rec.autos.simulators

I've just been watching a replay from "Nascar".....after an appaulingly
badly driven exploratory lap my very battered privateer BMW was
superby outbraked by a factory Vauxhall Cavalier in the Corkscrew -
putting me right off so I went wide into the dirt allowing an Alpha 155
to whisk past as well!

BRILLIANT!!!

Yes, I've just been playing with Gerhard Lingenbergs latest offering,
and have converted Laguna Seca across from ICR2. Naturally I'm not
driving one of those horrible Chevys.....the BTCC car set is far more
fun!

OK it'll never happen - the 1995 BTCC circus will never race for real at
Laguna Seca. But I'm having a lot of fun - certainly resurected Nascar
for me since I'd abandoned it as soon as I got ICR2.

Two messages from this.....

_LOADS_ more congratulations to Gerhard.....anyone know an E-mail
address for him?

BOO to Papyrus.....I'd asked about this.....and Rick Genter said it
_couldn't_ be done. Not we're not going to bother. Hee Hee - imagine the
marketing possibilities (even as a direct postal sale to enthusiasts
avoiding packaging costs, etc) they've lost. And that's just the
comercial aspect.....far more this demonstrates what can be done to
"their" programming.....are we going to see the full range of add-ons,
editors, etc appearing completely out of Papyruses control? Makes me
wonder just what track editing/creating involves.....after all they
(through Rick Genter) have suggested this can't be done as an add-on
either.....

It's a thought!                      B-)       B-)      B-)

Cheers!

---
 * RM 1.3 U0414 * OS/2 - The only true 100% FAT free operating system.

Yeah right! Like they said you'd never need a PC more powerful than a
386DX40...

I had a lot of conversations with Rick G about this a while ago. I
even suggested that if licensing of tracks is a problem, then make
some up! You could easily asking racing drivers to design tracks.

I would expect so. Late in 1993 we had already sussed F1GP and were
modifying car colours and helmets, power, etc.

Its never been a question of "is it possible?", its "when will it be
possible?"

Without source code, it takes time to unravel file formats and now
we're getting to grips with them, it won't be long.

Gerhard seems to have the lead on this as he has managed to un-compile
the DAT files to alter them for the converters.

Yes, creating a track is difficult.

First you need to define co-ordinates for polygons, place them so you
don't get gaps, calculate hidden lines/faces, define zones walls etc.

Then you've got to create/assign textures, define whats grass and
tarmac.

Lastly you've got to embedd the track AI for drver aids, correct
racing lines and program the  code for the AI cars to follow.

Few! Is that all!

I think that once a DAT file is decompiled into its raw chunks and
tables then we can start to work on an editor.

Sadly, I don't know what was used to compile the DAT files so I can't
begin to unravel them.

Gerhard, at present is leading the way but, be it because he is on
compuserve or is for some reason reluctant, he doesn't seem to want to
talk or release his finding.

Its a shame, because with the combined knowledge on the 'net, if we
all put our minds together, I don't think it would take that long.

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits
www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

I was just wondering, would it be possible to write an editor to edit the 3DO and PMP files [the
advertising hoardings], then it would be a truly engrossing experience!
--
---------------------------------------

---------------------------------------

Steve.

JJ> I did have it. I've lost it but someone's finding for me...

Cheers.

JJ> Yes, creating a track is difficult.
JJ> First you need to define co-ordinates for polygons, place them so
JJ> you don't get gaps, calculate hidden lines/faces, define zones walls
JJ> etc.
JJ> Then you've got to create/assign textures, define whats grass and
JJ> tarmac.
JJ> Lastly you've got to embedd the track AI for drver aids, correct
JJ> racing lines and program the  code for the AI cars to follow.
JJ> Few! Is that all!

Mmmm - but with whole chunks already done - it's got to be
quicker.....not only can you use the trees, adverts, textures, armco of
existing tracks (I assume) but couldn't you "chop up" bits of circuits
(if you can take the code apart) and re-configure them? Afterwards you'd
have to go for a uniform surface etc (although not so with a lot of
circuits come to think of it). I'm making this up as I go along.....but
say you're trying to create Donnington. The run up towards the Corkscrew
is pretty similar to Cascades into the Old Hairpin if you could reverse
it, no? This could cut the work down a lot, no?

Me, I'm no programmer - I play these sims and watch the stuff for
real.....closer than many since I'm often there officially to pick up
the pieces.....so I'll sit back now and wait for those who actually know
what they're talking about to come up with the goods....   B-)

Go for it!

Cheers!

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 * RM 1.3 U0414 * Okay, I pulled the pin.  Now what?  Where are you going?

It's already been done as far as I know from my e-mail "chats" with
Gerhard. There also exists programs to convert replays into .LP files
and all kinds of other goodies. Currently looking at allowing those
NASCAR dudes to run a "Brickyard 400". The Eliminator coming to you real
soon....

                      _________________________________
          __    _____|                                 |_____    __
_________|  |__|    :|          John Wallace           |     |__|  |_________

  \     :|  |::|    :|       Team WW Racing TSW        |     |::|  |      /
    >   :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |    <
  /     :|__|::|____:/         -=Ayrton Senna=-        \.____|::|__|      \
/_______:/  \::/    Racing is in my ***, it's part of me   \::/  \._______\

Well send me a good clean 25 second ish sample and I'll patch it for
you.

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits
www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

At it'll probably be at The Pits soon!

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits
www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

Usually. I find that road cars are better at low speed than single
seaters because the weight helps keep the power under control.

In most cases, aerodynmics, wings etc only come into play at around
80mph. Thats why a nascar can probably take a slow corner as fast as
an Indycar.

Viva Gerhard and Viva Grand Prix II!!!!

I noticed that at Vancouver, Toronto and Long Beach, the NASCARs have better
low-speed handling than IndyCars, something at surprised me.  (They do have
much more weight--is that what it is?)  On the other hand, IndyCars have
a lot fo downforce in the medium and high-speed corners, so they do those
a LOT better...

--

Brian Wong                              Systems Engineering Group (Servers)

Mind you, when all's said and done, once they'd done the BTCC they could
just make an Indycar set for F3/FV etc...

Max

MG> 1, The tracks would all need modelling (BIG job for all the circuits
MG> as they are all road tracks obviously)

So they say.....but then again _they_ said that Nascar tracks couldn't
be converted to ICR and visa versa because the colours, the positions,
the AI, the speeds, etc would be all wrong.....

Stand up Gerhard Lingeberg!!!

So.....what next from the hackers.....improvers!?!

Cheers!

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 * RM 1.3 U0414 * Error - File not found. Fake it? [Y/N]

Firstly one part of a track may be at 600ft above sea level and
another at 120ft. Matching these up without a step is difficult.

Secondly, creating a track is progressive and its easier to start at
one point and move to the next than "cut and paste" bits of others.

Good point to make, but difficult to implement.

A lot of work, as well as having to reprogram the racing lines,
braking points, et all! ;-)

Well, I'll be suprised if we havent got an editor of some sort
together within 6 months.

Jed
The Pits
www.ukps.com/thepits
www.fwb.gulf.net/~jkohl/thepits

Err...Why?

Rob.
--
rob.

"If you fingers ain't bleeding you ain't playing hard enough"
        -- Rory Gallaher