rec.autos.simulators

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

Doomsday Machin

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Doomsday Machin » Fri, 02 May 2008 05:37:42

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG

What are we talking about?

Many helpful Links and Video links at end of post.

http://lhcconcerns.com/

In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The Large
Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17 miles
will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The principal
behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest elements
of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
Electrons, and Protons discovered.

The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
"Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
(specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the average
person, at near c( .99999999 % the speed of light).

To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two beams
will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV. Although
such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space, this
will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other possibilities
that could arise.

Why haven't I heard about this before?

Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a lot
more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of interest,
or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of understanding
something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful scientific
Expirement of al time.

Why We're Concerned

To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator in
history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger and
More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction of
the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH Production,
Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as relevant
possibilities.

So, what's different this time?

This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for these
scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a total
combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies generated
by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality, in
fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here is
an excerpt from Safety at the LHC

"If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC are
harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it vanishes.
If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only way
they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their decay."
We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next section.

So, what's the problem?

In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer Published
a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)

In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community such
as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced, which
do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
previously thought.

The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately references
Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be incorrect
then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential rate.

Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create Black
Holes on Purpose?

Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish to
usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies in
Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in fact
not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.

Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?

Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton beam
is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in each
beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no collision
would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative sense
any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest, or
to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.

At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain a
rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct center
of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly

Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
"Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black Holes?

It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem with
representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified as
None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not be
occurring in the first place.

The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a very
unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000 protons
for the collisions, but exposing them to temperatures colder than space as
well (1.9 K or -271 C). These types of collisions in a sense are unnatural
because collisions at those speeds and temperature would never happen,
meaning at the point of activation, no one will truly know these results
until they occur, in a matter of Femtoseconds we would be placing the entire
world in potential Danger. I've seen many websites calculate
possiblity/problem or a percentage of risk, however without many of these
theories as proof, there is no accurate way to calcuate them, So although
the risk potential is unknown, the risk can never be calculated at zero.

Although the credence given Strange Matter production, and it's subsequent
catalytic behavior by the scientific community is not always mutual. Certain
types of Strange Matter could be formed that would catalytically convert all
matter that it touches into strange matter as well, although this is not as
likely as creating a Black Hole, it's worth mentioning because it is a
possibility.

I want to learn more, where can I go?

The internet is a good place, it brought you here, didn't it? Of course you
could always visit the links on the site, and take part in our discussion on
the forum, I would recommend familiarizing yourself with all the issues, and
a basic ...

read more »

Bob Simpso

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Bob Simpso » Fri, 02 May 2008 06:26:31


Go to Hell.  You're an alarmist getting your rocks off (if you have
any) scaring people with piles of total bullshit.
AC

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by AC » Fri, 02 May 2008 06:37:52

"Doomsday Machine" <seeli...@article.com> wrote in message

news:qM4Sj.232108$pM4.116624@pd7urf1no...
> French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

> French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG

> What are we talking about?

> Many helpful Links and Video links at end of post.

> http://lhcconcerns.com/

> In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The
> Large
> Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
> the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17
> miles
> will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The principal
> behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest elements
> of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
> further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
> thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
> Electrons, and Protons discovered.

> The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
> "Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
> Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
> believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
> observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
> (specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the
> average
> person, at near c( .99999999 % the speed of light).

> To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two beams
> will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
> roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
> 1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV.
> Although
> such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space,
> this
> will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
> Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other
> possibilities
> that could arise.

> Why haven't I heard about this before?

> Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
> lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
> even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a lot
> more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
> geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
> covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of interest,
> or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of
> understanding
> something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
> other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
> why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
> it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful scientific
> Expirement of al time.

> Why We're Concerned

> To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
> the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator
> in
> history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
> Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
> invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger and
> More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
> accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
> increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction
> of
> the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH
> Production,
> Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as
> relevant
> possibilities.

> So, what's different this time?

> This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
> different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
> explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for these
> scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a
> total
> combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies
> generated
> by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality,
> in
> fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here
> is
> an excerpt from Safety at the LHC

> "If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
> higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
> still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC
> are
> harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
> process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
> matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
> evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it
> vanishes.
> If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
> only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only way
> they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their decay."
> We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next section.

> So, what's the problem?

