rec.autos.simulators

by **Brian Oste** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:40:59

I don't know why everyone is complaining about the track selection. I
have not run ANY of the tracks before, not in the trucks or in TA or
in gpl and I like all the tracks. I really don't know what we would
have substituted.... ran Road Atlanta 12 times.

Brian Oster

>I did ZZ.

>And no I hadnt run some of these tracks.

>What some of you seem to keep forgetting is that this is an experimental
>"Winter" series. We said that from the outset that we were going to
>experiment with a few things that we never would during the cup season. We
>did and we've learned allot from this experience.

>When we first made the RASCAR change I'd hoped we could use a more
>democratic process to decide issues like this. We tried it and it failed
>miserably. All we ended up with was 8-10 guys each with their own ideas
>that none of which ever seemed to materialize into anything other than talk.
>If you feel strongly about something then bring it up. We try as hard as we
>can to be as fair as possible to everyone.

>Mitch

>silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys?

>> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a vote
>up
>> on RSC forums, ok?

>> --
>> Richard "ZZ" Busch

>> Member:
>> Screamers Racing League
>> OAO
>> CORS
>> MARA TransAm
>> RASCAR
>> GPL Rank + 17.415
>> MoGPL Rank + 318.586
>> N2002 Rank + 7.695
>> TransAm Rank ??

by **Brian Oste** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:44:01

Didn't you mean "...tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that they
rarely contact the FAKE ashpalt" :)

>I think he meant that the tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that they
>rarely contact the ashpalt :)

>> >I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are
>> >almost never in contact with the road.

>> Almost never in contact? What does THAT mean - you're always on the
>grass?

>> Eldred
>> --
>> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
>> Member
>> Screamers Racing League
>> IICC League
>> GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80
>> ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71
>> Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress
>> N2k3 rank:in progress

>> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Brian Oste** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:53:53

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:07:32 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"

>Seconded. On the other hand some of the drivers don't get a lot of practise
>at road racing and both track and setup were not conductive to straight,
>controlled braking.

>BTW: the incident at Le Mans I accused Brian Oster of, was a practise
>incident. So that was a little uncalled for and I apologise.

>Jan.
>=---

NP Jan. Of course, I guess you could make the argument that I was
practicing on punting you.... sort of a pre-meditated punt :)

Brian Oster

by **JLe** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:26:09

I'm still pissed & gutted about the start and I dont even know if I gotta
blame myself or anyone else.
First start I'm too fast ending up T-boning Brian in T1.
So second start I'm being carefull and there's 2 cars *flying* passed me
well before T1. That makes me even more carefull and slow, so I***up
T1,2/3 got punted flip over about 5 times and loose the engine
:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((.

by **John Simmon** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:46:50

Well, it wasn't meant as a wrom, it was meant as an "I told you so..."

This just proves that computer geeks should not use power tools any more
dangerous than a battery operated***driver.

If you had called an ambulance, they would wheel you past all the cold
and flu people in the waiting room. Oh yeah, you could also complain of
chest pains, and that will bump yopu up in the queue.

by **David G Fishe** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:24:50

Tire wear wasnt an issue for me either. I had more than 3/4 green all the
way around in the 17 lap practice race, and on lap 20 when I pitted in the
main race.

David G Fisher

> I liked the track also. I didn't have any tire wear too speak of
> (until I looped it one lap, but that is to be expected). They did
> start to get slick around lap 20, but you just had to be easier on the
> brakes and gas. How many of you with tire wear issues were using
> driving aids? The patch did say that it would excelerate tire wear
> when using driving aids.

> Brian Oster

> >I honestly like the track. There were a lot of other issues, but once I
got
> >a rhythm going the track started to be a lot of fun. AFAIK high tire
wear
> >happens at this track in real life too. I think there were primarily two
> >big problems. First we weren't able to settle on a setup with which
> >everybody felt comfortable, and even that got picked very late, forcing
> >people to adapt in the last few days before the race. Secondly the
"ideal
> >race line" for this track is incorrect. Not my opinion (I'm no expert)
but
> >based on real life in-car footage and discussions of the track I have
read
> >in books the race line was wrong, which meant a lot of people were trying
to
> >drive a non-ideal line, and a very uncomfortable one at that. In
particular
> >the line through most of the closely connected turns was not the way it
is
> >driven in real life, and that is exactly where people were having
trouble.
> >I tried to drive the correct line and to the degree that I was able to do
it
> >the track felt a lot more comfortable.

> >> I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires are
> >> almost never in contact with the road.
> >> 15 Laps and my tires were so slippery, I had to stop. I think pit speed
of
> >> 35 mph was quite silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok
boys?

