rec.autos.simulators

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

TB Studen

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by TB Studen » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Wondering how you shift gears, do you

1) keep full throttle while shifting
2) release throttle while shifting
3) use a clutch device (and release throttle)
4) use automatic shifting

I was wondering this, because keeping full throttle tends to upset the car,
that's bad in the middle of a corner. (I know, you're not supposed to shift
there). Besides, it's overrevving the engine, and it will definetly blow in
the final version. But releasing throttle is so difficult (at least to me),
and it costs time.

Please give me your opinion

Martijn Keizer

Dave Henri

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Dave Henri » Thu, 09 Apr 1998 04:00:00

  #2 TB..and here's why.
     Most of the motley crue that drives today has been spoonfed on our modern
Gearbox racers.  F1 cars shift on the fly in microseconds...CART CHAMP cars
sequential gearbox also has shift on the fly capabilities...The N2 model did
address the clutch for several reasons...mainly, cuz they probably didn't have
a clue how to do it back then.
  And controllers are very limited in the clutch pedal area.  TSW I have heard
will be bringing that option out.
  Now...finally my reason...You will have to learn the most basic of racing
techniques if you use a clutch...Heel-Toe footwork.  Your heal on the brake,
toes on the gas, and the left foot on the brake...Learn it now or be left
behind by the big shots.  So while lifting off the gas may seem foreign to
you...after a day or two of concentrating on it...you'll be feeling odd driving
the other sims where you keep the gas mashed.
  Good luck
dave henrie


> Wondering how you shift gears, do you

> 1) keep full throttle while shifting
> 2) release throttle while shifting
> 3) use a clutch device (and release throttle)
> 4) use automatic shifting

> I was wondering this, because keeping full throttle tends to upset the car,
> that's bad in the middle of a corner. (I know, you're not supposed to shift
> there). Besides, it's overrevving the engine, and it will definetly blow in
> the final version. But releasing throttle is so difficult (at least to me),
> and it costs time.

> Please give me your opinion

> Martijn Keizer

Byron Forbe

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Byron Forbe » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> Wondering how you shift gears, do you

> 1) keep full throttle while shifting
> 2) release throttle while shifting
> 3) use a clutch device (and release throttle)
> 4) use automatic shifting

> I was wondering this, because keeping full throttle tends to upset the car,
> that's bad in the middle of a corner. (I know, you're not supposed to shift
> there). Besides, it's overrevving the engine, and it will definetly blow in
> the final version. But releasing throttle is so difficult (at least to me),
> and it costs time.

> Please give me your opinion

  As you make mention of, I normally go thru a corner in one gear. On a
good lap I change from 3rd to 4th as I begin turning into T3. T4 is the
***e though. Changing from 2nd to 3rd seems necessary about 2/3 thru
T4 but if you hang on tight you can do it. It's more a matter of wheel
control than anything. Or maybe I should be trying going thru it in 3rd.
Like I need to stop trying to get thru the last turn in 2nd instead of
1st. Seems compression lockup is a big part of this sim as it should be
:)
Bruce Kennewel

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00

History lesson, folks.......

It was the normal practice to NOT take the foot off the accelerator when
changing UP.  In fact, most up changes were made without even using the
clutch.  A good driver could change gear without incurring the slightest
"crunch" simply by sensing the engine revs to the last 10 rpm!!


> Wondering how you shift gears, do you

> 1) keep full throttle while shifting
> 2) release throttle while shifting
> 3) use a clutch device (and release throttle)
> 4) use automatic shifting

> I was wondering this, because keeping full throttle tends to upset the car,
> that's bad in the middle of a corner. (I know, you're not supposed to shift
> there). Besides, it's overrevving the engine, and it will definetly blow in
> the final version. But releasing throttle is so difficult (at least to me),
> and it costs time.

