rec.autos.simulators

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

rrevve

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by rrevve » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

F1-2000 - Why I won't buy it on Day One.

Well folks, I am glad I tried this thing out prior to buying it.
If you don't want to read a major whining rant, you might
want to move on to another post.

First off, I want to say that I am VERY grateful for developers
who take a chance on creating *** sims, and at it's maximum
realism settings, F1-2000 is pretty damned ***. If it's
so ***, then I guess you might wonder why I won't be snapping
it up the millisecond it hits the shelves.

Here are a few of the reasons.

These are my impressions from the MYTH (Final Retail) version of
F1-2000, not the earlier CLASS-released BETA version.

* REASON #1  - Why I absolutely won't buy F1-2000 on Day One

EA/ISI:

What's up with the frigging TIRE SQUEAL? Have you ever witnessed
an F1 race? Have you attended ANY type of race?

If not, then here is some info you may be interested in. When there
are 25, or so, F1 cars in a clump at a venue like Monaco, it is VERY
damned difficult to hear the tiniest squeal from anyone's tires.
F1 cars are really, really noisy . 'K?

Why didn't you actually -listen- to what you have created here,
or at least have someone that actually goes to races, (of any type)
listen to it?

To group: This particular developer, ISI, while having a good
handle on the physics of the cars is not.. err.. sound savvy. Just
like their previous title, SCGT, there are nearly NO ways to
control the sounds that are dished out to us, the user. If I set
the sound effects slider to 10%, I will hear no crashes, etc.,
but my damned tires will continue to holler at the *slightest*
provocation. I  *can't stand* the continuous squealing, so I
will pass on this one, until editors are made by 3rd parties,
as was done to fix the ludicrous sound situation in SCGT.

With SCGT, I rushed out and bought it, and lived with the ***
sound for a while until someone finally made an editor to rip
the sounds. At that time, I changed the engine and other sounds
and my SCGT sounds are on GTINSIDER, and other sites etc..
The sounds that I and others created made SCGT much more
likeable. Again, this will have to be done to fixed the f**ked-up
F1-2000 TIRE SQUEAL, of all things.

I simply can't bear to listen to it, and I won't be paying for
F1-2000 until it is fixed. Don't worry, I won't be sitting here at
home secretly using this warez copy of F1-2000. It is off my drive.
I will wait and see if there are any editors released and what the
user comments are, prior to running it again. If it is fixed, I will
buy it that day. Not before.

I HATE the squealing sound!!!!!!!  ;)

* OTHER REASONS I would be irritated even if the SQUEALING
problems were fixed.

EA/ISI:

Why is there only about a 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel prior to full
braking? I use a TSW wheel/pedals and I don't have this problem
in any other sim. What's up with F1-2000 that it will go full
brakes with 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel? I have over 2" of pedal
travel in my pedals and you only let me use 1/4-1/2" of the 2".

It really, really makes it difficult to modulate the brakes,
EA/ISI, when you design your simulator this way. Care to
tell us why it is like that? Is there a way that the users can
do yet more hacking to fix this problem? Will you help them hack it?

Also, EA/ISI, why is it that even with SMOKE detail at LOW
that every car, including mine, emits powerful plumes of SMOKE
at nearly EVERY corner? The first time I saw it, I thought the
entire field had blown their engines.. LOL. I had to turn off the
smoke in order to see where I was going, when following the AI.
What's up with that, EA/ISI, and will you help 3rd parties hack
it to act like real racecars do?

EA/ISI, why does the run down to Eau Rouge, one of the most
famous and recognizable sections of race track in the WORLD,
have  only a -very- slight slope, not a dramatic drop, like in real life?
Same with Monaco..

Why are the elevations made MUCH less dramatic than in real life?
You may remember that you did the -same- thing in SCGT with
Road Atlanta and with Laguna Seca. Didn't user comments affect
you when you created this new title. Do you at ISI have a TV or
VCR so you could actually LOOK at an F1 race and see that the
elevation changes in F1-2000 are FAR too understated?

[sigh]

* Note to newsgroup: I have some other irritants that bother me
with this title, including the POOR graphics performance. I won't
belabor those, since I can simply reduce major amounts of detail,
view distances, cars viewed, etc. I can crank down the res to
640x480 on my PIII-600/256mb/V3-3000. Silly ***like graphics
beauty shouldn't bother me, cos' after all, I'm hard core, right?

I have to do this majorly reduced detail thing to maintain a
*consistently* decent framerate in *races* with F1-2000.

After my ranting, some of you may wonder who pissed in my Cheerios.
Well, I guess my expectations pissed in my Cheerios. I thought
this was gonna be a nice sim, and in many areas it is VERY nice.
Physics modeling, for example, is very impressive. FWIW, there
is more to enjoyable sim racing, for me, than simply the physics
modeling.      

