rec.autos.simulators

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

Klin

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Klin » Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:50:06

With all the posts about N4's problems with AI, I expected to experience a
lot of problems. But actually, I'm impressed with it. I'm halfway through my
first attempt at the Championship season. I can't recall any times the AI
came down into me or rode up. The times when I thought I had a beef, I
checked the replay and realized that I was the one that had slipped out of
the usual groove. They were just holding their line (high or low). And on
many occasions I've poked my nose in under them going into a turn, from
quite a distance back, and the AI has made room for me. I'm no NASCAR
expert, so I've probably missed some of the fine points, but the AI seems
better to me than many other sims I've played.

This evening I just had a great battle with 'Little E' at Sears Point. I was
trying to shoulder him aside going through the last hairpin (carousel?) but
he got a better launch out and beat me up the hill, I took him on the inside
but carried too much speed and went wide in the next corner and he snuck
underneath, etc, etc - great fun leaning on each other for few laps until I
was finally able to get past.

And that Pocono track! Man - this is the first sim I have that includes it,
and what a wild change of pace from all the others. Did the blueprint get
folded over when the contractor went to build it? <g>

BTW, the Championship points table doesn't seem to include any of the pole
positions I managed to get. Aren't you supposed to get bonus points for
that?

And finally, at the risk of stirring up Mr. TRUSRS85 <g>, when I'm zipping
around tracks like Michigan I can't help but wish it was in a CART rocket.
With a Hartford device (sp?) to promote passing and make you puzzle out
last-lap tactics. Sigh.

        ...Klinn

Cliff Roma

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Cliff Roma » Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:12:23

In Nascar you do not get any bonus points for getting the Pole, although I
wish they would.


Don Burnett

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Don Burnett » Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:01:50

Nice to hear Klinn, it is truly a great sim and should only get better.
In Nascar, you do not get any bonus points for getting the pole.

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.


Marc Collin

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Marc Collin » Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:40:24

You don't have AI that ignore cautionary incidents and just ram their way
through...making a small incident into a wreck half the field fiasco?  What
settings are you using for realism, how many AI and what percentage do you
have the AI set to?

I am on full field, 100% and all realism settings maxed out...and it happens
at every track I've been to.

Marc.


Jerry Jona

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Jerry Jona » Fri, 09 Mar 2001 05:20:50

Has not happened once since I bought the game ! Better check your settings
somethings seriously wrong with
your install. What settings are you using, please give a full description
and what system configuration do you have? Perhaps we can help as somthings
not right with your
setup.The only time I've experienced any problems
have been with that ***Nascar Heat, but we all know that would be
expected.


Eldre

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Eldre » Fri, 09 Mar 2001 06:48:29



>With all the posts about N4's problems with AI, I expected to experience a
>lot of problems. But actually, I'm impressed with it. I'm halfway through my
>first attempt at the Championship season. I can't recall any times the AI
>came down into me or rode up. The times when I thought I had a beef, I
>checked the replay and realized that I was the one that had slipped out of
>the usual groove. They were just holding their line (high or low). And on
>many occasions I've poked my nose in under them going into a turn, from
>quite a distance back, and the AI has made room for me. I'm no NASCAR
>expert, so I've probably missed some of the fine points, but the AI seems
>better to me than many other sims I've played.

How many AI cars do you run with?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Klin

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Klin » Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:40:42

Hi Marc,

The settings for N4 I'm using for the Championship are: simulation mode, AI
only 90%, race length 10% (the default), # opponents 20 (default),
damage=moderate, all rules on (full pace lap, yellows, double-file
restarts).

I wish I had set the AI strength higher when I started the Championship
season. I put it there after running a few single races at different levels
& tracks. It allowed me a chance to catch up if I did something dumb. Now
that I've got more experience with the car, and how to drive NASCAR tracks a
bit better, I'm not making as many mistakes and the AI isn't providing
enough of a challenge. Hmmm, I just checked and I should be able to edit the
player.ini file to modify the AI strength without starting the season all
over again. I'll probably double the race length too. Like others, I wish
Papy included an optional wear-rate/gas-consumption multiplier to force pit
stops at more frequent intervals.

