rec.autos.simulators

Goy,

I've been attending Motor Racing for a very long time, since a very young age,
and in that time i've seen all manner of dangerous *** and fatal crashes.
I've seen spectators badly injured, and i guess maybe i'm desencitized, but i
really don't see this latest incident as anything new or different to jump up
and down about. it's been happening a long time, it will continue to happen in
Motorsport, because it's ***y dangerous to drivers, marshalls and spectators
alike.

If you think due to the nature of the topic, i'm going out my way to be
offensive becuase of the nature, i'm not. It would seem perhaps i see as
inevitable with reagrds to spectating at motor racing, and it's for sure that
i don't want to see close spectating to end.

But that issue aside, i do feel strongly about off topic posts.

Motorsport has probably one of the strongest and better Usenet communties when
it comes newsgroup's and the rec.autos.sports.* groups cover F1, Cart, IRL and
NASCAR more than adequately- Some woudl venture much better than most news
sources ever manage.

I fail to see, and continue to fail how to see such posts even remotely belong
here in r.a.s They are off-topic.

I do personally know some people who have become motor sports fans based on
Sims they have played. If you have never checked out the *real thing* or
involved yourself in posts on the real flavours of the sims you play, head on
over the the rec.auto.sport.* groups.

Sure there's better, but there certainly a lot worse places to start as well.
Maybe you might even find you enjoy watching the real thing more fun than
playing the sim of it

Z.

That's not a point. Those people would have been killed if they would have
been to a soccer match or something like that, too.

Besides,
It should be the first concern in motorsports to avoid spectators being
killed or getting injured. Obviously, the safety isn't a important in
those idiot American ovalraces.

The only thing that counts is spectacle. It is ridiculous to let guys go
through corners at 350 km/h with a concrete wall 1 meter next to them and
spectators 50 cm behind that wall. C.A.R.T. can learn much about safety
from Formula one

Han

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                                        Cruyff over van Gaal

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Get off your soapbox, Zonk!!

Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club  is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

What a silly, uninformed statement you have made!

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club  is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

Zonker wrote

But can't you see that Off-Topic posting are accepted since _YEARS_ here on
r.a.s. and I don't see why it should not be tolerated.  I can start a
democratic voting process if you want and make the changes to the
charter/FAQ if you want.

Heck off-topic posting make this newsgroup more enjoyable. Don't you see
there isn't any of those big fights and flamewars since around 2months ?
(well that's partially my fault hehe).

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

What are you smoking Zonker, motorsport events are NOT supposed to be
dangerous for spectators, marshalls maybe, but I`d think not, drivers,
well ok there will always be an element of risk and THEY know the risk,
Joe Public does most certainly NOT, and should not have to either

Off-topic maybe, but it`s not totally out of the question that due to
the large number of ppl attending the event and the number off ppl who
read these posts that some of those would be the same ppl, I thought the
original post was a nice gesture, a bit cliche for my taste perhaps,
but some of those ppl might have appreciated that gesture, and then for
you to jump all over Ken in your "quest" was in very bad taste, you
could easily have found 4-5 other threads to complain about here in this
group, the DOS 5.0 thread from Bruce K. springs to mind

I used to be directly involved as a mechanic for a couple of friends on
a national level some years ago, as well as a spectator for the past
twenty years or so, so I`m not a stranger to how it works on both sides
of the fence, which is why I enjoy these sims so much I guess

All I`m asking is that you give the WAY you choose to get rid of the
off-topic postings here some thought

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
UncleGoy on TEN

Goy,

The only way i can think of to make Motorsport *completely* safe for
spectators is to lock them up in an underground room some miles from the
track, and put them in front of a TV.

Risks should be minimised and they are- but you can not plan for the freak
accident, becuase they are just that- freak by nature.

Marshall are probably the most at risk of all the three, i would venture.
Those guys are the unsung hero's of Motorsport.

If you are telling me that Joe Public are not aware of the risk, then i guess
they aren't reading the signs or the back of their ticket.

Which on my ticket for the Btcc round at Brands says

"Warning! Motorsport can be Dangerous!"

"Despite the organisers taking all reasonable precautions unavoidable
accidents can happen, in respect of these you attend events at your own risk."