EA/ISI:

What's up with the engine sound? Why does it make
those little frequency jumps as it revs up? This is most
noticeable in the external replay. It's as if you take a sound
loop and change it's frequency in steps. You do something
like: 8000,8300,8600,8900, etc. The jumps are very noticeable
and sound silly. It would be much better if the jumps were
MUCH smaller, like 8000,8025,8050,8075,8100 .. etc.

This is not a biggie, I'm just wondering if there is some
way to [sigh] 'hack' it to make it sound like a real racecar, and
not some cheap FOR..NEXT loop in an 80's BASIC program.

[shrug]

O.K, enough whining, I am gonna go do something else and try to
make my ears stop squealing, and put a few drops of Visine in my
eyes to clear out the tire smoke. :)

There is a -nice- sim under all of the incredibly bad elevation
and sound detail, and I will buy F1-2000 immediately when it
is *fixed*, by either the developer (unlikely) or by 3rd parties.

Not before.

For now, I am going to sit back and watch people post that this
can't be the 'final retail' version, and that all will be well in the
REAL store-bought version, that my controller and system is crap,
that I should support '***' developers by buying it anyway,
that I am a pirate slimeball, (even though I have an unfixed
PURCHASED Nascar Revolution on my shelf)... Blah, Blah, Blah.

I guess when it actually hits the store shelves all of these questions
will be answered by the posts here in this newsgroup.

You heard it here first .. . :)

Let the flames commence. Next ..

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Tim Vanhe

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by Tim Vanhe » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Errrrr.... What did you say? Less dramatic??? I agree in most points of your
post but I totally disagree on this one. The elevations are extremely
overdone IMO. There are elevations where there should be none or very high
elevation changes where in real life there are just small bumps. (check
Monza)

Now everyone is shouting what a great sim F1 2000 is but it'll change. The
first time I played it I hated it, and gave GP2 another run. I thought it
would get better, that I'd have to get used to it, but after several hours
of forcing myself to love it I still hate it. I wanted it to be good but it
isn't.

rrevve

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by rrevve » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00


>>Why are the elevations made MUCH less dramatic than in real life?
>>You may remember that you did the -same- thing in SCGT with
>>Road Atlanta and with Laguna Seca. Didn't user comments affect
>>you when you created this new title. Do you at ISI have a TV or
>>VCR so you could actually LOOK at an F1 race and see that the
>>elevation changes in F1-2000 are FAR too understated?

>Errrrr.... What did you say? Less dramatic??? I agree in most points of your
>post but I totally disagree on this one. The elevations are extremely
>overdone IMO. There are elevations where there should be none or very high
>elevation changes where in real life there are just small bumps. (check
>Monza)

Tim, surely you don't think that the elevation is steep enough
in the run down to Eau Rouge, at Spa, or down from *** Square
at Monaco, through the 2 or 3 turns leading to the hairpin...

Those are -minor- hills in F1-2000. They aren't like that in real life.

Just my opinion. ;)

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/

rrevve

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by rrevve » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00


I can definitely lose the car under braking. It will push (understeer)
into the sandtrap. I think that part is pretty realistic. Are you
driving with all of the driving aids off?

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.cabal.net

Alexander Mar

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by Alexander Mar » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I was thinking of the opposite effect, try turning in too early while
braking, I can't seem to provoke snap oversteer. It seems like braking is
simply a question of whether you are locking or not locking the brakes - no
weight transfer effects modelled. And yes, all possible aids are off.
Looking at the replay you'll see that the suspension movement is very much
exaggerated. And if you still aren't convinced that this sim is *not THAT
great* <g> then fire up a 100% GP and watch it as a spectator.... ROFLMAO
this is so ridiculous it's funny.

Jarno Bierma

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by Jarno Bierma » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00


> > Let the flames commence. Next ..

> Agree with everything you said, track accuracy is horrible (as I've already
> posted it earler) I'm incredibly disappointed by F12k, especially after the
> hype created in this newsgroup. I just installed the final to give it
> another chance, but my opinion hasn't changed - have you tried to lose the
> car under braking ? it won'T happen, you can'T even provoke it! Ridiculous.
> If any F1 car would be that easy to drive at the limit then count me in for
> next season ;-)

> Already wearing my Flame-proof suit :)
> Alex

What !!! Are you crazy ??? this is the best sim since GPL have you disabled all
the driving helps ?
no alex just kidding i too agree with the above post, some people started a
hype
these persons which i THOUGHT where true simmers (as in gplers) made me curious
and i too downloaded it This game is a piece of shit just like most of the
other games and i feel sorry for
fortunecity.de for wasting their 150mb of bandwith, this was the first warez
game i've downloaded and also the last, i have not deleted this TRASH yet
because a friend has already preordered it and i'm sure when he plays this game
he is not going to buy it