> Please give me your opinion

> Martijn Keizer

--
Bruce.
(At home)
DPHI

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by DPHI » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00


>Date: 4/8/98 2:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>

><BR>
>History lesson, folks.......<BR>
><BR>
>It was the normal practice to NOT take the foot off the accelerator when<BR>
>changing UP.  In fact, most up changes were made without even using the<BR>
>clutch.  A good driver could change gear without incurring the slightest<BR>
>"crunch" simply by sensing the engine revs to the last 10 rpm!!<BR>
><BR>

><BR>
>> Wondering how you shift gears, do you<BR>
>><BR>
>> 1) keep full throttle while shifting<BR>
>> 2) release throttle while shifting<BR>
>> 3) use a clutch device (and release throttle)<BR>
>> 4) use automatic shifting<BR>
>><BR>
>> I was wondering this, because keeping full throttle tends to upset the
>car,<BR>
>> that's bad in the middle of a corner. (I know, you're not supposed to
>shift<BR>
>> there). Besides, it's overrevving the engine, and it will definetly blow
>in<BR>
>> the final version. But releasing throttle is so difficult (at least to
>me),<BR>
>> and it costs time.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Please give me your opinion<BR>
>><BR>
>> Martijn Keizer<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Bruce.<BR>
>(At home)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
></HTML>

All you have to do is fire up your copy of the movie Grand Prix and listen to
how they shift, to see that Bruce is correct.

In this sim at least, if you let off in a corner to shift, you will spin,
period. Keep the hammer down!

This is the first sim that I have wanted to shift manually. I'm fairly new to
sim racing, and up till now, it's been all I can do to set the cars up and stay
on the track ( ICR2, GP2, F1RS & TOCA )! You almost have to manually shift this
car just to keep the engine up on the cams, otherwise it's dog slow. This thing
reminds me of my first car, an old MGA, but with a whole lot more horsepower!
It swivels and shakes and has no brakes but you gotta love it!

One beef though, I hope,  in the final version,  the tach on the dash will be
turned so that redline for the respective engine reads straight up.Look at most
of the cars from that era, and the vintage cars run today, all the important
gauges would be oriented so that when all was well, the needles pointed
straight up. That way, the driver just had to glance at the instrument to check
for trouble.

Back to The Glen!

Don

Bruce Kennewel

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> One beef though, I hope,  in the final version,  the tach on the dash will be
> turned so that redline for the respective engine reads straight up.Look at most
> of the cars from that era, and the vintage cars run today, all the important
> gauges would be oriented so that when all was well, the needles pointed
> straight up. That way, the driver just had to glance at the instrument to check
> for trouble.

Spot on with that observation, Don.
However, the "red line" in the demo is, in fact, the tell-tale.
I haven't actually noticed a "red" area on the tach itself.

Incidentally......you had an MGA.  I have a TC and can relate to this
sim like no other!! :-)

--
Bruce
(Fyshwick)

"I hate music, especially when it's played."
(Jimmy Durante)

Matthew Knutse

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Matthew Knutse » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> History lesson, folks.......

> It was the normal practice to NOT take the foot off the accelerator
> when
> changing UP.  In fact, most up changes were made without even using
> the
> clutch.  A good driver could change gear without incurring the
> slightest
> "crunch" simply by sensing the engine revs to the last 10 rpm!!

Hmm........With unsyncronized 'boxes it is common practice to upshift
with no *clutch*, however, you let off the throttle an instant
to avoid over-revving the engine, and in case you miss your shift. I am
quite sure Papy has programmed something into this sim, like if you keep
your foot down, the engine won't last a full distance. In these days,
you can either get a switch that will "kill" the coil for an instant as
you press (or nip) the cluch while shifting, stopping the engine. In the
hi-tec sequential and F1 boxes, an engine cutout is programmed in.
On downshift, one can also drop the clutch, however, it tends to ruin
your dog-rings, and lock up the rears, hence heel-and toe shifting.
I have tried an Hewland FGB box in a sports-prototype, and you can shift
pretty dung fast, but you need to get off the gas.....
remember, if your redline is at 11500, you shift at, say 11200, and if
you keep the throttle in (without rev-limiter), you'll see 12000 in an
instant:::)

Isn't the wild cams of the Lotus/Ford engine programmed nicely? first,
nothing, then take off::)))

Matt

--

Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars (http://home.sn.no/~kareknut)

"Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
       -Cale Yarborough

Matthew Knutse

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Matthew Knutse » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> I work for a car company and, last night, I got to take a Mini Cooper
> home.
> It's the first time I've ever driven one and it reminded me very much
> of GPL,
> and vice-versa.  Very direct and mechanical-feeling, and you really
> have to
> choose the right gear.  The brakes didn't seem very good either,
> though maybe
> it's just the particular sample I had.

