rec.autos.simulators

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
A year later, and there's still nothing on the PC that can match GT for
sheer depth!

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It's awesome and GT 2 will be bigger and badder than the first. Sony says
they have upgraded the graphics. Pre-order here I come !

GT is good, but it's not THAT good.

Cheers!
John

Andre Queree (Mr_Q) wrote

Gran Turismo for me was one of the most disappointing racing game ever.  I
went into it with a open-mind about this title, but Im sorry I was just
dissapointed.

First of all, the car choice is seriously lacking for the hype they did.
Most of them are modified version of the same basic car.  Shape modeling was
in fact pretty weak, and re-used for many cars.  The interface was pretty
annoying, with a menu tree that were very arcadish.  To the real points.
The realism.

It was for me just a arcade game. No realism at all.  And I had the Japanese
version.  Not the fake arcadish US version.  The tracks aren't really long,
and there is less than I thought.  And what's up with only 5lap or less
races ? You can't develop a tempo at all, or any rithym.

The AI for me was "normal", but just wasn't realist.  It was probably caused
by the major point I will say now...  ARCADE PHYSICS.  Im sorry but think a
little here.  Create the same track in real-life, put a real racing car on
it and just think about how it would be.  Very different from the actual
game.  You can actually take those corners without the use of the brake,
just scrub the speed with the controller (lucky I was using the Dual-Shock
controllers).  As for the graphics, I will say that anybody can great good
looking graphics on a track when they are fantasy tracks. Just create
anything from your mind.  Not as difficult as recreating perfectly a
real-life track into a virtual one.  And Im sorry but the game engine wasn't
the best I saw.  It was good, similar to Screamers 2, but not really great.
Be happy I only resumed my thoughts, it could had been 20kb long if I wanted
;)

Finally...  now that I saw Nascar Racing 3 in action... and that GPL is
reality, and the NROS is actually working great... I won't even think of
racing another time on the PSX.

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

As an avid PC racer and part time PSX player - I'm sorry to have to say:

Yep, GT is, overall, a far better racing sim than ANYTHING currently
available on the PC.

But I'm not here for that  (c:  All I wanted to know was - Is GT2 going to
have damage modelling? It's the only thing letting GT down.

--
Andre Queree (Mr Q)
E-mail for genuine purposes (not spam) can be sent to:
queree AT fl DOT net DOT au
(just replace the obvious bits)
***********************************************

<snipped lots of good points>

I was also very dissapointed with GT. I got a PSX for my son and bought TOCA2
and GT plus a Mad Catz wheel/pedal combo. I found two major problems with both
titles that rendered them unplayable:

1) The graphics on a PSX are apalling and these two titles offer some of the
best graphics to be had on that platform. Once you've been racing on 1024x768
Voodoo2 SLI on a decent monitor getting 36 fps you just can't be doing with
512x384 at 25 fps max. Never mind PSX2 or whatever, you will never get better
than that on a standard tv. Racing on a PSX is like driving with***glue
smeared all over your visor.

2) The controlling devices on a PSX are dreadful. Our Mad Catz wheel just
doesn't hold a candle to any of our PC wheels in depth of control and is nothing
like driving a real car. The lack of control makes it impossible to judge
whether GT's physics are any good. The Dual Shock and a V3 wheel that I've also
tried are both worse than the Mad Catz. Racing on a PSX is like driving with
boxing gloves on and smearing the wheel with Vaseline.

Fortunately, TOCA2 is being released on the PC and looks quite promising. When
and if GT gets a PC port, we can begin to evaluate it.

Cheers,
Paul

Ok, I guess different people have different opinions. For me the lack
of damage modelling in GT was the killer. Racing in the game feels
very unrealistic because I have no fear of damaging the car. That's
why I keep deliberately hitting computer drivers in front of me in
turns, and also using the walls to my advantage. For example in one of
the tracks (I don't remember the name right now, I could check it in a
minute) where there is a long straight after which you enter a tunnel
(the left side of the tunnel is open ended), I always enter that
tunnel at full speed and let my car hit the wall, and that slows the
car down just enough for the upcoming twisty parts. I win time that
way instead of trying to carefully slow the car down for the tunnel so
that I don't hit the walls or other cars and damage my car.

Also, the computer drivers in GT are stupid. But the game is still
pretty interesting with its "buy and modify your own car"
mentalitility.

Har har, you are such a funny guy. I have GT on my Playstation, and I
play it like any arcade driving game (in GT mode), not like racing
simulators. To me it seems to be somewhere in the middleground of
simulators and arcade driving games.

