rec.autos.simulators

writes

"Most" of the domestic market?! Really?

I may be in the UK, but even from here I would have thought drag racing
is virtually dictionary definition of "niche". I'm not a particular
NASCAR fan (the sport), but I enjoy running NASCAR because it's fun to
drive - loose, door-to-door, pitstops. You know - "driving".

Drag-racing is "who can go fastest down a straight road". Where's the
fun in that? Don't get me wrong, if you like it and someone makes it,
I'm very happy for you. I personally would race farm vehicles if someone
made a sim, but nothing on earth would entice me to buy a drag sim, and
I think that the talents of Papyrus would be wasted on something as
unsubtle as that.

No offence intended, but it's my strong opinion.

Cheers!
John

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--------------------------------------------------------------------Here's a couple of tracks that I'd like to see:

Or how about a simulation of the Ford GT40's, MKII's and Cobras
contesting the Ferraris and Porsches for the GT and Prototype
Championships in the mid 60's.  They ran endurance races on many of these
tracks.

Mike R.

--------------------------------------------------------------------Here's a couple of tracks that I'd like to see:

Or how about a simulation of the Ford GT40's, MKII's and Cobras
contesting the Ferraris and Porsches for the GT and Prototype
Championships in the mid 60's.  They ran endurance races on many of these
tracks.

Mike R.

: do you really think people are going to buy a game where they get to
: drive in a straight line?

: i know i wouldn't...

I remember a drag racing "sim" (I use the term loosely) that I had for my
old Apple //c.  It was called Top Fuel Eliminator, if I remember
correctly.  It was awfully fun, with a heavy emphasis on pre-heat setup,
including wing angle, blower pressure, nitro mix, etc.

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Give me a sim where I

Sounds like you're ready for ITCC (Nascar on road courses)
:-)
Blatent plug for fun
Mike

I'd really like to see Papyrus do a "build your own" game.  

Design your own tracks (how's about a 5 mile long 'dega, or a track like NH
with banking like Bristol... or a 1/4 mile short track... or a flat Daytona...
or an SCCA-type parking lot track with orange cones).  

And design your own cars (Want 2000 HP, no problem.  Why not run a top fuel
funny car around a closed course.  Or a high powered go-cart?)   Or see how
your street car might do at Michigan.

Rain.  Tires.  Track surfaces (maybe dirt!).

I really dont't think this would be a big stretch for them... quite simply, a
track editor, and a car editor.  That's it.  The internet being the way it is
now, I could see people creating all sorts of very accurate vehicles for people
to use.

It certainly could be a bit less serious than the current sims out there, but
sure would be a lot of fun.

Another cool thing would be a city simulator, sort of like MS Flight
Simulator, except on the ground.  Imagine ripping around NYC at rush hour (as
if that's any sort of stretch).

-Steve

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On Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:46:34 +0100, John Wallace

I dunno, John.. I agree an NHRA sim would be boring if limited to
offline competition... but can you imagine what would happen if there
was an IPX or Hawaii version?  Going up against your friends to see
who's the fastest on the gears, etc.?  I think even YOU might change
yer tune.. <G>
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I also still have the old hand-held "Red Line" drag racing game.
Man, is the sound neat on that thing.  OK, so the top fuel car
only goes 281 mph (but inexplicably can do the run in under four
seconds), and you're not racing against anyone unless you have
a second unit connected... but it's still got great sound!

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: Or how about a simulation of the Ford GT40's, MKII's and Cobras
: contesting the Ferraris and Porsches for the GT and Prototype
: Championships in the mid 60's.  They ran endurance races on many of these
: tracks.

Oh, yes please, could you please.  These were the cars that I fell in
love with when I first got hooked on racing.  Talk about cool cars.
I've always wanted a Ford GT40 or MKII.  Putting one in a sim is the
closest I'll ever come to owning one.  

