****
"Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles per
second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't that just
the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap (quote
approximate)
In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out of
the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you are
probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but don't
try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down. Use
either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the default....and
don't***with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate you
for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its a
really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
Good luck......
Tom
PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a week.
I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the backcourse
section.....being used today.
>In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out of
>the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you are
>probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but don't
>try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down. Use
>either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the default....and
>don't***with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
>practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate you
>for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its a
>really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
>Good luck......
>Tom
>PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
>track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a week.
>I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the backcourse
>section.....being used today.
>> I have been trying Sears Point in NR2K and can't keep it in the raod! I
>do
>> SCGT and seem to do OK? Are the physics of the cars off a little or is it
>me?
>> (It COULD be me..).. I do OK on the ovals.
>> ****
>> "Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles per
>> second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't that
>just
>> the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap
>(quote
>> approximate)
-Larry
> >If you are also having similar problems at Watkins Glen.....then its
either
> >your driving skills or your equipment (controller). If not....then its
> >Sears Point....its a tough track.
> >In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out
of
> >the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you
are
> >probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but
don't
> >try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down.
Use
> >either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the
default....and
> >don't***with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
> >practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate you
> >for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its a
> >really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
> >Good luck......
> >Tom
> >PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
> >track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a
week.
> >I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the backcourse
> >section.....being used today.
> >> I have been trying Sears Point in NR2K and can't keep it in the raod!
I
> >do
> >> SCGT and seem to do OK? Are the physics of the cars off a little or is
it
> >me?
> >> (It COULD be me..).. I do OK on the ovals.
> >> ****
> >> "Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles
per
> >> second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't that
> >just
> >> the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap
> >(quote
> >> approximate)
> Tim Wortman
> North American Simulation Series
> www.nasscar.com
What I can comment is how the N2K2 Cup car feels compared to a real race
car.....similar but not exact as a WC car (a GTA car).....and in my opinion,
the N2K2 grip is correct. Cup cars have a very small tire patch compared to
their weight and horsepower. Sears has very few flat surfaces in either
braking or accelerating zones....and the track surface is NOT grippy...its
old and tired (that will be changed after this year's WC race....since the
track surface will be entirely new for next year). Additionally, there's
plenty of sim drivers that can turn 117's on the N2K2 Sears (albeit...not an
easy accomplishment) and that's in line with today's qualifying runs.
Additionally, I should add that the under-powered (but lower weight) SW Tour
Featherlite cars can run 1-2 seconds a lap faster than the Cup
cars......partly because of their positraction rears allowed...too! I also
think they run a wider tire...but I'm not certain of that without checking.
When the ALMS cars are here....they all *** about the slippery track
surface. Yet, Alan McNish two years ago was blistering fast.....beating the
old track record held by Geoff Brabham in a Nissan GTP car a few years
back...by more than two seconds! But at the same time.....his teammates
driving the same car couldn't run within 2 or 3 seconds of Alan on the same
weekend. Sears is a track suited for some drivers....but not suited for
most. I'm in the "not suited" category and have always been slow
there.....it frustrates the heck out of me (even sim racing...I'm dog slow
at Sears...and I have a bazillion laps there....my home track). Whereas,
I'd go up to Portland and just show up with a "so-so" car and be top five
right out of the box...usually on the pole when the day was
over........against the same guys with the same equipment. Its the nature
of racing, I guess?
I'm not trying to be "argumentative" on the grip factor thing.....but I
don't think it is a science....I think its more of a subjective adjustment
the Papy physics guys use to adjust the AI performance to match
real-world......and that makes it more voodoo and mirrors...rather than an
objective tool. And, its going to be a long while before any of us human
sim drivers can match the continuity and consistency of the AI....IHMO.
So...Papy puts an AI adjustment slider in there.......and calls it good!
Its not perfect....but it works....IMHO.
Tom
> >If you are also having similar problems at Watkins Glen.....then its
either
> >your driving skills or your equipment (controller). If not....then its
> >Sears Point....its a tough track.
> >In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out
of
> >the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you
are
> >probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but
don't
> >try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down.
Use
> >either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the
default....and
> >don't***with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
> >practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate you
> >for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its a
> >really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
> >Good luck......
> >Tom
> >PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
> >track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a
week.
> >I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the backcourse
> >section.....being used today.
> >> I have been trying Sears Point in NR2K and can't keep it in the raod!
