rec.autos.simulators

by **Mike Whit** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>Copied from the press release where 43 opponents are mentioned and where
>online racing is mentioned..

>........
>Although Papyrus had previously announced plans to develop NASCAR?
>Racing 3 around the physics engine in Grand Prix Legends, it was
>determined that the system requirements needed to support that model
>with a 43 car field would exceed that of virtually all systems on the
>market today. An enhanced version of the physics from previous
>NASCAR? titles will be used in NASCAR? Racing 3. Papyrus will
>continue developing its next generation physics engine for use in
>future NASCAR? products.
>.......

Beta reviewer says on the Beta there was a 32 car limit. (untested I
believe)

In a press release it was stated 20+ with a fast internet connection.

by **Joel Willstei** » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>Since Papyrus announced that Nascar3 would not use the
>GPL engine because it would not work properly with 43 cars
>with todays CPU's , would you be willing to race against 15 opponents
>with an advanced physics engine, as opposed to a slightly upgraded N2
>engine with 43 opponents and better graphics ? In other words quality
>vs quantity.

When are you going to give this stupid line of posts up? For months
we've had every single post one could possibly think of as a option to what
Sierra/Papyrus has decided to do.

You have absolutely no idea of the quality of Nas3.

If you will not accept anything other then Nascar2000 with the gpl
physics engine,then fine,don't buy Nas3 and just wait for its release. But
there are those like myself that can't wait for Nas3 to hit the shelves. And
no,I opted not to buy Nas99. I just didn't post it 50 million times.

Joel Willstein

by **Mike Whit** » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>> You aren't going to see 43 cars on the same track and it wouldnt' be
>very
>> much fun if you did.

>Not much fun? LOL It would be a disaster!

>Even if it were on a closed LAN where connections were perfect, it
>would still end up as a donnybrook after the cars in the back started
>getting lapped on the second lap at one of those half-mile ovals.

Allow me to put a different "spin" on this issue.

If there were 43 cars on the track, there would be a much higher premium on
how your setup handles in traffic. With only 12-24 cars, the leaders are
usually running wide open. When they come up on a lapped car, for some
reason it has become the lapped car's responsibility to move out of the way.
(not just maintain a safe line) With 43 cars you would constantly be in
traffic, and would learn to adapt your driving style, and setup to it. The
net result in my opinion is more cars that can compete for the lead...
Cutting edge speed setups would rarely be of value.

by **Mike Whit** » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>It's perplexing to me that the same company that decided that today's
>computer technology wasn't capable of handling a 3D physics engine with
>a 43 car field, somehow leaped to the conclusion that today's internet
>communication technology IS ready for a 43 car field.

Communication technology IS ready for a 43 car field as long as you throw
enough low latency bandwidth at the problem.

You're comparing the task of 1 computer computing the AI's version of
physics for each of 42 cars plus 1 players physics vs the (dedicated host)
computing 0 physics, and each client computing only thier own physics.

Offline vs Online.

Offline AI is much more taxing with the GPL's AI physics than multiplayer
is.

by **Bill Bollinge** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>Allow me to put a different "spin" on this issue.

>If there were 43 cars on the track, there would be a much higher premium on
>how your setup handles in traffic. With only 12-24 cars, the leaders are
>usually running wide open. When they come up on a lapped car, for some
>reason it has become the lapped car's responsibility to move out of the
way.
>(not just maintain a safe line) With 43 cars you would constantly be in
>traffic, and would learn to adapt your driving style, and setup to it. The
>net result in my opinion is more cars that can compete for the lead...
>Cutting edge speed setups would rarely be of value.

Great Post Mike,

I think you are right on the money. The problem is we have NEVER even had
the OPPORTUNITY to race with 43 people and do not know how the average
person would react. When I raced in this last NROS season, my primary focus
was to get beyond the first 80% of the race. Our team which had 4 guys in
the top 10 of last season's NROS Pro Division had only 1 focus. DON'T WRECK
and make sure to put yourself into a position only to finish well. I think
43 online racers would be awsome. I think the reason for only 32 now is due
mostly to the track layouts. Has anyone heard if Pit Positions will be
based on qualifying or still the lame way we do it now?

Bill / Amish on TEN

by **Mike Whit** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>I think the reason for only 32 now is due mostly to the track layouts.
>Has anyone heard if Pit Positions will be based on qualifying or still the

lame way we do it now?