Depth??? Sheer Depth???? What LSD are you on man???? This is a FANTASY game
with FAKE cars and FANTASY tracks. Where is there depth in that? Now GPL,
NASCAR2, TOCA2 (soon on PC), Colin McRae Rally, Rally99 (when released), and
the one I am drooling for - Pro Sportscar Racing - these DO have depth! And
they deal with REAL cars, REAL tracks, and REAL drivers! GT is ok for a 25
cent arcade game, but I want REALISM.

You haven't actually played it have you. I hate it when people slag off
games that they haven't actually played.

GT has over 200 REAL cars. Viper GTS, Honda NSX, TVR's, Aston Martins
etc etc I agree that it is a bit arcady and that the PC has GPL which is
much better in terms of physics and depth (yes I do play that too) but
GT in it's own right is easily the best racer on the PSX. The game DOES
have depth in that there is pressure to win races to gain money to
upgrade your car. You have to adapt to different driving styles as there
are championships specifically for front wheel drive, rear wheel drive
and 4 wheel drive and the cars handle noticibly differently. I'd much
rather race the well made GT tracks than trot round some oval for 2
hours. Left, straight, left, straight, left, straight..........

You could start a whole new thread here but what, exactly, is depth?

Kev

Oh come on. They're not appauling. GT has the best graphics of any PSX
racing game. Of course they look bad compared to your several thousand
quids worth of PC hardware but this is from a $100 grey box, unchanged
since it was brought out in 1996. That was when a top range PC was a
133MHz. You can't run 1024x768 pin sharp 3d graphics on a 133 at 25fps.
Likewise you can't expect a PSX to be able to do that either. GT runs at
30fps and 60fps in hires/hifi mode.

I've never tried a mad catz wheel but the dual shock control is
excellent (if you set the throttle to the right stick and steering on
the left) You CAN feel the car on the limit of traction due to the
excellent implementation of the 'shock' and the car is also very
controllable. Little touches on the power and break traction and make
you spin, likewise the spin can be controled with opposite lock in a
much more realistic way than any other PSX racing game has shown.

Yes, of course I own a PSX and I'll defend a great game if I think it's
not being given a fair go but I also play GPL and GP2 on a pc and enjoy
them aswell. You have a right to your opinion but, on the subject of GT
having wooly controls and ***graphics, you're very much in the minority.

Kev

I'm a fanatic racing 'simulation' player. For me, nothing is more fun than
tweaking the setups in CART Precision Racing, or Nascar Racing, or Indycar
Racing, or even Grand Prix Legends, which is the master of all racing games.
But I don't think that Gran Turismo was supposed to be a simulator. It's was
quite simply an arcade game - hop in, turn on the engine, get going...

The graphics in Grand Turismo certainly did show a vast improvement over any
other Playstation game, and these days you really can't expect them to be
anywhere near as good as they would be on a quality PC, especially with 3D
support, like the Voodoo II, or even SLI. But that's not what the
Playstation is for. It's excellent for arcade games, not simulations.

Some of the things however which were a disapointment was the lack of damage
effects, or even dirt when you drove on the grass, and the AI wasn't up to
much. I also can't stand the fact that you had to pass these licenses to get
new cars and tracks. Games ALWAYS lose points, in my mind, when they do
that. I like to be able to choose which tracks, which car, which setups,
which colours, etc, without having to do anything expect start the game.
It's fine to add hidden cheats, like bonus rounds, after lets say winning
the championship, but nothing else.

Also, the fact that there were no cheats available, unless you had an add-on
pack (I forget the name) was a MAJOR bummer, and I'm sure it annoyed a lot
of people, not just myself.

I'd say that at the current time the best racing game on the Playstation is
Collin McRae Rally, and the worst is certainly Formula 1 98.

And as for the PC, it rules so high up on the scheme of things that it can't
get much higher...

And when you look at games like Grand Prix Legends and compare it to games
we had just five, ten years ago, I'm left speechless!

Adam

On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:50:34 +0000, Kevin Clark

It must be almost as bad as slagging off someone when you don't even
know if they've played it or not.

Pot? Kettle? Black?

Cheers!
John

Kevin Clark wrote

You have just said what I wanted you to say.  The first poster in this
thread said that no PC game could match Gran Turismo in all aspects ;-)

-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

OK. Fair point John but he started off by saying it didn't contain any
REAL cars which is precisely what it DOES contain. Therefore it's a fair
guess that he hasn't played it, yes?

Kev