> If only I could have driven it over to the Glen for some laps...

> Mark

Well, buy it!!!:)

Minis are probably the best  production cars to demonstrate how much fun
driving was once upon a time! !

Matt
(Mini owner & racer::)

--

Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars (http://home.sn.no/~kareknut)

"Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
       -Cale Yarborough

Joe Droga

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Joe Droga » Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I agree!!!



> > I work for a car company and, last night, I got to take a Mini Cooper
> > home.
> > It's the first time I've ever driven one and it reminded me very much
> > of GPL,
> > and vice-versa.  Very direct and mechanical-feeling, and you really
> > have to
> > choose the right gear.  The brakes didn't seem very good either,
> > though maybe
> > it's just the particular sample I had.

> > If only I could have driven it over to the Glen for some laps...

> > Mark

> Well, buy it!!!:)

> Minis are probably the best  production cars to demonstrate how much fun
> driving was once upon a time! !

> Matt
> (Mini owner & racer::)

> --

> Matthew Birger Knutsen
> Cheek Racing Cars (http://home.sn.no/~kareknut)

> "Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
>        -Cale Yarborough

Cossi

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Cossi » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Correct me if I am wrong, in a skip barber car, you only hit the clutch
downshifting, but you keep the car full throttle upshifting

Nathan Wo

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Nathan Wo » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:47:44 -0700, Dave Henrie


>  #2 TB..and here's why.
>     Most of the motley crue that drives today has been spoonfed on our modern
>Gearbox racers.  F1 cars shift on the fly in microseconds...CART CHAMP cars
>sequential gearbox also has shift on the fly capabilities...The N2 model did
>address the clutch for several reasons...mainly, cuz they probably didn't have
>a clue how to do it back then.
>  And controllers are very limited in the clutch pedal area.  TSW I have heard
>will be bringing that option out.
>  Now...finally my reason...You will have to learn the most basic of racing
>techniques if you use a clutch...Heel-Toe footwork.  Your heal on the brake,
>toes on the gas, and the left foot on the brake...Learn it now or be left
>behind by the big shots.  So while lifting off the gas may seem foreign to
>you...after a day or two of concentrating on it...you'll be feeling odd driving
>the other sims where you keep the gas mashed.

Heel and Toe

TOES on the brake and HEEL on the throttle. (Unless you're driving a
truck with the throttle in the middle)
I defy anyone to brake with as much modulation and feel using their
heel compared to their toes.

--
Nathan Wong          http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
                       - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo -

                            - V8Supercars - CART -

Stephen Hinck

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Stephen Hinck » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I think its called Flat shifting.

Used to flat shift an rs200 Escort years ago.


> Correct me if I am wrong, in a skip barber car, you only hit the clutch
> downshifting, but you keep the car full throttle upshifting

--

In a feeble attempt to thwart spammers I have altered my email address.

Remove the obvious bit before replying.

"... and the Information Superhighway gave us all the chance to find out

Homer the Great

John Walla

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by John Walla » Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:00:00

On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 22:47:44 -0700, Dave Henrie


>  Now...finally my reason...You will have to learn the most basic of racing
>techniques if you use a clutch...Heel-Toe footwork.  Your heal on the brake,
>toes on the gas, and the left foot on the brake...Learn it now or be left
>behind by the big shots.

I'd like to see anyone learn to drive like that! Ouch!

"Heel and toe" is simply braking with the majority of your right foot,
while the right hand side of your right foot "blips" the throttle
before engagin gear on the downshift. The "heel" part is simply the
pivot as your foot moves from accelerator across to brake.

Someone at a driving school once told me that the name came from the
good old days when the accelerator was in the centre and the brake on
the right, but I don't know for sure about that.

Cheers!
John

Bruce Kennewel

Gearshifting, What do YOU do

by Bruce Kennewel » Sun, 12 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Totally agree, Nathan.
That's the way I, and my colleagues, have practised it for the past 30 years.


> Heel and Toe

> TOES on the brake and HEEL on the throttle. (Unless you're driving a
> truck with the throttle in the middle)
> I defy anyone to brake with as much modulation and feel using their
> heel compared to their toes.

> --
> Nathan Wong          http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
>                        - Super Touring - Alfa Romeo -

>                             - V8Supercars - CART -

--
Bruce.
(At home)

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