My guess as to 32 is because Papy probably never thought anyone would be
willing to throw enough bandwidth at it to be able to host even 32.
Remember 42 AI supposedly fit in the pitstalls offline.

As for pit stalls assigned by qualifying... Based on the comment where
"you get the first pit stall" (i.e.far back) I'd say it still works the same
as N2.

I know the procedure required to assign pit stalls based on qualifying, but
would need access to the host source code (or write a compatible server) to
do it.

by **Joel Willstei** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

> Since racing with more than ten or so people on GPL/VROC starts
>turning into a demo derby more times than not, I hesitate to ponder
>just what 30-40 car N3 pick-up races will be like. The question is
>how many GPL racers we'll still find on VROC once N3 is released?
>(maybe a fair number once they get tired of "N3-newbie-crash-o-rama")

Jeff,

I've wondered the samething. As it stands right now,there isn't more
than 50-75 racers at VROC at anyone time. Alison has never released the
actual number of drivers that have signed up. But more than half of the
online members are in the chat room rather than on the track.

The way it looks to me right now,when online racing starts with
Nas3,VROC will be a shadow of itself.

Joel Willstein

by **Joel Willstei** » Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:00:00

>Ya know what Chris? You haven't said one positive thing in any of the
>Nascar 3 threads, and your rhetoric is becoming tiring. N3 is a new
>version of *my* favorite sim, so I'm jazzed about what they've put into
>it. I've said time and again that GPL is the best sim available. You
>wanna know something? Even after N3 is released, GPL will STILL be the
>best sim available, but being a Nascar fan, I'll still pick a warmed-over
>outdated sim over GPL because quite frankly, open-wheel racing isn't that
>much of a rush for me.

John,

I've been following the thread,and I have to agree with you. Enough is
enough. Chris,if the thought of Nascar 3 is so terrible,then don't buy
it,but stop bashing it,since you haven't even tried it.

So far the reviews of those who have tested the alpha and beta versions
have said that the game is much better than Nascar2. The cars now feel like
stock cars,and the bodies feel like they roll. The few tracks that came
with the beta versions are a vast improvement as well. The Force Feedback
is great, which is reason enough for me to buy it.

Personally,I'll be racing both GPL and Nascar3 online.

Joel Willstein

by **Marko Viitane** » Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:00

How about a sim that were you can adjust physics yourself?

Just set the "physics-setup-bar" to higher and you have more realistic
physics?

Anyone who play offline can adjust his physics to the level where he can use
43 cars if he wants to(use less CPU power) and in onlineraces there would
be different leagues. Realistic and Semi-Realistic etc?

One single game would serve "everyone" at one time and Papy would get big
bucks too. Yeah. I know it's damn difficult to do, but wouldn't that be
great! :)

by **Larr** » Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:00:00

It's not a 'slightly' upgraded engine. Trust me.

N3 is a _substantial_ upgrade to the Nascar Racing series. IMHO, it is the
first real upgrade since N2 came out.

Give it a chance.

-Larry

by **Larr** » Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On the server side, it requires 24k data rates per car for proper
performance.

-Larry

> I've been wondering that my self. Unless I missed something, I have
> yet to see anything stated about the number of cars to race on line.
> I'll have to re read the papy press release to see if it's in there.
> All I remember it saying is that you can race 43 cars but I don't think
> it said 43 online. again, I'll re read it.

> mike

> > > Since Papyrus announced that Nascar3 would not use the
> > > GPL engine because it would not work properly with 43 cars
> > > with todays CPU's , would you be willing to race against 15 opponents
> > > with an advanced physics engine, as opposed to a slightly upgraded N2
> > > engine with 43 opponents and better graphics ? In other words quality
> > > vs quantity.

> > Does anyone really expect to be able to race 43 cars on the internet
> > anyway? Even with dedicated servers and T1 lines on TEN the best we
> > could do is 24 cars. With cable or DSL I doubt we will be able to race
> > more than 18 with any stabilty.

> > The entire "43 car" argument only applies to offline racing, and I have
> > no desire to race imaginary opponents. The problem is that there is a
> > huge market that buys games to play offline, but only a few thousand of
> > us that race on the net. Our wants and desires don't have much weight
> > yet in the decision making process.

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

> --
> =========================================
> Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
> =========================================
> Racing online with the help of......

> Race Communications Association
> http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html
> Holodyne Engineering

> Mystic Music

> (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

rec.autos.simulators

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?

Nascar3 , GPL physics for group ?