rec.autos.simulators

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

Jim Getze

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Jim Getze » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00

But that's silly. Why have the 25/8 rule at all? Why not just have all the
spots for the Indy 500 open to all comers? Why divide open wheel racing?

Jim

Greg Cisk

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Greg Cisk » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00




> > Is it just
> >because it's run at IMS and is a 500 mile race?

> (again, US).  Bingo.  Like real-estate, it's location, location, location.
> Well, really tradition, tradition, tradition.  It clearly has nothing to
do
> with the formula of car, nor the caliber of driver.  And as to quality or
> technical nature of the track itself?  Clearly, it's the name, the date,
the
> tradition.  And its living off of that reputation, just like most
has-beens.
> In this case however, it can return to a semblance of its former glory, if
> conscientious heads prevail.

I have been thinking about this some. The reason it is the "greatest
spectacle in motor racing" is because it features 33 openwheel
cars traveling at 220+ mph (average) racing for 500 miles. Formula 1
cars hit just 200 at the end of a long straight if they are lucky.

--


Greg Cisk

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Greg Cisk » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00


Oh gee my apologies. My claim of 20 spots reserved for IRL
teams seems so way out of line... Yes... 25/8 seems so much
more reasonable. What was I thinking?!?!

Are you sure it was a hurdle??? Very surprising statement coming
from and IRL apologist like yourself.

Sure...

Sure.

(but you did prove all my points)

Whatever...

--


Eldre

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Eldre » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00

I really don't think the speed is the issue.  It would probably be just as
exciting if the cars only did 200.
I also think the F1 cars *could* be engineered for higher straight speeds.
They're not because handling is a premium at most F1 tracks, maybe...?

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

m.seer

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by m.seer » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00

Dropped, kicked out, walked away...All scemantics. I did say for whatever
reason. Agreed, I'm no CART,Indy, USAC or whatever expert <G>That was not my
point though.

MS



> > Greg I was only joking but one thing from your post springs to mind.

> > > IRL will not admit
> > > they are the minor league of american openwheel racing. How
> > > can they when they race in the premier openwheel american
> > > race; the Indy 500?

> > The Indy 500 was dropped from CART for whatever political or practical

> The 500 was not dropped by CART. Tony George (the person apparently
> in charge of the track) essentially kicked tCART out by starting a new
> league.
> For the first year, the IRL members were guarranteed at least 20 starting
> spots regardless of how the CART teams qualified. CART told them to
> stick it.

> The first year the IRL used year old CART chassis. Then the "developed"
> their own chassis and motors. The #1 mantra that IRL used was cheap
> cheap cheap. They complained (rightly) that CART was just too expensive
> for many teams to compete. Well DUH!!!

> > reasons and IRL benifited from it. Just one question. Why by definition
is
> > the Indy 500 still considered the premier open wheeled race? Is it just
> > because it's run at IMS and is a 500 mile race? If this is the case you

> Yep... Certainly not because the IRL cars (essentially NASCAR openwheel
> cars) are more advanced than CART or Formula 1 cars. And most certainly
> not because the IRL drivers are better. IRL is filled mostly with washed
out
> CART & F1 drivers. The *ONLY* IRL driver that I ever really liked from the
> start was Tony Steward. He used the IRL as a stepping stone to NASCAR.

> > might as well save the teams big bucks and run Formula Ford Chassis
there.
> > If it is not the case, what has IRL really got that stands out head and
> > shoulders over all other series and shouts "This race is still the
premier
> > open wheeled race"

> IRL has absolutely nothing except that they can run the indy 500.

> I personally (like many others) am totally insensed that Tony George
> completely porked the #1 race in the world. At one time the Indy
> cars were prototype cars directly competing with F1 for technical
> superiority. Neither one was really more advanced. And at one time
> the F1 cars were allowed to run the indy 500. I believe Lotus almost
> won the race one year because their F1 car needed 2 or 3 fewer
> fuel stops than everyone else...