> >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a
vote
> >up
> >> on RSC forums, ok?

> >> --
> >> Richard "ZZ" Busch

> >> Member:
> >> Screamers Racing League
> >> OAO
> >> CORS
> >> MARA TransAm
> >> RASCAR
> >> GPL Rank + 17.415
> >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586
> >> N2002 Rank + 7.695
> >> TransAm Rank ??

by **David G Fishe** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:30:45

And then *you* end up not racing in RASCAR anymore.

Things are better now. Everyone's opinion is heard, and it IS being run by a
group.

The racing is better, and there's a fraction of the soap opera nonsense.

The insults are waaaay down. Best thing is, nobody has said that BS line,
"It's my server/my league, if you don't like it, then get the f**k out."

Sorry to disappoint you.

David G Fisher

by **John Simmon** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:41:12

says...

Believe me, if I had been responsible for running the server, *you* and
Mitch would have been ejected long before it got out of hand.

Yeah whatever. Everyone's opinion was heard when me and Eldred were
running things too, and decisions were made based on our past experience
as league admins and was often based on the opinions of the drivers.
Sadly, your constant whiney-little-girl act drowned out everything else
that was going on, even the stuff I was trying to do to convince
everyone to drive smarter so that we wouldn't have to institute ***
little arbitrary and unrealistic restrictons like not racing back to the
caution, or not passing until after T1.

You think that's because of something *you* did? You didn't do anything
to improve the racing - the drivers did, and despite it's being
"better", more often than not, it appears that you still have a L1/T1
problem in pretty much every race How are you going to fix that?
Restrict passing until, like, lap five or something?

Don't kid yourself, Dave. The only measurable or visible friction that
existed was caused by you when you were attacking me.

By the way, I notice that every once in a while you join my server just
to see if you can. As long as you drive with your head on your
shoulders instead of up your ass , you'll be able to race there.
(Mediacal note - nine out of ten doctors have stated that moving your
head from your ass to your shoulders long enough to complete a race can
be uncomfortable, so I guess I can see why you don't stick around long
enough to complete a lap.)

Finally, my server - my rules (and the rule set is fluid). If anyone
screws up and it even smells like it was on purpose or meant as a test
to see if I'm really serious, or if anyone continues a demonstrated lack
of ability to stay out of trouble on the racing surface, they'll be
banned. I haven't had to ban anyone yet, but maybe that's because I only
run trans am races, and only drivers that are serious about their
driving stick around after qualifying.

by **Brian Oste** » Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:55:48

I think the first start may have been my fault. I think I slowed way
to much and may have cut you off. I don't have a replay obviously,
but I think that is what happened. I didn't get t-boned though, no one
touched me (are you talking about the other Brian perhaps?).

One thing I have never liked about N2003 is the spotter waits until
your half way through a lap before he starts letting you know when you
are clear and when someone is beside you... guess he misses the start
waiting in line to get nachos or something.

Brian Oster

>> One thing I want to bring up Hal after reading this.

>> WE DONT RACE TO THE FIRST CORNER......

>I'm still pissed & gutted about the start and I dont even know if I gotta
>blame myself or anyone else.
>First start I'm too fast ending up T-boning Brian in T1.
>So second start I'm being carefull and there's 2 cars *flying* passed me
>well before T1. That makes me even more carefull and slow, so I***up
>T1,2/3 got punted flip over about 5 times and loose the engine
>:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((.

by **Mitch_** » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:33:42

hehe, yea thats it :)

> Didn't you mean "...tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that they
> rarely contact the FAKE ashpalt" :)

> >I think he meant that the tires bounce so much on those fake bumps that
they
> >rarely contact the ashpalt :)

> >> >I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires
are
> >> >almost never in contact with the road.

> >> Almost never in contact? What does THAT mean - you're always on the
> >grass?

> >> Eldred
> >> --
> >> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> >> Member
> >> Screamers Racing League
> >> IICC League
> >> GPLRank -6.0 MoGPL rank +267.80
> >> ChallengeRank +52.58 MoC +741.71
> >> Hist. +82.34 MoH in progress
> >> N2k3 rank:in progress

> >> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Larr** » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:36:08

You'll get NO argument from me :)

-Larry

by **Larr** » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:38:29

I was in the yellow at all 4 corners after the practice race.

I had a few 'issues' during the main, so I can't tell you :)

-Larry

> Tire wear wasnt an issue for me either. I had more than 3/4 green all the
> way around in the 17 lap practice race, and on lap 20 when I pitted in the
> main race.