I
> >do
> >> SCGT and seem to do OK? Are the physics of the cars off a little or is
it
> >me?
> >> (It COULD be me..).. I do OK on the ovals.
> >> ****
> >> "Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles
per
> >> second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't that
> >just
> >> the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap
> >(quote
> >> approximate)
> Tim Wortman
> North American Simulation Series
> www.nasscar.com
> What I can comment is how the N2K2 Cup car feels compared to a real race
> car.....similar but not exact as a WC car (a GTA car).....and in my opinion,
> the N2K2 grip is correct. Cup cars have a very small tire patch compared to
> their weight and horsepower. Sears has very few flat surfaces in either
> braking or accelerating zones....and the track surface is NOT grippy...its
> old and tired (that will be changed after this year's WC race....since the
> track surface will be entirely new for next year). Additionally, there's
> plenty of sim drivers that can turn 117's on the N2K2 Sears (albeit...not an
> easy accomplishment) and that's in line with today's qualifying runs.
> Additionally, I should add that the under-powered (but lower weight) SW Tour
> Featherlite cars can run 1-2 seconds a lap faster than the Cup
> cars......partly because of their positraction rears allowed...too! I also
> think they run a wider tire...but I'm not certain of that without checking.
> When the ALMS cars are here....they all *** about the slippery track
> surface. Yet, Alan McNish two years ago was blistering fast.....beating the
> old track record held by Geoff Brabham in a Nissan GTP car a few years
> back...by more than two seconds! But at the same time.....his teammates
> driving the same car couldn't run within 2 or 3 seconds of Alan on the same
> weekend. Sears is a track suited for some drivers....but not suited for
> most. I'm in the "not suited" category and have always been slow
> there.....it frustrates the heck out of me (even sim racing...I'm dog slow
> at Sears...and I have a bazillion laps there....my home track). Whereas,
> I'd go up to Portland and just show up with a "so-so" car and be top five
> right out of the box...usually on the pole when the day was
> over........against the same guys with the same equipment. Its the nature
> of racing, I guess?
> I'm not trying to be "argumentative" on the grip factor thing.....but I
> don't think it is a science....I think its more of a subjective adjustment
> the Papy physics guys use to adjust the AI performance to match
> real-world......and that makes it more voodoo and mirrors...rather than an
> objective tool. And, its going to be a long while before any of us human
> sim drivers can match the continuity and consistency of the AI....IHMO.
> So...Papy puts an AI adjustment slider in there.......and calls it good!
> Its not perfect....but it works....IMHO.
> Tom
>>That's bs...this track is screwed up, from a grip factor standpoint.
>>>If you are also having similar problems at Watkins Glen.....then its
> either
>>>your driving skills or your equipment (controller). If not....then its
>>>Sears Point....its a tough track.
>>>In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out
> of
>>>the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you
> are
>>>probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but
> don't
>>>try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down.
> Use
>>>either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the
> default....and
>>>don't***with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
>>>practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate you
>>>for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its a
>>>really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
>>>Good luck......
>>>Tom
>>>PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
>>>track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a
> week.
>>>I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the backcourse
>>>section.....being used today.
>>>>I have been trying Sears Point in NR2K and can't keep it in the raod!
> I
>>>do
>>>>SCGT and seem to do OK? Are the physics of the cars off a little or is
> it
>>>me?
>>>>(It COULD be me..).. I do OK on the ovals.
>>>>****
>>>>"Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles
> per
>>>>second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't that
>>>just
>>>>the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap
>>>(quote
>>>>approximate)
>> Tim Wortman
>> North American Simulation Series
>> www.nasscar.com
If you mentioned Boris Said's q run in order to say that N2002's physics are
off because its cars can't be taken around Sears Point in a similar manner,
maybe have a look at this page:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
where you'll among others find this zip file:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
zip
No bragging intended, I'm just tyring to show that Sears laps can look quite
realistic in N2002.
Achim
The simulate real cars quite well, that is something I can tell. And they
aren't that far off when it comes to simulating that specific car class
(Nascars) either, that's what you can tell.
All in all, no reason to blame it on the physics if you keep falling off ;-)
While I'm at it, I like this new layout of the track better than the old
one. Very fun to drive.