> In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
> evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
> being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
> never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
> that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
> Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer
> Published
> a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
> Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
> not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
> Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)

> In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
> theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community
> such
> as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced,
> which
> do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
> previously thought.

> The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
> safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately
> references
> Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be incorrect
> then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential rate.

> Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create
> Black
> Holes on Purpose?

> Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish to
> usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies in
> Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
> which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in
> fact
> not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
> Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
> nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.

> Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?

> Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
> addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton
> beam
> is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in
> each
> beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no collision
> would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative
> sense
> any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
> beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest, or
> to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
> velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.

> At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain a
> rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
> exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct center
> of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly

> Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
> "Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black
> Holes?

> It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem
> with
> representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified as
> None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
> zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
> prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not be
> occurring in the first place.

> The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a
> very
> unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000 protons
> for the collisions, but exposing them to temperatures colder than space as
> well (1.9 K or -271 C). These types of collisions in a sense are unnatural
> because collisions at those speeds and temperature would never happen,
> meaning at the point of activation, no one will truly know these results
> until they occur, in a matter of Femtoseconds we would be placing the
> entire
> world in potential Danger. I've seen many websites calculate
> possiblity/problem or a percentage of risk, however without many of these
> theories as proof, there is no accurate way to calcuate them, So although
> the risk potential is unknown, the risk can never be calculated at zero.

> Although the credence given Strange Matter production, and it's subsequent
> catalytic behavior by the scientific community is not always mutual.
> Certain
> types of

...

read more »

Rod's work new

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Rod's work new » Fri, 02 May 2008 06:39:06

It's actually been misreported. They've simply built a European NASCAR oval
and placed it underground so that weather won't be an issue (because NASCAR
scheduling only includes one European stop .... so weather poses a real
issue wrt costing the event). Grandstand seats will be plentiful .... but a
bitch to get to. I've also heard rumours that ventilation could be an issue.

"Doomsday Machine" <seeli...@article.com> wrote in message

news:qM4Sj.232108$pM4.116624@pd7urf1no...
> French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

> French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG

> What are we talking about?

> Many helpful Links and Video links at end of post.

> http://lhcconcerns.com/

> In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The
> Large
> Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
> the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17
> miles
> will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The principal
> behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest elements
> of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
> further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
> thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
> Electrons, and Protons discovered.

> The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
> "Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
> Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
> believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
> observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
> (specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the
> average
> person, at near c( .99999999 % the speed of light).

> To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two beams
> will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
> roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
> 1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV.
> Although
> such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space,
> this
> will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
> Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other
> possibilities
> that could arise.

> Why haven't I heard about this before?

> Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
> lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
> even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a lot
> more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
> geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
> covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of interest,
> or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of
> understanding
> something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
> other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
> why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
> it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful scientific
> Expirement of al time.

> Why We're Concerned

> To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
> the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator
> in
> history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
> Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
> invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger and
> More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
> accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
> increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction
> of
> the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH
> Production,
> Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as
> relevant
> possibilities.

> So, what's different this time?

> This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
> different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
> explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for these
> scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a
> total
> combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies
> generated
> by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality,
> in
> fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here
> is
> an excerpt from Safety at the LHC

> "If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
> higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
> still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC
> are
> harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
> process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
> matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
> evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it
> vanishes.
> If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
> only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only way
> they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their decay."
> We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next section.

> So, what's the problem?

> In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
> evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
> being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
> never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
> that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
> Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer
> Published
> a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
> Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
> not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
> Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)

> In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
> theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community
> such
> as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced,
> which
> do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
> previously thought.

> The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
> safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately
> references
> Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be incorrect
> then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential rate.

> Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create
> Black
> Holes on Purpose?

> Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish to
> usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies in
> Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
> which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in
> fact
> not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
> Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
> nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.

> Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?

> Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
> addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton
> beam
> is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in
> each
> beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no collision
> would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative
> sense
> any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
> beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest, or
> to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
> velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.

> At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain a
> rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
> exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct center
> of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly

> Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
> "Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black
> Holes?

> It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem
> with
> representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified as
> None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
> zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
> prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not be
> occurring in the first place.

