Thanks!!!

> Picked up a Samsung Syncmaster 191T a few weeks ago. Superb for racing
> sims. No "ghosting"/"smearing" at all. Sharp, bright. Actual screen
real
> estate nearly as big as a 21" CRT. Read a differing opinion somewhere in
> this discussion, I don't have a clue what they are talking about. I am
> using in digital mode with digital port on Ti4200, 2.4 ghz P4. Maybe the
> one they were looking at was running in analog. When checking out
monitors
> at a store, who knows what the setup might be. All I know is that this
> thing is slick. Love it.

> KH

by **Andrew MacPhers** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:04:00

> Yep, the Great British ripoff.

I like VAT, it's a very democratic tax.

Not enough ;-)

Andrew McP

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:38:37

> My God, VAT is 17.5 %?

> Holy shit.

try 24% here....

Which when you appreciate the benefits of having your own little shop, I
don't pay VAT on things I can justify as needed from a business
POV.....you'd be surprised of what you need when you run a small
computer shop :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Damien Smit** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:29:04

50ms? Surely that means a maximum of 20 frames per second? (Or is it
40fps?) ....not good either way....

by ae » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:54:21

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 20:29:04 +1000, "Damien Smith"

>> Agreed on the dark tone issue. On the response time thing; 50 ms is fast
>> enough for *** going by my own proview 17" LCD.

>50ms? Surely that means a maximum of 20 frames per second? (Or is it
>40fps?) ....not good either way....

Do a bit of research on the net about response rates, you are very
misguided.

Andrew.

by **Damien Smit** » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:47:31

Nope. Can't find anything. Share your wisdom.

rec.autos.simulators

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?

How are LCD Monitors for racing?