_
Jarno

GTX_SlotCa

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by GTX_SlotCa » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Some real good points, rrevvved. The smoke at all the corners is, I assume,
from tires locking up. A real education for me as I didn't realize real F1
drivers locked their tires at every turn. I get about 1" of brake travel
before full lock on the Ferrari wheel. Haven't tried the modified Act Labs
yet. Guys running the old 'squash ball under the pedal' trick better  go out
and buy a basketball and try to fit it in.  I don't know, maybe I could get
used to it in a few days (weeks or months). Then there's always (sigh)
anti-lock brakes. Having a TSW you wouldn't notice the FF. At least SCGT has
SOME road feel. This is a step backwards. Can't even get wheel damping
without using default spring. I'm afraid we'll never see another driving sim
with GPL's ff qualities. The future looks like washboard running, sign
crunching, cobblestone chattering, NFS force feedback.
Ah well, endeavor to persevere.

Slot


ben

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by ben » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

You're just a ***in' whiner, i didn't even notice the tire sounds,
any chance you have a piece of shit soundcard that only handles a
couple channels at a time? because the sounds were great on my machine
with and SBLive and FPS2000 speakers. I also liked the default sounds
in SCGT way more than all the overdone ones by other people, i still
use the defaults with it as well, i think the problem many people have
with sounds comes from the fact they have shitless sound
cards/speakers etc..



rrevve

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by rrevve » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00


>You're just a ***in' whiner, i didn't even notice the tire sounds,
>any chance you have a piece of shit soundcard that only handles a
>couple channels at a time?

Yah, I got one of them Turtle Beach Montego A3D 2.0 pieces of shit.

LOL

Well, I got some of them USB Altec Lansing Dolby Prologic
Surround speakers. Are they any good, soundmeister?

LOL

So, in SCGT, you liked it when you couldn't hear your car at
the start since it was drowned out by the others cars 'cos
they were all using their internal***pit sounds and they were
just as loud as yours and there were 20 cars trying to drown
you out?

KeWl

LOL

Well, my sound card hasn't shit yet. Does that make it 'shitless'?



>>F1-2000 - Why I won't buy it on Day One.

>>Well folks, I am glad I tried this thing out prior to buying it.
>>If you don't want to read a major whining rant, you might
>>want to move on to another post.

>>First off, I want to say that I am VERY grateful for developers
>>who take a chance on creating *** sims, and at it's maximum
>>realism settings, F1-2000 is pretty damned ***. If it's
>>so ***, then I guess you might wonder why I won't be snapping
>>it up the millisecond it hits the shelves.

>>Here are a few of the reasons.

>>These are my impressions from the MYTH (Final Retail) version of
>>F1-2000, not the earlier CLASS-released BETA version.

>>* REASON #1  - Why I absolutely won't buy F1-2000 on Day One

>>EA/ISI:

>>What's up with the frigging TIRE SQUEAL? Have you ever witnessed
>>an F1 race? Have you attended ANY type of race?

>>If not, then here is some info you may be interested in. When there
>>are 25, or so, F1 cars in a clump at a venue like Monaco, it is VERY
>>damned difficult to hear the tiniest squeal from anyone's tires.
>>F1 cars are really, really noisy . 'K?

>>Why didn't you actually -listen- to what you have created here,
>>or at least have someone that actually goes to races, (of any type)
>>listen to it?

>>To group: This particular developer, ISI, while having a good
>>handle on the physics of the cars is not.. err.. sound savvy. Just
>>like their previous title, SCGT, there are nearly NO ways to
>>control the sounds that are dished out to us, the user. If I set
>>the sound effects slider to 10%, I will hear no crashes, etc.,
>>but my damned tires will continue to holler at the *slightest*
>>provocation. I  *can't stand* the continuous squealing, so I
>>will pass on this one, until editors are made by 3rd parties,
>>as was done to fix the ludicrous sound situation in SCGT.

>>With SCGT, I rushed out and bought it, and lived with the ***
>>sound for a while until someone finally made an editor to rip
>>the sounds. At that time, I changed the engine and other sounds
>>and my SCGT sounds are on GTINSIDER, and other sites etc..
>>The sounds that I and others created made SCGT much more
>>likeable. Again, this will have to be done to fixed the f**ked-up
>>F1-2000 TIRE SQUEAL, of all things.

>>I simply can't bear to listen to it, and I won't be paying for
>>F1-2000 until it is fixed. Don't worry, I won't be sitting here at
>>home secretly using this warez copy of F1-2000. It is off my drive.
>>I will wait and see if there are any editors released and what the
>>user comments are, prior to running it again. If it is fixed, I will
>>buy it that day. Not before.

>>I HATE the squealing sound!!!!!!!  ;)

>>* OTHER REASONS I would be irritated even if the SQUEALING
>>problems were fixed.