> The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a
> very
> unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000 protons
> for the collisions, but exposing them to temperatures colder than space as
> well (1.9 K or -271 C). These types of collisions in a sense are unnatural
> because collisions at those speeds and temperature would never happen,
> meaning at the point of activation, no one will truly know these results
> until they occur, in a matter of Femtoseconds we would be placing the
> entire
> world in potential Danger. I've seen many websites calculate
> possiblity/problem or

...

read more »

Halmyr

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Halmyr » Fri, 02 May 2008 06:42:10




> > I want to learn more, where can I go?

> Go to Hell.  You're an alarmist getting your rocks off (if you have
> any) scaring people with piles of total bullshit.

Who's scared?

--
Halmyre

That's you that is.

News

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by News » Fri, 02 May 2008 07:13:22




>>French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
>>Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

> But what does it all mean, Basil?

> AC

Move along now.

This was covered in the FIA inquiry into the 487 stolen pages of A4.

Frit

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Frit » Fri, 02 May 2008 08:08:54

Which sim (66 mod??) u talking about?

"Doomsday Machine" <seeli...@article.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:qM4Sj.232108$pM4.116624@pd7urf1no...

> French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

> French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
> Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG

> What are we talking about?

> Many helpful Links and Video links at end of post.

> http://lhcconcerns.com/

> In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The
> Large
> Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
> the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17
> miles
> will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The principal
> behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest elements
> of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
> further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
> thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
> Electrons, and Protons discovered.

> The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
> "Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
> Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
> believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
> observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
> (specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the
> average
> person, at near c( .99999999 % the speed of light).

> To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two beams
> will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
> roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
> 1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV.
> Although
> such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space,
> this
> will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
> Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other
> possibilities
> that could arise.

> Why haven't I heard about this before?

> Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
> lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
> even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a lot
> more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
> geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
> covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of interest,
> or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of
> understanding
> something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
> other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
> why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
> it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful scientific
> Expirement of al time.

> Why We're Concerned

> To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
> the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator
> in
> history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
> Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
> invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger and
> More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
> accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
> increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction
> of
> the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH
> Production,
> Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as
> relevant
> possibilities.

> So, what's different this time?

> This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
> different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
> explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for these
> scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a
> total
> combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies
> generated
> by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality,
> in
> fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here
> is
> an excerpt from Safety at the LHC

> "If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
> higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
> still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC
> are
> harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
> process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
> matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
> evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it
> vanishes.
> If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
> only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only way
> they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their decay."
> We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next section.

> So, what's the problem?

> In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
> evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
> being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
> never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
> that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
> Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer
> Published
> a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
> Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
> not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
> Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)

> In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
> theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community
> such
> as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced,
> which
> do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
> previously thought.

> The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
> safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately
> references
> Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be incorrect
> then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential rate.

> Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create
> Black
> Holes on Purpose?

> Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish to
> usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies in
> Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
> which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in
> fact
> not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
> Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
> nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.

> Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?

> Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
> addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton
> beam
> is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in
> each
> beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no collision
> would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative
> sense
> any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
> beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest, or
> to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
> velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.

> At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain a
> rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
> exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct center
> of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly

> Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
> "Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black
> Holes?

> It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem
> with
> representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified as
> None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
> zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
> prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not be
> occurring in the first place.

> The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a
> very
> unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000 protons
> for the collisions, but exposing them to temperatures colder than space as
> well (1.9 K or -271 C). These types of collisions in a sense are unnatural
> because collisions at those speeds and temperature would never happen,
> meaning at the point of activation, no one will truly know these results
> until they occur, in a matter of Femtoseconds we would be placing the
> entire
> world in potential Danger. I've seen many websites calculate
> possiblity/problem or a percentage of risk, however without many of these
> theories as proof, there is no accurate way to calcuate them, So although
> the risk potential is unknown, the risk can never be calculated at zero.

> Although the credence given Strange Matter production, and it's subsequent
> catalytic behavior by the scientific community is not

...

read more »

Raoul Duk

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Raoul Duk » Fri, 02 May 2008 08:48:58






>> > I want to learn more, where can I go?

>> Go to Hell.  You're an alarmist getting your rocks off (if you have
>> any) scaring people with piles of total bullshit.

>Who's scared?

No kidding, I had a full body laugh going.

--
"Holy Jesus!  What are these goddamn animals?"

Byron Forbe

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Byron Forbe » Fri, 02 May 2008 09:01:56

    Awe come on - that was good stuff!