> David G Fisher

> > I liked the track also. I didn't have any tire wear too speak of
> > (until I looped it one lap, but that is to be expected). They did
> > start to get slick around lap 20, but you just had to be easier on the
> > brakes and gas. How many of you with tire wear issues were using
> > driving aids? The patch did say that it would excelerate tire wear
> > when using driving aids.

> > Brian Oster

> > >I honestly like the track. There were a lot of other issues, but once
I
> got
> > >a rhythm going the track started to be a lot of fun. AFAIK high tire
> wear
> > >happens at this track in real life too. I think there were primarily
two
> > >big problems. First we weren't able to settle on a setup with which
> > >everybody felt comfortable, and even that got picked very late, forcing
> > >people to adapt in the last few days before the race. Secondly the
> "ideal
> > >race line" for this track is incorrect. Not my opinion (I'm no expert)
> but
> > >based on real life in-car footage and discussions of the track I have
> read
> > >in books the race line was wrong, which meant a lot of people were
trying
> to
> > >drive a non-ideal line, and a very uncomfortable one at that. In
> particular
> > >the line through most of the closely connected turns was not the way it
> is
> > >driven in real life, and that is exactly where people were having
> trouble.
> > >I tried to drive the correct line and to the degree that I was able to
do
> it
> > >the track felt a lot more comfortable.

> > >> I was surprised at the tire wear. It's surprising because the tires
are
> > >> almost never in contact with the road.
> > >> 15 Laps and my tires were so slippery, I had to stop. I think pit
speed
> of
> > >> 35 mph was quite silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok
> boys?

> > >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a
> vote
> > >up
> > >> on RSC forums, ok?

> > >> --
> > >> Richard "ZZ" Busch

> > >> Member:
> > >> Screamers Racing League
> > >> OAO
> > >> CORS
> > >> MARA TransAm
> > >> RASCAR
> > >> GPL Rank + 17.415
> > >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586
> > >> N2002 Rank + 7.695
> > >> TransAm Rank ??

by **Larr** » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:41:27

Fer Sure!!!

-Larry

by **Mitch_** » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:38:34

I can see it already. 14 votes 14 different tracks :)

Mitch

> You'll get NO argument from me :)

> -Larry

> > Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a vote
> up
> > on RSC forums, ok?

> > --
> > Richard "ZZ" Busch

> > Member:
> > Screamers Racing League
> > OAO
> > CORS
> > MARA TransAm
> > RASCAR
> > GPL Rank + 17.415
> > MoGPL Rank + 318.586
> > N2002 Rank + 7.695
> > TransAm Rank ??

by **Larr** » Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:51:17

I really haven't minded the tracks.

The setups are another story :)

I didn't even mind Sebring that much, even though I had bad luck.

I'm not crazy about Nosring, but I've said so and I'll now just be a good
boy and shut up about it :)

I _AM_ of the strong opinion that since none of the setups were really
tested, we should have run open setups. Let's face it, the aliens are going
to kick our non-alien asses either way. I'm quite fine with that. They
deserve it because they are a lot better than me at Road Courses. One
day... :) With open setups those of us who are not experts at these places
could have at least tweaked the setups to be _comfortable_ for us so we
could enjoy our race more.

Not being a setup expert at road courses, for me that would have just meant
taking the standard setup and tweaking the brake bias, gears and possibly
sway bars to make the car more comfortable.

-Larry

> I don't know why everyone is complaining about the track selection. I
> have not run ANY of the tracks before, not in the trucks or in TA or
> in gpl and I like all the tracks. I really don't know what we would
> have substituted.... ran Road Atlanta 12 times.

> Brian Oster

> >I did ZZ.

> >And no I hadnt run some of these tracks.

> >What some of you seem to keep forgetting is that this is an experimental
> >"Winter" series. We said that from the outset that we were going to
> >experiment with a few things that we never would during the cup season.
We
> >did and we've learned allot from this experience.

> >When we first made the RASCAR change I'd hoped we could use a more
> >democratic process to decide issues like this. We tried it and it failed
> >miserably. All we ended up with was 8-10 guys each with their own ideas
> >that none of which ever seemed to materialize into anything other than
talk.
> >If you feel strongly about something then bring it up. We try as hard as
we
> >can to be as fair as possible to everyone.

> >Mitch

> >silly. Let's check that on the next two tracks, ok boys?

> >> Who picked these tracks anyway? Next road course season let's put a
vote
> >up
> >> on RSC forums, ok?

> >> --
> >> Richard "ZZ" Busch

> >> Member:
> >> Screamers Racing League
> >> OAO
> >> CORS
> >> MARA TransAm
> >> RASCAR
> >> GPL Rank + 17.415
> >> MoGPL Rank + 318.586
> >> N2002 Rank + 7.695
> >> TransAm Rank ??

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