Achim
> What I can comment is how the N2K2 Cup car feels compared to a real race
> car.....similar but not exact as a WC car (a GTA car).....and in my
opinion,
> the N2K2 grip is correct. Cup cars have a very small tire patch compared
to
> their weight and horsepower. Sears has very few flat surfaces in either
> braking or accelerating zones....and the track surface is NOT grippy...its
> old and tired (that will be changed after this year's WC race....since the
> track surface will be entirely new for next year). Additionally, there's
> plenty of sim drivers that can turn 117's on the N2K2 Sears (albeit...not
an
> easy accomplishment) and that's in line with today's qualifying runs.
> Additionally, I should add that the under-powered (but lower weight) SW
Tour
> Featherlite cars can run 1-2 seconds a lap faster than the Cup
> cars......partly because of their positraction rears allowed...too! I
also
> think they run a wider tire...but I'm not certain of that without
checking.
> When the ALMS cars are here....they all *** about the slippery track
> surface. Yet, Alan McNish two years ago was blistering fast.....beating
the
> old track record held by Geoff Brabham in a Nissan GTP car a few years
> back...by more than two seconds! But at the same time.....his teammates
> driving the same car couldn't run within 2 or 3 seconds of Alan on the
same
> weekend. Sears is a track suited for some drivers....but not suited for
> most. I'm in the "not suited" category and have always been slow
> there.....it frustrates the heck out of me (even sim racing...I'm dog slow
> at Sears...and I have a bazillion laps there....my home track). Whereas,
> I'd go up to Portland and just show up with a "so-so" car and be top five
> right out of the box...usually on the pole when the day was
> over........against the same guys with the same equipment. Its the nature
> of racing, I guess?
> I'm not trying to be "argumentative" on the grip factor thing.....but I
> don't think it is a science....I think its more of a subjective adjustment
> the Papy physics guys use to adjust the AI performance to match
> real-world......and that makes it more voodoo and mirrors...rather than an
> objective tool. And, its going to be a long while before any of us human
> sim drivers can match the continuity and consistency of the AI....IHMO.
> So...Papy puts an AI adjustment slider in there.......and calls it good!
> Its not perfect....but it works....IMHO.
> Tom
> > That's bs...this track is screwed up, from a grip factor standpoint.
> > >If you are also having similar problems at Watkins Glen.....then its
> either
> > >your driving skills or your equipment (controller). If not....then its
> > >Sears Point....its a tough track.
> > >In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out
> of
> > >the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you
> are
> > >probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but
> don't
> > >try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down.
> Use
> > >either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the
> default....and
> > >don't***with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
> > >practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate
you
> > >for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its
a
> > >really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
> > >Good luck......
> > >Tom
> > >PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
> > >track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a
> week.
> > >I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the
backcourse
> > >section.....being used today.
> > >> I have been trying Sears Point in NR2K and can't keep it in the raod!
> I
> > >do
> > >> SCGT and seem to do OK? Are the physics of the cars off a little or
is
> it
> > >me?
> > >> (It COULD be me..).. I do OK on the ovals.
> > >> ****
> > >> "Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500
miles
> per
> > >> second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't
that
> > >just
> > >> the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap
> > >(quote
> > >> approximate)
> > Tim Wortman
> > North American Simulation Series
> > www.nasscar.com
I didn't "help design" the original WC Chute section of the track. That was
done by the track architect's and engineers.....a few years back. That part
of the track was changed without any "testing" of the variable
configurations that the lay of the land could have allowed. There's a whole
"history" on this at the Sears site....and elsewhere (try the SCCA SFO
Region pages too). What I helped with was after the track made the original
WC Chute....and proved over the course of three or four years after....that
it did not function as intended (mostly because the Cup drivers ***ed
about it....frankly).....when the track management got tired of throwing
"fixes" into the project at a million bucks a pop......they turned to us for
some help (quite by accident, I might add). We simulated that section of
the track in several configs.....let about two dozen Cup drivers run it in
our sims.....and essentially "vote" for the one they liked and thought
"worked" best. ESPN has about a 10 minute interview on tape....with Jeff
Gordon...discussing all this along with running on our sims. I haven't seen
it in a while...but it does exist. I too was interviewed at the same
filming...but the tape was never aired....to my knowledge. The WC Chute
being run today (and last year)....is essentially the winner of their
voting. There's really a lot more to the story....but that's the "Reader's
Digest" version of it.