>>EA/ISI:

>>Why is there only about a 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel prior to full
>>braking? I use a TSW wheel/pedals and I don't have this problem
>>in any other sim. What's up with F1-2000 that it will go full
>>brakes with 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel? I have over 2" of pedal
>>travel in my pedals and you only let me use 1/4-1/2" of the 2".

>>It really, really makes it difficult to modulate the brakes,
>>EA/ISI, when you design your simulator this way. Care to
>>tell us why it is like that? Is there a way that the users can
>>do yet more hacking to fix this problem? Will you help them hack it?

>>Also, EA/ISI, why is it that even with SMOKE detail at LOW
>>that every car, including mine, emits powerful plumes of SMOKE
>>at nearly EVERY corner? The first time I saw it, I thought the
>>entire field had blown their engines.. LOL. I had to turn off the
>>smoke in order to see where I was going, when following the AI.
>>What's up with that, EA/ISI, and will you help 3rd parties hack
>>it to act like real racecars do?

>>EA/ISI, why does the run down to Eau Rouge, one of the most
>>famous and recognizable sections of race track in the WORLD,
>>have  only a -very- slight slope, not a dramatic drop, like in real life?
>>Same with Monaco..

>>Why are the elevations made MUCH less dramatic than in real life?
>>You may remember that you did the -same- thing in SCGT with
>>Road Atlanta and with Laguna Seca. Didn't user comments affect
>>you when you created this new title. Do you at ISI have a TV or
>>VCR so you could actually LOOK at an F1 race and see that the
>>elevation changes in F1-2000 are FAR too understated?

>>[sigh]

>>* Note to newsgroup: I have some other irritants that bother me
>>with this title, including the POOR graphics performance. I won't
>>belabor those, since I can simply reduce major amounts of detail,
>>view distances, cars viewed, etc. I can crank down the res to
>>640x480 on my PIII-600/256mb/V3-3000. Silly ***like graphics
>>beauty shouldn't bother me, cos' after all, I'm hard core, right?

>>I have to do this majorly reduced detail thing to maintain a
>>*consistently* decent framerate in *races* with F1-2000.

>>After my ranting, some of you may wonder who pissed in my Cheerios.
>>Well, I guess my expectations pissed in my Cheerios. I thought
>>this was gonna be a nice sim, and in many areas it is VERY nice.
>>Physics modeling, for example, is very impressive. FWIW, there
>>is more to enjoyable sim racing, for me, than simply the physics
>>modeling.      

>>EA/ISI:

>>What's up with the engine sound? Why does it make
>>those little frequency jumps as it revs up? This is most
>>noticeable in the external replay. It's as if you take a sound
>>loop and change it's frequency in steps. You do something
>>like: 8000,8300,8600,8900, etc. The jumps are very noticeable
>>and sound silly. It would be much better if the jumps were
>>MUCH smaller, like 8000,8025,8050,8075,8100 .. etc.

>>This is not a biggie, I'm just wondering if there is some
>>way to [sigh] 'hack' it to make it sound like a real racecar, and
>>not some cheap FOR..NEXT loop in an 80's BASIC program.

>>[shrug]

>>O.K, enough whining, I am gonna go do something else and try to
>>make my ears stop squealing, and put a few drops of Visine in my
>>eyes to clear out the tire smoke. :)

>>There is a -nice- sim under all of the incredibly bad elevation
>>and sound detail, and I will buy F1-2000 immediately when it
>>is *fixed*, by either the developer (unlikely) or by 3rd parties.

>>Not before.

>>For now, I am going to sit back and watch people post that this
>>can't be the 'final retail' version, and that all will be well in the
>>REAL store-bought version, that my controller and system is crap,
>>that I should support '***' developers by buying it anyway,
>>that I am a pirate slimeball, (even though I have an unfixed
>>PURCHASED Nascar Revolution on my shelf)... Blah, Blah, Blah.

>>I guess when it actually hits the store shelves all of these questions
>>will be answered by the posts here in this newsgroup.

>>You heard it here first .. . :)

>>Let the flames commence. Next ..

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Marc Collin

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by Marc Collin » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Does this newsgroup seem a lot less....civilised of late?  Is this what the
warez crowd brings?  Good sarcastic reply rrevved, but really, what's
happening?

Marc.

"rrevved" <see_sig@_bottom.net> wrote in message

news:jpp7dss9vqgt6nevia24eok8hurljro8d9@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:10:02 GMT, b...@hotmail.com (benh) wrote:

> >You're just a fuckin' whiner, i didn't even notice the tire sounds,
> >any chance you have a piece of shit soundcard that only handles a
> >couple channels at a time?

> Yah, I got one of them Turtle Beach Montego A3D 2.0 pieces of shit.

> LOL

> >because the sounds were great on my machine
> >with and SBLive and FPS2000 speakers.

> Well, I got some of them USB Altec Lansing Dolby Prologic
> Surround speakers. Are they any good, soundmeister?