    The basic point is this - you will get super densities (which they are
calling micro black holes) produced by making protons have head on
collisions with a relative speed of twice the speed of light. If the gravity
produced was strong enough and enough of these micro black holes occured
close enough to each other then they could become a black hole proper.

    So what you say? Well then the entire planet collapses in on itself in
an instant. Don't worry - you won't see it coming or feel a thing! :)



>> I want to learn more, where can I go?

> Go to Hell.  You're an alarmist getting your rocks off (if you have
> any) scaring people with piles of total bullshit.

Byron Forbe

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Byron Forbe » Fri, 02 May 2008 09:02:56

    Yeah, if there has never been a micro black hole generated by some of
those NASCAR collisions then nothing could ever generate one!

"Rod's work news" <rod.graml...@ualberta.ca> wrote in message
news:fvaopv$eto$1@tabloid.srv.ualberta.ca...

> It's actually been misreported. They've simply built a European NASCAR
> oval and placed it underground so that weather won't be an issue (because
> NASCAR scheduling only includes one European stop .... so weather poses a
> real issue wrt costing the event). Grandstand seats will be plentiful ....
> but a bitch to get to. I've also heard rumours that ventilation could be
> an issue.

> "Doomsday Machine" <seeli...@article.com> wrote in message
> news:qM4Sj.232108$pM4.116624@pd7urf1no...
>> French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
>> Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

>> French Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator)
>> Old Dying Physicists want to go out with a BIG BANG

>> What are we talking about?

>> Many helpful Links and Video links at end of post.

>> http://lhcconcerns.com/

>> In May of 2008 the largest, most expensive scientific experiment, The
>> Large
>> Hadron Collider will be completed. This mechanical behemoth located along
>> the French and Swiss border with a total estimated circumference of 17
>> miles
>> will be the most powerful particle accelerator in existence. The
>> principal
>> behind a particle accelerator is that by speeding up the smallest
>> elements
>> of matter and then colliding them together that they can be broken down
>> further into even smaller fundamental particles, just as Atoms were once
>> thought to be the smallest units, so then were Quarks(Up and Down),
>> Electrons, and Protons discovered.

>> The Large Hadron Collide is hoped to discover what is referred to as the
>> "Higgs Boson". Although a theoretical scalar particle theorized by Peter
>> Higgs in 1974, it is actually a member of the standard model, and it is
>> believed that the Higgs Boson is what gives matter "mass". To achieve the
>> observation of the Higgs Boson, the LHC will be smashing these Hadrons
>> (specifically Protons) together at speeds almost unimaginable to the
>> average
>> person, at near c( .99999999 % the speed of light).

>> To quantify the types of collisions, it must be pointed out that two
>> beams
>> will be set to collide with each other, each beam of protons contains
>> roughly 2,800 Protons with an energy of 7 TeV (1 Teraelectron Volt =
>> 1.60217646 x 10-7 joules) so the combined energies will be 14 TeV.
>> Although
>> such energies in collisions are certainly occurring every day in space,
>> this
>> will be the first time that energies such as these will be observed on
>> Earth, however what is alarming to us are the myriad of other
>> possibilities
>> that could arise.

>> Why haven't I heard about this before?

>> Honestly, this is a good question, I seem to come accross this response a
>> lot, it seems that in general most people have never heard of the LHC, or
>> even particle acclerators in general, I am aware that there has been a
>> lot
>> more coverage of this in the UK then the America's (probably due to it's
>> geographical location), but also I suppose the main reason why it is not
>> covered that often in the states is because of a general lack of
>> interest,
>> or the belief that the general public is probably incapable of
>> understanding
>> something so complex. Still however there are several Documentaries and
>> other programs/magazines that have covered the LHC, so I'm not fully sure
>> why some people have not heard about this as from a financial perspective
>> it's the most expsenive (8.2 Billion Dollars) and most powerful
>> scientific
>> Expirement of al time.

>> Why We're Concerned

>> To explain the concern thoroughly and accurately it has to be stated that
>> the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is not the first particle accelerator
>> in
>> history. In 1929 the Cyclotron, invented and developed by Ernest O.
>> Lawrence, was the first particle accelerator, and from that initial
>> invention over several decades we have come into a new breed of Larger
>> and
>> More Powerful Particle Accelerators. Although we have had particle
>> accelerators in the past, The luminosity at which these operate has
>> increased dramatically, in fact it is true that prior to the construction
>> of
>> the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) such theories as MBH
>> Production,
>> Strangelets, and several other theories were placed on the table as
>> relevant
>> possibilities.