I, you.....and just about everyone who ever raced at Sears (and the majority
of the Cup drivers) didn't want to see the WC Chute even built in the first
place. But.....the reasons for its construction were good....just not very
good for the drivers who run the track. Basically......it was a "fan
viewing" issue...and the fact that the "sportscar layout".....or "Carousel
layout"...(both are terms used for the old Sears track config).......didn't
fit into the SMI long-term plans for the viewing improvements that are in
place for this weekend's race. This original track config still exists
(altered slightly from the traditional one....but essentially the
same).....and is used for every other racing event at Sears...EXCEPT....the
WC race. It was a dollars-and-cents.....reason...pure and simple.
Hope that helps with some partial answers to your question?
Tom
> > I can't comment on the "grip factor"....are there some absolutes....that
can
> > be used as comparisons? I don't think so.
> > What I can comment is how the N2K2 Cup car feels compared to a real race
> > car.....similar but not exact as a WC car (a GTA car).....and in my
opinion,
> > the N2K2 grip is correct. Cup cars have a very small tire patch
compared to
> > their weight and horsepower. Sears has very few flat surfaces in either
> > braking or accelerating zones....and the track surface is NOT
grippy...its
> > old and tired (that will be changed after this year's WC race....since
the
> > track surface will be entirely new for next year). Additionally,
there's
> > plenty of sim drivers that can turn 117's on the N2K2 Sears
(albeit...not an
> > easy accomplishment) and that's in line with today's qualifying runs.
> > Additionally, I should add that the under-powered (but lower weight) SW
Tour
> > Featherlite cars can run 1-2 seconds a lap faster than the Cup
> > cars......partly because of their positraction rears allowed...too! I
also
> > think they run a wider tire...but I'm not certain of that without
checking.
> > When the ALMS cars are here....they all *** about the slippery track
> > surface. Yet, Alan McNish two years ago was blistering fast.....beating
the
> > old track record held by Geoff Brabham in a Nissan GTP car a few years
> > back...by more than two seconds! But at the same time.....his teammates
> > driving the same car couldn't run within 2 or 3 seconds of Alan on the
same
> > weekend. Sears is a track suited for some drivers....but not suited for
> > most. I'm in the "not suited" category and have always been slow
> > there.....it frustrates the heck out of me (even sim racing...I'm dog
slow
> > at Sears...and I have a bazillion laps there....my home track).
Whereas,
> > I'd go up to Portland and just show up with a "so-so" car and be top
five
> > right out of the box...usually on the pole when the day was
> > over........against the same guys with the same equipment. Its the
nature
> > of racing, I guess?
> > I'm not trying to be "argumentative" on the grip factor thing.....but I
> > don't think it is a science....I think its more of a subjective
adjustment
> > the Papy physics guys use to adjust the AI performance to match
> > real-world......and that makes it more voodoo and mirrors...rather than
an
> > objective tool. And, its going to be a long while before any of us
human
> > sim drivers can match the continuity and consistency of the AI....IHMO.
> > So...Papy puts an AI adjustment slider in there.......and calls it good!
> > Its not perfect....but it works....IMHO.
> > Tom
> >>That's bs...this track is screwed up, from a grip factor standpoint.
> >>>If you are also having similar problems at Watkins Glen.....then its
> > either
> >>>your driving skills or your equipment (controller). If not....then its
> >>>Sears Point....its a tough track.
> >>>In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out
> > of
> >>>the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you
> > are
> >>>probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but
> > don't
> >>>try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down.
> > Use
> >>>either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the
> > default....and
> >>>don't***with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
> >>>practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate
you
> >>>for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its
a
> >>>really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
> >>>Good luck......
> >>>Tom
> >>>PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
> >>>track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a
> > week.
> >>>I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the
backcourse
> >>>section.....being used today.
> >>>>I have been trying Sears Point in NR2K and can't keep it in the raod!
> > I
> >>>do
> >>>>SCGT and seem to do OK? Are the physics of the cars off a little or
is
> > it
> >>>me?
> >>>>(It COULD be me..).. I do OK on the ovals.
> >>>>****
> >>>>"Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles
> > per
> >>>>second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't
that
> >>>just
> >>>>the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by*** Schaap
> >>>(quote
> >>>>approximate)
> >> Tim Wortman
> >> North American Simulation Series
> >> www.nasscar.com
> I think the physics for road races are way off. The cars are way to
> squirrly. The game is more suited towards ovals. Did you happen to see Boris
> Said q today? He had drove this***out of it! It's too bad he wasn't in a
> better car\team.