> Now F1 is completely superior to CART as CART too is worried
> about  cost. Penske tried to make their own chassis and for the
> most part were a disaster.

> IRL is a kit car that *ANYONE* can buy and race. Wow...

> --


> > Just a provocative thought <G>

Eldre

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Eldre » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00

How many teams are in the IRL?  It there were more than 25, then that wouldn't
really guarantee you a spot, right?  It was the TOP 25 in IRL standings, wasn't
it?
You also had to *qualify* for said one lap race, too...<g>

Eldred

Olav K. Malm

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Olav K. Malm » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00


> >I have been thinking about this some. The reason it is the "greatest
> >spectacle in motor racing" is because it features 33 openwheel
> >cars traveling at 220+ mph (average) racing for 500 miles. Formula 1
> >cars hit just 200 at the end of a long straight if they are lucky.

> I really don't think the speed is the issue.  It would probably be just as
> exciting if the cars only did 200.
> I also think the F1 cars *could* be engineered for higher straight speeds.
> They're not because handling is a premium at most F1 tracks, maybe...?

Didn't Coulthard do 239 mph just before braking for the first chicane
at Hockenheim ?

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

Race15

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Race15 » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Dear Greg,
People like you are the reason I don't post much to RAS.  You have the innate
ability to take the meaning of a statement and turn it into a hard and fast
rule.  You TRY to misunderstand.  At least I hope that's the reason.  I thought
I spoke my opinion quietly and intelligently, but apparently it was lost on
you, as seen by your sophmoric responses.

One is an oval series and one is a roadracing series.

If you have been around racing long enough you would know that the original
reason for the series split was that CART wanted to keep the road racing dates
and Tony George wanted to go more towards ovals.  This was my MEANING.  Does
CART go to ovals?  Yes, of course they do. Does IRL go to road circuits.  No.
Not one.  So for all  PRACTICAL purposes, one is an oval series while one LEANS
HEAVILY towards road racing.

Five or Six top-flite drivers.  Eddie Cheever, Greg Ray, Al Unser Jr., Eliseo
Salazar, Scott Goodyear, Jeff Ward.  Any one of these guys could compete with
the drivers on the CART circuit and, in fact, have..  Although being the CART
fanatic you are I don't expect you to see it.

As for pit stops I saw Montoy's team blowing away VASSERS pit crew.  By far one
of the better pit crews I have seen this side of the Jeff Gordons Rainbow
warriors.

All in all a terrific race.  Period.  As for Montoya, he is on another planet.
No matter where he drives he will win.

Hopefully this will paint a better picture for you, although granted, it will
have to be in crayon.

Mike

Eldre

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Eldre » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00




>> >I have been thinking about this some. The reason it is the "greatest
>> >spectacle in motor racing" is because it features 33 openwheel
>> >cars traveling at 220+ mph (average) racing for 500 miles. Formula 1
>> >cars hit just 200 at the end of a long straight if they are lucky.

>> I really don't think the speed is the issue.  It would probably be just as
>> exciting if the cars only did 200.
>> I also think the F1 cars *could* be engineered for higher straight speeds.
>> They're not because handling is a premium at most F1 tracks, maybe...?

>Didn't Coulthard do 239 mph just before braking for the first chicane
>at Hockenheim ?

Hadn't heard that.  On a track like Hockenheim it wouldn't surprise me, though.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Race15

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Race15 » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

To Velocitas, who claimed that TG had the option of voting.  
All of what we talk about is simply opinion.  Best drivers, best cars, best
this and that.  
This is fact.  From the Archives at the Indianapolis News.  Nov 1993.  George
was AGAIN refused a vote in how open wheel racing went.  He eventually resigned
on January 8th 1994 when once more he was refused the right to vote.  Seems to
me someones ego is huge. And it just may be the officers of CART who stupidly
didn't allow him a vote.  How easy it would have been to avoid all this.  All
he wanted was one lousy vote!

Indycar shuffling again
By*** MITTMAN

Speedway president Tony George can help find a potential chairman for
Championship Auto Racing Teams. But he can't vote on who will get the job.
That was one of the results of an eight-hour IndyCar owners meeting Wednesday
at the Holiday Inn Airport.