> LOL

> > I also liked the default sounds
> >in SCGT way more than all the overdone ones by other people,

> So, in SCGT, you liked it when you couldn't hear your car at
> the start since it was drowned out by the others cars 'cos
> they were all using their internal cockpit sounds and they were
> just as loud as yours and there were 20 cars trying to drown
> you out?

> KeWl

> LOL

> > i still
> >use the defaults with it as well, i think the problem many people have
> >with sounds comes from the fact they have shitless sound
> >cards/speakers etc..

> Well, my sound card hasn't shit yet. Does that make it 'shitless'?

> >On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:45:47 -0600, rrevved <see_sig@_bottom.net>
> >wrote:

> >>F1-2000 - Why I won't buy it on Day One.

> >>Well folks, I am glad I tried this thing out prior to buying it.
> >>If you don't want to read a major whining rant, you might
> >>want to move on to another post.

> >>First off, I want to say that I am VERY grateful for developers
> >>who take a chance on creating hardcore sims, and at it's maximum
> >>realism settings, F1-2000 is pretty damned hardcore. If it's
> >>so hardcore, then I guess you might wonder why I won't be snapping
> >>it up the millisecond it hits the shelves.

> >>Here are a few of the reasons.

> >>These are my impressions from the MYTH (Final Retail) version of
> >>F1-2000, not the earlier CLASS-released BETA version.

> >>* REASON #1  - Why I absolutely won't buy F1-2000 on Day One

> >>EA/ISI:

> >>What's up with the frigging TIRE SQUEAL? Have you ever witnessed
> >>an F1 race? Have you attended ANY type of race?

> >>If not, then here is some info you may be interested in. When there
> >>are 25, or so, F1 cars in a clump at a venue like Monaco, it is VERY
> >>damned difficult to hear the tiniest squeal from anyone's tires.
> >>F1 cars are really, really noisy . 'K?

> >>Why didn't you actually -listen- to what you have created here,
> >>or at least have someone that actually goes to races, (of any type)
> >>listen to it?

> >>To group: This particular developer, ISI, while having a good
> >>handle on the physics of the cars is not.. err.. sound savvy. Just
> >>like their previous title, SCGT, there are nearly NO ways to
> >>control the sounds that are dished out to us, the user. If I set
> >>the sound effects slider to 10%, I will hear no crashes, etc.,
> >>but my damned tires will continue to holler at the *slightest*
> >>provocation. I  *can't stand* the continuous squealing, so I
> >>will pass on this one, until editors are made by 3rd parties,
> >>as was done to fix the ludicrous sound situation in SCGT.

> >>With SCGT, I rushed out and bought it, and lived with the crap
> >>sound for a while until someone finally made an editor to rip
> >>the sounds. At that time, I changed the engine and other sounds
> >>and my SCGT sounds are on GTINSIDER, and other sites etc..
> >>The sounds that I and others created made SCGT much more
> >>likeable. Again, this will have to be done to fixed the f**ked-up
> >>F1-2000 TIRE SQUEAL, of all things.

> >>I simply can't bear to listen to it, and I won't be paying for
> >>F1-2000 until it is fixed. Don't worry, I won't be sitting here at
> >>home secretly using this warez copy of F1-2000. It is off my drive.
> >>I will wait and see if there are any editors released and what the
> >>user comments are, prior to running it again. If it is fixed, I will
> >>buy it that day. Not before.

> >>I HATE the squealing sound!!!!!!!  ;)

> >>* OTHER REASONS I would be irritated even if the SQUEALING
> >>problems were fixed.

> >>EA/ISI:

> >>Why is there only about a 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel prior to full
> >>braking? I use a TSW wheel/pedals and I don't have this problem
> >>in any other sim. What's up with F1-2000 that it will go full
> >>brakes with 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel? I have over 2" of pedal
> >>travel in my pedals and you only let me use 1/4-1/2" of the 2".

> >>It really, really makes it difficult to modulate the brakes,
> >>EA/ISI, when you design your simulator this way. Care to
> >>tell us why it is like that? Is there a way that the users can
> >>do yet more hacking to fix this problem? Will you help them hack it?

> >>Also, EA/ISI, why is it that even with SMOKE detail at LOW
> >>that every car, including mine, emits powerful plumes of SMOKE
> >>at nearly EVERY corner? The first time I saw it, I thought the
> >>entire field had blown their engines.. LOL. I had to turn off the
> >>smoke in order to see where I was going, when following the AI.
> >>What's up with that, EA/ISI, and will you help 3rd parties hack
> >>it to act like real racecars do?

> >>EA/ISI, why does the run down to Eau Rouge, one of the most
> >>famous and recognizable sections of race track in the WORLD,
> >>have  only a -very- slight slope, not a dramatic drop, like in real
life?
> >>Same with Monaco..