Just make sure you don't overdrive the car, the tires go off very fast
if you do and from then on you're in trouble, and if you have a problem
with the rear end breaking loose on you and you can't seem to modulate
the throttle properly, try taking the corner in a higher gear, T1 at
Watkins in 2nd gear for example
If you set the car up for it properly, these cars can be hustled around
with power slides and stuff, very entertaining, not very fast and very
*** the tires :-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"The Pits" http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--
I can guarantee you that the physics are more realistic in NR2K2 than in
SCGT, so it's either you (or possibly your hardware).
Here's how I learned to drive Sears Point and Watkins Glen:
1) Use either the chase driving view or the roof driving view. It
really helps to be able to see down the track.
2) Learn your shift-up, shift-down, and braking points. If you don't
know where these are, you're not going to be able to keep the car on the
track.
3) Learn proper use of the accelerator. You can't just stab the gas and
hope for the best.
4) You have to be able to know what your car is going to do in traffic,
and how to adjust your brake/shift/accel points to compensate for side-
by-side racing (yes, side-by-side racing does happen at Sears Point).
5) At no point can you over-drive a turn and expect to come out of it
without leaving the track.
6) DO NOT abuse your tires. If they get hot on you, you will lose a
certain amount of grip and this will most definitely affect your
performance in terms of lap times AND ability to control the car. If
you do heat them up pretty badly by sliding through a turn, you'll have
to slow your pace a bit (maybe half a lap) to let them cool off enough
to resume your normal pace. I am not the best at tire management, but I
can go about 30 laps with the <fast> setup at Sears Point before needing
to stop for tires (all four will be red at that point).
Sears Point is easy as long as you don't drive beyond your abilities (as
determined by your setup).
--
=========================================================
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If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================
> I didn't "help design" the original WC Chute section of the track. That was
> done by the track architect's and engineers.....a few years back. That part
> of the track was changed without any "testing" of the variable
> configurations that the lay of the land could have allowed. There's a whole
> "history" on this at the Sears site....and elsewhere (try the SCCA SFO
> Region pages too). What I helped with was after the track made the original
> WC Chute....and proved over the course of three or four years after....that
> it did not function as intended (mostly because the Cup drivers bitched
> about it....frankly).....when the track management got tired of throwing
> "fixes" into the project at a million bucks a pop......they turned to us for
> some help (quite by accident, I might add). We simulated that section of
> the track in several configs.....let about two dozen Cup drivers run it in
> our sims.....and essentially "vote" for the one they liked and thought
> "worked" best. ESPN has about a 10 minute interview on tape....with Jeff
> Gordon...discussing all this along with running on our sims. I haven't seen
> it in a while...but it does exist. I too was interviewed at the same
> filming...but the tape was never aired....to my knowledge. The WC Chute
> being run today (and last year)....is essentially the winner of their
> voting. There's really a lot more to the story....but that's the "Reader's
> Digest" version of it.
> I, you.....and just about everyone who ever raced at Sears (and the majority
> of the Cup drivers) didn't want to see the WC Chute even built in the first
> place. But.....the reasons for its construction were good....just not very
> good for the drivers who run the track. Basically......it was a "fan
> viewing" issue...and the fact that the "sportscar layout".....or "Carousel
> layout"...(both are terms used for the old Sears track config).......didn't
> fit into the SMI long-term plans for the viewing improvements that are in
> place for this weekend's race. This original track config still exists
> (altered slightly from the traditional one....but essentially the
> same).....and is used for every other racing event at Sears...EXCEPT....the
> WC race. It was a dollars-and-cents.....reason...pure and simple.
> Hope that helps with some partial answers to your question?
> Tom
> "Brad Larocque" <blarocq...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:3D13FEFF.40106@shaw.ca...
>>I didn't know you helped design the chute section. But I have one
>>question. Why did they add this part to the track? I liked seeing the
>>cars run downhill and on to the dragstip leading up to turn 7.
>>Tom Pabst wrote:
>>>I can't comment on the "grip factor"....are there some absolutes....that
> can
>>>be used as comparisons? I don't think so.
>>>What I can comment is how the N2K2 Cup car feels compared to a real race
>>>car.....similar but not exact as a WC car (a GTA car).....and in my
> opinion,
>>>the N2K2 grip is correct. Cup cars have a very small tire patch
> compared to
>>>their weight and horsepower. Sears has very few flat surfaces in either
>>>braking or accelerating zones....and the track surface is NOT
> grippy...its
>>>old and tired (that will be changed after this year's WC race....since
> the
>>>track surface will be entirely new for next year). Additionally,
> there's
>>>plenty of sim drivers that can turn 117's on the N2K2 Sears
> (albeit...not an
>>>easy accomplishment) and that's in line with today's qualifying runs.