Hope the above doesn't date me too much ;-)

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Yes, I had the same game running on my Apple II GS back about 8-9 years
ago. I also had Shirley Muldowney's Top Fuel Eliminator on my Commodore 64
about 10 years ago. I really liked Shirley Muldowney because it had a clock
and a bank account, along with good graphics. If you won your race but
broke your ride while doing so, you better hope you can fix it in the 90
(simulated) minutes between races and that you have the cash for it. If
not, you didn't make the next round (just like real life).

I haven't had or seen a drag racing game since then. Both were very fun
games...I can't understand why no one has made one since. Even Dragster on
my Atari 2600 fif*** years ago was a decent game.

Kevin

<snip>
: Well, the only problem with this kind of game is that the cars just won't have
: any performance.  

The 60's IndyCars had enough performance to be called racecars.  I think
150 mph lap record was done in 1962 or 1963.  Today's Nascars reach 170+
mph (Brickyard), and I haven't seen complaints that they are too slow for
being used in racing simulator.  I don't know what the IndyCar lap record
was later in 60's, 160-170 mph?

It might also be worth noting, that 60's was quite long period in racing
terms.  From early front engined cars, through rear engine design to
late 60's wedge shaped turbine cars and 4 wheel drive...

: Given this, how can I get e***d about driving an OLD car?!  

Old cars means old tracks with "safety last" design;-)

: IMHO, Papyrus would do much better to channel their energies towards
: an F1 sim than something that few of us can relate to.  
<snip>

We already have excellent F1 simulator.  At least I'm satisfied if
Papyrus makes something new for the sim players.  

Pasi.

Tony, Tony, Tony - you know me well enough to know that the Winter
Olympics will be held in Hades on the day that I change my tune :)

Seriously, for me the joy in racing is the "on the edge" stuff, jousting
for the line into the corner with another car, using brake, steering and
throttle to balance the car on the edge of oversteer or understeer,
picking a line through a chicane and barrelling through. Watching for
the lights and crashing up through the gears as fast as possible is
something I do every time I have a race in GP2 - then I'm at the first
corner and have all the other fun in front of me (or behind me if I've
made a good 'un!!).

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I honestly see no way that I could be
enticed toward a drag racing sim. It's not a sport I would even watch on
TV never mind go to see or buy a sim, it just doesn't grab me in the joy
department the way Indycars, NASCARs, F1 cars, greyhound buses, famr
vehicles or supermarket trolleys do.

Cheers!
John

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An average person in the US has no idea what "F1" is, and "Indycar"
just means the Indy500.

But  drag racing sim... I'm not knowledgable about drag racing, but I
could imagine a sim being done well, and it being popular here. It
would have almost no relation to the sorts of things GP2, ICR2, or
NASCAR are about- It would probably have to be intensely graphics and
audio oriented. It would be an interesting challenge to make- no need
to worry about AI, no huge, meandering tracks to digitize and fit in
to memory. Just fantastic graphics speed for a short time, and trying
to convey accelleration to the user- tough.

All in all, it would probably share more programming in common with
some of the bowling sims that are pretty popular here, than with
another racing sim.

Also:

Pau, France
Oulton Park, UK
Goodwood, UK
Knockhill, UK
Brands Hatch - Both courses (Club Circuit and GP Circuit)
and that place in/near Malaysia that I can't remember the name of right now, but was
built out of reclaimed land.

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C'mon, blown Offenhausers on skinny tires should be a truly thrilling
simulation experience.  I remember when rear-engine cars with fat
tires came along, many people felt the 'improvements' made watching
racing about exciting as watching slot cars.  I'd definitely be a
purchaser.  
Oh, yes.  Throw in the Mille Miglia and a big front-engined Merc and
I'd pay large dollars.

Quite right.  Drags would be the ultimate niche product.  The three
obvious contenders would be rally (not an American favourite, though,
so not likely for Papyrus), dirt (would sure be different!) or some
form of sedan/saloon car racing (but it would feel an awful lot like
Nascar III, wouldn't it?) Personally, I'd love to see the historical
game and then a sprint-midget game.  Yeeha!

Kurt Sanders