> >>Why are the elevations made MUCH less dramatic than in real life?
> >>You may remember that you did the -same- thing in SCGT with
> >>Road Atlanta and with Laguna Seca. Didn't user comments affect
> >>you when you created this new title. Do you at ISI have a TV or
> >>VCR so you could actually LOOK at an F1 race and see that the
> >>elevation changes in F1-2000 are FAR too understated?

> >>[sigh]

> >>* Note to newsgroup: I have some other irritants that bother me
> >>with this title, including the POOR graphics performance. I won't
> >>belabor those, since I can simply reduce major amounts of detail,
> >>view distances, cars viewed, etc. I can crank down the res to
> >>640x480 on my PIII-600/256mb/V3-3000. Silly crap like graphics
> >>beauty shouldn't bother me, cos' after all, I'm hard core, right?

> >>I have to do this majorly reduced detail thing to maintain a
> >>*consistently* decent framerate in *races* with F1-2000.

> >>After my ranting, some of you may wonder who pissed in my Cheerios.
> >>Well, I guess my expectations pissed in my Cheerios. I thought
> >>this was gonna be a nice sim, and in many areas it is VERY nice.
> >>Physics modeling, for example, is very impressive. FWIW, there
> >>is more to enjoyable sim racing, for me, than simply the physics
> >>modeling.

> >>EA/ISI:

> >>What's up with the engine sound? Why does it make
> >>those little frequency jumps as it revs up? This is most
> >>noticeable in the external replay. It's as if you take a sound
> >>loop and change it's frequency in steps. You do something
> >>like: 8000,8300,8600,8900, etc. The jumps are very noticeable
> >>and sound silly. It would be much better if the jumps were
> >>MUCH smaller, like 8000,8025,8050,8075,8100 .. etc.

> >>This is not a biggie, I'm just wondering if there is some
> >>way to [sigh] 'hack' it to make it sound like a real racecar, and
> >>not some cheap FOR..NEXT loop in an 80's BASIC program.

> >>[shrug]

> >>O.K, enough whining, I am gonna go do something else and try to
> >>make my ears stop squealing, and put a few drops of Visine in my
> >>eyes to clear out the tire smoke. :)

> >>There is a -nice- sim under all of the incredibly bad elevation
> >>and sound detail, and I will buy F1-2000 immediately when it
> >>is *fixed*, by either the developer (unlikely) or by 3rd parties.

> >>Not before.

> >>For now, I am going to sit back and watch people post that this
> >>can't be the 'final retail' version, and that all will be well in the
> >>REAL store-bought version, that my controller and system is crap,
> >>that I should support 'hardcore' developers by buying it anyway,
> >>that I am a pirate slimeball, (even though I have an unfixed
> >>PURCHASED Nascar Revolution on my shelf)... Blah, Blah, Blah.

> >>I guess when it actually hits the store shelves all of these questions
> >>will be answered by the posts here in this newsgroup.

> >>You heard it here first .. . :)

> >>Let the flames commence. Next ..

> --
> * rrev at mindspring dot com
> * unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
> * http://www.cabal.net

rrevve

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by rrevve » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:42:54 GMT, "Marc Collins" <marc_coll...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Does this newsgroup seem a lot less....civilised of late?  Is this what the
>warez crowd brings?  Good sarcastic reply rrevved, but really, what's
>happening?

>Marc.

Marc, I hate to be considered as part of the 'warez' crowd, but in this
case I will have to plead guilty.. ;)

I had no qualms whatsoever in finding out if F1-2000 was just
another EA Sports money grab, like Nascar Revolution.

I bought and kept  NR based on EA's promise to fix it. I haunted the
NR forum on the EA site for several months only to ultimately watch
as they simply removed the forum, leaving all of the posters with nowhere
to turn.

I haven't a twinge of guilt in finding out how I would like F1-2000
prior to purchasing it. Had there been a demo, I certainly would have
never downloaded the full version twice on my 56k dialup modem.

( 2 x 50 parts x 2.88mb per part) = 288mb

Thats the biggest thing I have ever downloaded, by far.

I would have simply downloaded the ~20mb demo
and decided if F1-2000 was for me.

Like I said, I have no intention of using it anymore without buying it
and I will only buy it when assured the problems are resolved. A
'plan' to resolve the problems (like NR had) ain't gonna cut it.. ;)

Well, that was longer than I intended, but maybe you catch my drift.

;)

>"rrevved" <see_sig@_bottom.net> wrote in message
>news:jpp7dss9vqgt6nevia24eok8hurljro8d9@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 20:10:02 GMT, b...@hotmail.com (benh) wrote:

>> >You're just a fuckin' whiner, i didn't even notice the tire sounds,
>> >any chance you have a piece of shit soundcard that only handles a
>> >couple channels at a time?

>> Yah, I got one of them Turtle Beach Montego A3D 2.0 pieces of shit.

>> LOL

>> >because the sounds were great on my machine
>> >with and SBLive and FPS2000 speakers.