( http://www.racesimcentral.net/)

Z.

Z.

I'm in the US, and I think his point regarding safety is quite
accurate. Very few of the tracks used for IndyCar have runoffs like
the F1 tracks.
In my opinion, they are OK  for NASCAR (not great - a runoff is always
better than hitting a wall), but a potential disaster for open-wheeled
cars. Open wheeled cars are much more unpredictable when they touch a
wall than a fendered car.
This is doubly true for motorcycle racing. Any of the GP tracks
outside the US are much better than most any US track.
I can't imagine anything scarier than late braking on a bike while
pointing at Armco.

That wheel wouldn't have ended up in the crowd if there was a gravel
trap instead of a wall.
I think Indianapolis is horrible. Seems like every other year someone
gets killed there in practice.

--

 http://www.users.fast.net/~fusion1
 (dirt bikes, rat bikes, rental car abuse...)

Z, if you are against such off topic posts then why are you contributing so
much to this thread? And to everyone else who thinks American motorsports are
so dangerous, then why is this only the first death at a major US race since
1987's Indy 500? Go and do your research again fellas, because on this report
you failed, miserably.

Freek accident, yes, and I`d agree that the one at MIS was just that, I
watched it on the tube and I still can`t figure out how that wheel
managed to clear a 15 ft wall/fence combo

Yep, I agree, don`t know where my thought was at this one

Then you guys have different rules in the UK than we have here in
Norway, no such thing printed on any of my tickets that I`ve seen, and
if anything like this happened here, that track would be shut down
pretty quick, not that it would matter much for those involved I guess

Rallying was actually outlawed here due to a couple of accidents or
close calls, for some 10 years, started again in the mid 80`s if memory
serves me right

Of course there is _some_ element of risk, but then again what doesn`t
have ?

But this is even further from the original topic than ever before, right
?

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
UncleGoy on TEN

Crap!
"Those guys" become marshalls because they love motor racing, may not be
able to compete (for whatever reason) and undertake an officials' role
in order to be close to the action.

I know because I did it for several seasons many, many years ago!  I
didn't do it because of its heroic nature and nor did I give a toss
about any inherent dangers.  It was exciting, got me close to the action
and I could mingle with drivers and their cars.

Simple as that, friend Zonk.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club  is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

-snip-
Really?  How do you come to that conclusion?

Well perhaps Joe Public should...anyone who attends any event of any
sort where there is danger should recognize and accept that
fact...think about airshows, monster truck rallies, hydroboat races
etc.  While I believe that some steps must be taken to ensure the
safety of all concerned, it must also be understood that there is risk
inherent in any of these types of activities...it is one of the
reasons people are drawn to these events.  If you are unwilling to
accept the risk, do not attend.

Then I am surprised that you seem to misunderstand the inherent risks
involved here.

Mike

-snip-
Oval racing Tim, oval racing...big difference between that and
dedicated road courses.

I wouldn't worry too much.  The whinning will eventually remove most
risk from most tracks.

Mike

-snip-
Like any form of motorsport.

Perhaps in your opinion...I appreciate all forms of motorsports for
what they are, risks and all.  It is a shame that some people are
unable to do the same.  If you don't like it, don't support it.

You sound like an arrogant European (that is a shame...that honour
usually falls on American shoulders)...if you were to follow the CART
series at all, you would see how wrong you are.

Mike

Oh, man, oh, man, where to begin on THIS one...

Well, let's start with the obvious.  First off, it's not CART's decision as to
how the crowd is protected at MIS.  It's entirely Roger Penske's call--he owns
the track, not CART.  Only Bernie Ecclestone seems to be able to convince track
owners that he should decide how "safe" their track is.

Next up, the spectators aren't exactly 50cm from the wall.  I've sat in the
front row immediately adjacent to where Fernandez hit (which downright terrified
me when I saw the ttape on the news, FWIW), and there's approximately twenty
feet (or six meters, if you can't handle English units) of "no-man's land" dead
space which security personnel keep clear of fans, just in case.  (And, by the
way, if they're running a meter out from the wall down the straight, they're
running a rather conservative line...)

As for the last sentence... I'm not even touching this one.

RM