rec.autos.simulators

   We have the ability now to run longer races online with Nascar 2k3.  But
so far all I have seen is two drivers sharing a car and making one driver
swap.  In real Endurance racing, even in the 3 hour events in Europe and
America, the drivers often make mulitiple driver changes.  Often driver A
starting an event, then driver B taking over before giving way back to
driver A for the finish.   And the 12/24 hour events swap drivers every
couple of hours or even every pitstop.

   I wonder then, what kind of rules would appeal to online racers.  I'd
like to see some format that encourages multiple driver changes.  The idea
of racing for an hour or two then comming back several hours later is more
appealing to me than me driving 4 hours then handing off to my teamate for
4 hours.  
   To spur pitstops, I would probably consider upping the fuel and tire
wear, Not dramatically but 2x fuel/tire setting in nr2k3 would probably run
a tank dry in just less than a half hour.  And then, of course, mandating
driver swaps every hour or so.  

   If YOU were hosting a 6 or 12 hour race, what rules would you like
and/or which rules would you oppose?

dave henrie

Well, I'd like the option to change drivers *more* frequently, but
I'd set a maximum length of time -- and/or a maximum amount of fuel
allowed to a driver before a change is mandated. They can change
sooner, but they must not change later.

Speaking of which, _how_ do you tell that there is a new driver? Do
the drivers have to share the same computer and the same driver name
(as far as the game is concerned), or is there a way to have two
drivers on separate computers share the car? (The latter would open
up all kinds of possibilities! I could hire a ringer from some other
country. Pay him in Canadian beer or something.)

Would you want to enforce some kind of minimum total time for each
driver? I'm thinking of the case where A is faster than B. Driver A
does a full stint and B takes over. B does a few laps and hands back
over to A, who does a full stint. Repeat until end of race.

You could enforce a minimum total driving time and still let people
take shorter runs; it's just that they would both have to take the
shorter turns. I was kind of thinking that you could have a rule to
the effect that no one driver would but in more than X percent than
any other driver on the team. This would allow for 3 or 4 driver
teams (for those of us with severe attention deficit syndrome.) You
wouldn't have to mandate x hours if there were 2 and Y hours of there
were 3 and Z hours of there were 4..., just no one driver to have
more than 20% more time than any other driver.

But what if you run into a team that has two drivers who _like_ long
runs? You like shorter runs, but they like longer runs? As long as
they divvy up the time evenly, does it really matter? (I know, I'm
being difficult. <g>)

All the best,
--
  Darryl

I would oppose mandatory driver swaps.  If some crazy wants to drive several
hours by himself, he should have that option.  And don't say no one would do
it.  The IICC league ran a 1000km race at Nurburgring(GPL).  That was 44 laps,
and the total race time was about 5 + hours...<g>
I got discoed about 8 laps from the end.  Grrrr.....

Eldred
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I don't think you need to make any special rules. All your concerns
are resolved naturally. Basically, it is beneficial to change drivers
at reasonable intervals (maybe every 2 hours or even sooner). In the
IICC's 1000km of the 'Ring, even such aliens as Michiel Pompert had
hard time toward the end, and at that stage much slower, but fresh
driver would do better job, besides it would let the alien rest, so
he could drive faster in the next stint. AFAIR nobody of those who
drove alone was driving very well at the end. (and there's was a bunch
of otherwise fast and consistent drivers). Of course, there's a
possibility that some team may benefit from the asymmetric schedule,
like 2 hours stint by the fast driver, 1 hour by the slow one, 2 hours
by the fast, 1 by the slow etc, but it's hard to judge how fast drivers
will be able to rest. In this case the fast driver would have to drive
2/3 of the race, 4 hours out of 6 sounds acceptable, but 16 out of 24
is probably very hard.

I'm not how much fuel you can pick up in NR, but I guess you'll need
at least about the same frequency of stops.

Alex.

http://ui.skype.com/download.html

    Pete

Thanks for the suggestion.

Eldred
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Of course, we *would* both mention the same event.  It's all El Jefe's
fault...<g>

Eldred
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Assuming you're talking about multiple drivers sharing the same PC and
changing during the pit stop then I agree with whoever said you
wouldn't need to enforce changes.  You'd have to switch when somebody
gets tired/hungry anyway.   I don't think you'd have to up tire wear,
as over a 6 - 12 hour period you'd have to make a number of stops
anyway.  If the faster team mate wants to drive more stints then the
slow one (and the slow guy is OK with that), then so what, he runs the
risk of making a fatigue mistake.

If I were to join such a race (after my divorce of course) I'd like to
see the damage set so that a silly mistake didn't totally eliminate
you 30 minutes into a 12 hour race (in real endurance racing even a
destroyed gearbox is repairable but not in NR.), sure you may have to
pay a penalty in pit time, but for a fun event there's no fun if your
team mate has wrecked the car on you.  Of course that might mean a
minimum driving standard to ensure it doesn't become demolition derby.

If you're talking about two drivers each using their own PC and have
them appear as 1 single car to the race server, then I don't know how
you'd do it with the present sims out there .   However I'd often
thought about a 2 hour race and the winner be determined by combining
the times of each "team" of two cars.  Sort of a virtual 4 hour enduro
but with each of the drivers stints occurring in parallel.

Ya, once you elongate races to real length I wouldn't monkey about with Tire
wear and fuel usage, there should be plenty of stops.  Then I'd say use real
life rules. ie max time any one driver can do and let them split it up
however the want.

What is the answer of whether two drivers can share one car on two different
computers.  Pretty sure that's not the case.  Would be dynamite if that were
the case it's always been my dream.  Even SCGT lets you hand off to an AI
Co-Driver. Always thought that was a neat feature that no one else ever
explored. (Just thinking is everyone sure that's not buried somewhere in the
code of  ISI's F1 sims?) That and mid race saves, only ever available on
LeMans24Hrs and IRL two of the worst games ever.

Rudeboy

Yes, you can...

Eldred
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Eldred
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Actually GP1 did mid-race saves quite nicely (modem link), and even
allowed a multiplayer season. Buddy and I used to run every Sunday
night and track points over an entire GP season. Was great fun in the
days that GP1 was the hottest thing going.

    With Nr2k3 you can.  In fact SEVERAL drivers can all share the same car
(not at once mind you) during a race.  Even if they are located on
different continents.   It takes a little work to get the car file squared
away, but anyone can team up with others and race with the programs we
currently have.  Folks have already run fairly long races with driver
swapping.
   One thing I've seen so far is most people limit their thinking to just
TWO DRIVERS.  Why not 4?  I'd like to drive early in the morning.  go to
work, come back and take over from teammate # 3 or #4 8 or ten hours later.
Flexibiity and challenge combined.

dave henrie

  2 drivers, or 3 drivers or any possible number of teammates you could
aquire.  (the drive-a-lap-then-pit-and-hand-off-to-another-teamate-1000!)

dave henrie

dave henrie