>> Well, I got some of them USB Altec Lansing Dolby Prologic
>> Surround speakers. Are they any good, soundmeister?

>> LOL

>> > I also liked the default sounds
>> >in SCGT way more than all the overdone ones by other people,

>> So, in SCGT, you liked it when you couldn't hear your car at
>> the start since it was drowned out by the others cars 'cos
>> they were all using their internal cockpit sounds and they were
>> just as loud as yours and there were 20 cars trying to drown
>> you out?

>> KeWl

>> LOL

>> > i still
>> >use the defaults with it as well, i think the problem many people have
>> >with sounds comes from the fact they have shitless sound
>> >cards/speakers etc..

>> Well, my sound card hasn't shit yet. Does that make it 'shitless'?

>> >On Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:45:47 -0600, rrevved <see_sig@_bottom.net>
>> >wrote:

>> >>F1-2000 - Why I won't buy it on Day One.

>> >>Well folks, I am glad I tried this thing out prior to buying it.
>> >>If you don't want to read a major whining rant, you might
>> >>want to move on to another post.

>> >>First off, I want to say that I am VERY grateful for developers
>> >>who take a chance on creating hardcore sims, and at it's maximum
>> >>realism settings, F1-2000 is pretty damned hardcore. If it's
>> >>so hardcore, then I guess you might wonder why I won't be snapping
>> >>it up the millisecond it hits the shelves.

>> >>Here are a few of the reasons.

>> >>These are my impressions from the MYTH (Final Retail) version of
>> >>F1-2000, not the earlier CLASS-released BETA version.

>> >>* REASON #1  - Why I absolutely won't buy F1-2000 on Day One

>> >>EA/ISI:

>> >>What's up with the frigging TIRE SQUEAL? Have you ever witnessed
>> >>an F1 race? Have you attended ANY type of race?

>> >>If not, then here is some info you may be interested in. When there
>> >>are 25, or so, F1 cars in a clump at a venue like Monaco, it is VERY
>> >>damned difficult to hear the tiniest squeal from anyone's tires.
>> >>F1 cars are really, really noisy . 'K?

>> >>Why didn't you actually -listen- to what you have created here,
>> >>or at least have someone that actually goes to races, (of any type)
>> >>listen to it?

>> >>To group: This particular developer, ISI, while having a good
>> >>handle on the physics of the cars is not.. err.. sound savvy. Just
>> >>like their previous title, SCGT, there are nearly NO ways to
>> >>control the sounds that are dished out to us, the user. If I set
>> >>the sound effects slider to 10%, I will hear no crashes, etc.,
>> >>but my damned tires will continue to holler at the *slightest*
>> >>provocation. I  *can't stand* the continuous squealing, so I
>> >>will pass on this one, until editors are made by 3rd parties,
>> >>as was done to fix the ludicrous sound situation in SCGT.

>> >>With SCGT, I rushed out and bought it, and lived with the crap
>> >>sound for a while until someone finally made an editor to rip
>> >>the sounds. At that time, I changed the engine and other sounds
>> >>and my SCGT sounds are on GTINSIDER, and other sites etc..
>> >>The sounds that I and others created made SCGT much more
>> >>likeable. Again, this will have to be done to fixed the f**ked-up
>> >>F1-2000 TIRE SQUEAL, of all things.

>> >>I simply can't bear to listen to it, and I won't be paying for
>> >>F1-2000 until it is fixed. Don't worry, I won't be sitting here at
>> >>home secretly using this warez copy of F1-2000. It is off my drive.
>> >>I will wait and see if there are any editors released and what the
>> >>user comments are, prior to running it again. If it is fixed, I will
>> >>buy it that day. Not before.

>> >>I HATE the squealing sound!!!!!!!  ;)

>> >>* OTHER REASONS I would be irritated even if the SQUEALING
>> >>problems were fixed.

>> >>EA/ISI:

>> >>Why is there only about a 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel prior to full
>> >>braking? I use a TSW wheel/pedals and I don't have this problem
>> >>in any other sim. What's up with F1-2000 that it will go full
>> >>brakes with 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel? I have over 2" of pedal
>> >>travel in my pedals and you only let me use 1/4-1/2" of the 2".

>> >>It really, really makes it difficult to modulate the brakes,
>> >>EA/ISI, when you design your simulator this way. Care to
>> >>tell us why it is like that? Is there a way that the users can
>> >>do yet more hacking to fix this problem? Will you help them hack it?

>> >>Also, EA/ISI, why is it that even with SMOKE detail at LOW
>> >>that every car, including mine, emits powerful plumes of SMOKE
>> >>at nearly EVERY corner? The first time I saw it, I thought the
>> >>entire field had blown their engines.. LOL. I had to turn off the
>> >>smoke in order to see where I was going, when following the AI.
>> >>What's up with that, EA/ISI, and will you help 3rd parties hack
>> >>it to act like real racecars do?