>>>Additionally, I should add that the under-powered (but lower weight) SW
> Tour
>>>Featherlite cars can run 1-2 seconds a lap faster than the Cup
>>>cars......partly because of their positraction rears allowed...too! I
> also
>>>think they run a wider tire...but I'm not certain of that without
> checking.
>>>When the ALMS cars are here....they all bitch about the slippery track
>>>surface. Yet, Alan McNish two years ago was blistering fast.....beating
> the
>>>old track record held by Geoff Brabham in a Nissan GTP car a few years
>>>back...by more than two seconds! But at the same time.....his teammates
>>>driving the same car couldn't run within 2 or 3 seconds of Alan on the
> same
>>>weekend. Sears is a track suited for some drivers....but not suited for
>>>most. I'm in the "not suited" category and have always been slow
>>>there.....it frustrates the heck out of me (even sim racing...I'm dog
> slow
>>>at Sears...and I have a bazillion laps there....my home track).
> Whereas,
>>>I'd go up to Portland and just show up with a "so-so" car and be top
> five
>>>right out of the box...usually on the pole when the day was
>>>over........against the same guys with the same equipment. Its the
> nature
>>>of racing, I guess?
>>>I'm not trying to be "argumentative" on the grip factor thing.....but I
>>>don't think it is a science....I think its more of a subjective
> adjustment
>>>the Papy physics guys use to adjust the AI performance to match
>>>real-world......and that makes it more voodoo and mirrors...rather than
> an
>>>objective tool. And, its going to be a long while before any of us
> human
>>>sim drivers can match the continuity and consistency of the AI....IHMO.
>>>So...Papy puts an AI adjustment slider in there.......and calls it good!
>>>Its not perfect....but it works....IMHO.
>>>Tom
>>>"TimW" <timwNOS...@nasscar.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3d13eef8.11296635@netnews.insightbb.com...
>>>>That's bs...this track is screwed up, from a grip factor standpoint.
>>>>On Sat, 22 Jun 2002 02:52:02 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@attbi.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>If you are also having similar problems at Watkins Glen.....then its
>>>either
>>>>>your driving skills or your equipment (controller). If not....then its
>>>>>Sears Point....its a tough track.
>>>>>In a Cup car......you have very little margin of error.....slightly out
>>>of
>>>>>the line, slightly too much brake.....or slightly too much gas.....you
>>>are
>>>>>probably going off course. Study the "driving lesson" in N2K2.....but
>>>don't
>>>>>try to do more than 88mph laps (or so)....until you have the line down.
>>>Use
>>>>>either the "fast" or "intermediate" setup that comes as the
>>>default....and
>>>>>don't screw with the setup for at least the first 50 hours or so of
>>>>>practicing. Like DW says in the lesson...."This place will frustrate
> you
>>>>>for awhile....but stay at it and you'll get it figured out and then its
> a
>>>>>really fun place to race at (paraphrased)."
>>>>>Good luck......
>>>>>Tom
>>>>>PS: Since I don't know you.....I should tell you this is my "home race
>>>>>track"....and for the last 4 months, I go to work there about 4 days a
>>>week.
>>>>>I also helped design the current Winston Cup Chute part of the
> backcourse
>>>>>section.....being used today.
>>>>>"TlgtrProd" <tlgtrp...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
>>>>>news:20020621222445.17890.00001745@mb-bk.aol.com...
>>>>>>I have been trying Sears Point in NR2K and can't keep it in the raod!
>>>I
>>>>>do
>>>>>>SCGT and seem to do OK? Are the physics of the cars off a little or
> is
>>>it
>>>>>me?
>>>>>>(It COULD be me..).. I do OK on the ovals.
>>>>>>****
>>>>>>"Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles
>>>per
>>>>>>second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't
> that
>>>>>just
>>>>>>the neatest thing?" - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by Dick Schaap
>>>>>(quote
>>>>>>approximate)
>>>> Tim Wortman
>>>> North American Simulation Series
>>>> www.nasscar.com
First 50 hours?!? Who the f... has that kind of time to practice on ONE
TRACK...?
Sigh...
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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