Anyway, at those settings I've haven't seen the AI doing any of the ***
things you (and others) have noticed. Perhaps increasing the AI strength
also makes them more aggressive, not just faster, and therefore more likely
to charge into the wrong place at the wrong time? I'll see if I notice any
change after editing the player.ini file.

        ...Klinn


Klin

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Klin » Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:51:44

Hi Eldred,

I'm running with 20 opponent cars, which was the default when I installed
the game. At the time I was running a P550 with a Voodoo 3000, and 20 cars
seemed to be about the limit as far as getting decent frame rates anyway, so
I left it as is. Now that I've perked up my system (P3 1000/GeForce2 GTS)
I'm going to try a full field. There's more details about my settings in my
reply to Marc Collins above.

        ...Klinn

P.S. Yikes! I just noticed in your sig that you're almost beating me in
GPLRank! That's what I get for slacking off - I need to re-commit myself to
that ol' GPL religion. <g>


Klin

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Klin » Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:57:34

I spoke too soon - I changed the championship AI strength line in my
player.ini file to 100, but when I started N4 and continued the
championship, it still showed an AI strength of 90. And it played that way
too. I checked the player.ini again and it had been reset by the program. So
it must be saved somewhere else, probably within the championship "seasons"
file itself. This is in binary format so it would be a little harder to find
& change, and frankly, I'm too lazy <grin>. Looks like I'll have to start
the Championship over again.

        ...Klinn


Marc Collin

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Marc Collin » Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:20:55

I already gave you my settings--everything set to 100% full realism.  I have
an extremely fast system that allows me to run N4 with a full field at 1600
x 1200 resolution and still get 30+ fps.  This is very interesting as I have
read about 50 messages (here and elsewhere) from people pointing out the AI
ignore accidents and just pile into them.  If it only happens when the game
is set to certain settings, it will be fascinating to see what they are.

Marc.


> Has not happened once since I bought the game ! Better check your settings
> somethings seriously wrong with
> your install. What settings are you using, please give a full description
> and what system configuration do you have? Perhaps we can help as
somthings
> not right with your
> setup.The only time I've experienced any problems
> have been with that ***Nascar Heat, but we all know that would be
> expected.



> > You don't have AI that ignore cautionary incidents and just ram their
way
> > through...making a small incident into a wreck half the field fiasco?

Klin

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Klin » Sun, 11 Mar 2001 08:21:16


Well, I've just tried a number of races at Las Vegas with the AI at 100%.
Now I know what everyone is complaining about! Besides simply speeding up,
they now seem to race "tighter". That is, leaving next to no room for error.
So if I bobble a little bit, or they do, it's a touch & a spin. Or if they
are overtaking from the top and slide down to get in front of me, they
really pinch me down. Again, leaving very little room for error. The fender
touches seem worse too - maybe they don't pull away as much or as quickly,
so it's more likely to lead to a spin.

There also seem to be more pile ups now, it seems the AI comes screaming
around heading for tiny gaps or trying to just barely miss the other cars
and assuming that they won't move by the time they get there. Wrong. Oops.
Bang. And there are more cases where the AI cars meld into one another while
racing side by side.

Maybe the reduced gaps in this "tighter" racing AI are more life-like, but
it sure is more difficult to handle when you don't have true 3D (binocular)
vision to help you estimate them easily. I backed off the AI to 95% and it
seemed much more reasonable. Still a challenge, for me anyway, but with a
bit more slack in the door-to-door jostling.

        ...Klinn

Eldre

N4 Musings - AI OK, Pocono, etc

by Eldre » Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:05:51



>P.S. Yikes! I just noticed in your sig that you're almost beating me in
>GPLRank! That's what I get for slacking off - I need to re-commit myself to
>that ol' GPL religion. <g>

Don't worry about it - I can't seem to catch the people I'm chasing.  I sorta
gave up for a while...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.


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