>> >>EA/ISI, why does the run down to Eau Rouge, one of the most
>> >>famous and recognizable sections of race track in the WORLD,
>> >>have  only a -very- slight slope, not a dramatic drop, like in real
>life?
>> >>Same with Monaco..

>> >>Why are the elevations made MUCH less dramatic than in real life?
>> >>You may remember that you did the -same- thing in SCGT with
>> >>Road Atlanta and with Laguna Seca. Didn't user comments affect
>> >>you when you created this new title. Do you at ISI have a TV or
>> >>VCR so you could actually LOOK at an F1 race and see that the
>> >>elevation changes in F1-2000 are FAR too understated?

>> >>[sigh]

>> >>* Note to newsgroup: I have some other irritants that bother me
>> >>with this title, including the POOR graphics performance. I won't
>> >>belabor those, since I can simply reduce major amounts of detail,
>> >>view distances, cars viewed, etc. I can crank down the res to
>> >>640x480 on my PIII-600/256mb/V3-3000. Silly crap like graphics
>> >>beauty shouldn't bother me, cos' after all, I'm hard core, right?

>> >>I have to do this majorly reduced detail thing to maintain a
>> >>*consistently* decent framerate in *races* with F1-2000.

>> >>After my ranting, some of you may wonder who pissed in my Cheerios.
>> >>Well, I guess my expectations pissed in my Cheerios. I thought
>> >>this was gonna be a nice sim, and in many areas it is VERY nice.
>> >>Physics modeling, for example, is very impressive. FWIW, there
>> >>is more to enjoyable sim racing, for me, than simply the physics
>> >>modeling.

>> >>EA/ISI:

>> >>What's up with the engine sound? Why does it make
>> >>those little frequency jumps as it revs up? This is most
>> >>noticeable in the external replay. It's as if you take a sound
>> >>loop and change it's frequency in steps. You do something
>> >>like: 8000,8300,8600,8900, etc. The jumps are very noticeable
>> >>and sound silly. It would be much better if the jumps were
>> >>MUCH smaller, like 8000,8025,8050,8075,8100 .. etc.

>> >>This is not a biggie, I'm just wondering if there is some
>> >>way to [sigh] 'hack' it to make it sound like a real racecar, and
>> >>not some cheap FOR..NEXT loop in an 80's BASIC program.

>> >>[shrug]

>> >>O.K, enough whining, I am gonna go do something else and try to
>> >>make my ears stop squealing, and put a few drops of Visine in my
>> >>eyes to clear out the tire smoke. :)

>> >>There is a -nice- sim under all of the incredibly bad elevation
>> >>and sound detail, and I will buy F1-2000 immediately when it
>> >>is *fixed*, by either the developer (unlikely) or by 3rd parties.

>> >>Not before.

>> >>For now, I am going to sit back and watch people post that this
>> >>can't be the 'final retail' version, and that all will be well in the
>> >>REAL store-bought version, that my controller and system is crap,
>> >>that I should support 'hardcore' developers by buying it anyway,
>> >>that I am a pirate slimeball, (even though I have an unfixed
>> >>PURCHASED Nascar Revolution on my shelf)... Blah, Blah, Blah.

>> >>I

...

read more »

ymenar

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by ymenar » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00


I know... what's happening with this NG?

Is it "the invasion of the dumb warez crowd" movie shooting? People ask dumb
questions like "kewl wear cani dload the gamez".  What's next? People start
to actually love the Test Drive series? Teehee ;)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Andrew

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by Andrew » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I've read F1 drivers say that people don't understand the brakes in an F1
car.  It's not how far you push the pedal, it's how hard you push it.  There
is very little pedal travel.  So by your admission, ISI has modeled this
dead on.  Whether it's a suitable for computer simulations is left up to the
user.

rrevve

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by rrevve » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00


>> EA/ISI:

>> Why is there only about a 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel prior to full
>> braking? I use a TSW wheel/pedals and I don't have this problem
>> in any other sim. What's up with F1-2000 that it will go full
>> brakes with 1/4"-1/2" of pedal travel? I have over 2" of pedal
>> travel in my pedals and you only let me use 1/4-1/2" of the 2".

>I've read F1 drivers say that people don't understand the brakes in an F1
>car.  It's not how far you push the pedal, it's how hard you push it.  

Thats the way it is in a normal car as well...  ;)

Yep, I wouldn't want my real-life Taurus brake pedal to go to the
floor..  ;)

Agreed.

We don't have hydraulic brake pressure to push against, in our
normal sim pedals.

To model something that makes it more difficult to control
than real-life is not making a simulation any better, in my
opinion.

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.cabal.net

David Kar

F1-2000 --> Why I won't buy it on Day One.

by David Kar » Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:00:00

RC2000 RULEZ!

--DK



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