Another was change of the board from five back to 24. Actually, it's 16, but
those owners with more than one franchise - Roger Penske, Carl Haas,***
Simon, Rick Galles, Derrick Walkerf and Dale Coyne - get additional votes.

Thus, the board is back where it was when it was called too unwieldy to reach
any decision and was trimmed to five. That was in July, 1992.

Coyne, Haas, Penske, Jim Hall and Walker called the shots for the past 15
months, with George and chairman William Stokkan, who was dismissed through a
buyout last week, were board members without a vote.

The same owners who created the five-man board began to complain they weren't
being represented properly. So it was back to a board containing all members.

George again was appointed as a non-voting member.

The new board then named a five-member committee to review potential chairmen
among four previously mentioned candidates and to interview any new ones they
might choose.

Carl Hogan, co-owner with driver Bobby Rahal of next year's first Honda entry,
will chair the committee. Other owners on the committee are Galles, Chip
Ganassi and Haas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Published: Thursday, November 11, 1993 in THE INDIANAPOLIS NEWS

Page: D05

? 1993 Indianapolis Newspapers, Inc.

Now do you get it?  He tried to do it their way.  How easy it would have been
to say, Yeah! Tony, go ahead and vote!
But as usual with the likes of Roger Penske, it all comes down to money.  Thats
why the more teams you own the more votes you get
What a shame.
Mike

Chuck Kandle

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Chuck Kandle » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00


> Five or Six top-flite drivers.  Eddie Cheever, Greg Ray, Al Unser Jr., Eliseo
> Salazar, Scott Goodyear, Jeff Ward.  Any one of these guys could compete with
> the drivers on the CART circuit and, in fact, have..  Although being the CART
> fanatic you are I don't expect you to see it.

You were doing OK until you got here.  I submit that none of these
drivers could be a serious week in & week out contender on the CART
series.  Ray might have potential somewhere down the road, but not yet.
As for the others...

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195

Your freedom's just a state of mind.   --Gene Simmons  
From the song "War Machine", 1982

Bruce Kennewel

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

(snip)
As for Montoya, he is on another planet.
No matter where he drives he will win.
(unsnip)

I seem to recall similar words being made about Mario Andretti many (MANY!)
years ago.  They proved to be correct.
More recently, the same was said of Monsieur Villeneuve....and he became an
F1 World Champion also.

So your brave statement may hold more than an element of fact, Michael.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


Greg Cisk

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Yes you might be right. The "spectacle" is most likely because originaly
the race was for prototype cars of all types (not much of a formula per se).
Remember Andy Granatellies turbine?

--


Greg Cisk

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00


Cheever was a F1 backmarker and washed up before he spent many
years in CART. He was a constant top 10 type of driver.

Greg Ray? He just won the IRL championship last year wow.

Al Jr. is totally washed up and was constantly at the back of the pack
for the last couple of years. The fact that he won a race this year says
something of the watered down series.

Salazar and Goodyear are also washed up CART drivers.

Jeff Ward??? Don't know but he seemed like a nice guy at the banquet
which was broadcast last night.

And for the record, I like Cheever little Al and Goodyear and even Lyendyke
when he was racing.

A funny thing... I have a relative (by marrige) that insists that Billy Boat
is the real deal just like Stewart... maybe better. Apparently Boat was
a sprintcar champ or something. Because of this, I would have thought
you would have mentioned him.

Yes it sure does thank you.

--


Jim Getze

OT: Excellent! (Indy500 Spoiler)

by Jim Getze » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You may be right, but people forget that he tied with Dario Franchitti for
the CART Championship last year. Montoya was awarded the title on the basis
of a more-wins tie-breaker.

Interestingly enough, this year in CART after five races, Montoya is
currently in 9th place with no wins.

Still, it wouldn't surprise me to see him come back and win the title
anyway. He may do the same in F1, as long as he is in one of the competitive
cars.

Jim


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