>> So, what's different this time?

>> This is the point that has to be emphasized, this time things are quite
>> different, a study was conducted after initial concerns for the RHIC were
>> explored, and to their conclusion the amount of energy necessary for
>> these
>> scenarios was not sufficient. The Large Hadron Collider operates at a
>> total
>> combined energy of 14TeV, which is a lot higher than the energies
>> generated
>> by the RHIC, as such the possibility of Black Hole creation is a reality,
>> in
>> fact on CERN's own web site they admit it could create Black Holes, here
>> is
>> an excerpt from Safety at the LHC

>> "If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much
>> higher energies would already have produced many more. Since the Earth is
>> still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC
>> are
>> harmful. Black holes lose matter through the emission of energy via a
>> process discovered by Stephen Hawking. Any black hole that cannot attract
>> matter, such as those that might be produced at the LHC, will shrink,
>> evaporate and disappear. The smaller the black hole, the faster it
>> vanishes.
>> If microscopic black holes were to be found at the LHC, they would exist
>> only for a fleeting moment. They would be so short-lived that the only
>> way
>> they could be detected would be by detecting the products of their
>> decay."
>> We'll cover the theoretical problem of this statement in the next
>> section.

>> So, what's the problem?

>> In theory (according to Hawking Radiation) any Black Hole created would
>> evaporate in Femtoseconds, not having the chance to accrete any mass, and
>> being essentially harmless, although this is comforting in theory, It has
>> never been proven, and in fact has been questioned before. The problem is
>> that although most people in the physics community believe in Hawkings
>> Radiation, it has no basis in observation. In 2003 Adam D. Helfer
>> Published
>> a paper concerning Hawking's Radiation coming to the conclusion that
>> Hawking's Radiation may in fact be incorrect, and that a Black Hole would
>> not lose mass in such a way. (For the full text of this document go here
>> Paper By Adam D. Helfer on Hawking Radiation.)

>> In fact since the LHC has been on the drawing board several studies and
>> theories which have gained a lot of support in the scientific community
>> such
>> as "String Theory" and "Extra-Large Hidden Dimensions" have surfaced,
>> which
>> do indeed place the threshold for Black Hole Creation much lower than
>> previously thought.

>> The main problem lies in believing in theory as fact, every argument for
>> safety made concerning Black Holes and thier creation immediately
>> references
>> Hawking Radiation, however, if Hawking Radiation turns out to be
>> incorrect
>> then the Black Hole would continue to accrete mass at an exponential
>> rate.

>> Now Hold on, No one would willingly create a machine that would create
>> Black
>> Holes on Purpose?

>> Of course not, I highly doubt the thousands of scientists involved wish
>> to
>> usher in Oblivion any quicker than politicians, however the danger lies
>> in
>> Theory being accepted as Fact, Adam D. Helfer Published a paper recently
>> which outlines a very strong possibility that Hawkings Radiation may in
>> fact
>> not exist, which would actually fit in better with the Laws of
>> Thermodynamics, at which Our current explanation and understanding of the
>> nature of Black Holes has always been somewhat at Odds.

>> Alright, so if a Black Hole created doesn't evaporate, what next?

>> Here is another place that CERN's safety assessment is incapable of
>> addressing, although these extremely high energy collisions each Proton
>> beam
>> is in fact coming from opposite directions, Over 2 thousand Protons in
>> each
>> beam will pretty much collide roughly in the middle, although no
>> collision
>> would create a particle exactly dead center, or "still", in a relative
>> sense
>> any MBH or fundamental particle created in such a manner (even with both
>> beams at a speed of .99999999 c) would be in a relative sense, at Rest,
>> or
>> to elaborate the term at rest we mean lower than the necessary escape
>> velocity to escape the Earth's own gravitational pull.

>> At that point two hypothetical scenarios exist. It would either maintain
>> a
>> rather low orbit within our planet itself, slowly accreting mass at an
>> exponential rate, or it's possible it may "gravitate" to the direct
>> center
>> of the planet in which case would accrete mass very quickly

>> Wait a second, I've also heard of other dangers like "Strange Matter",
>> "Bubble Nucleation", and "Magnetic Monopoles", why the focus on Black
>> Holes?

>> It is true that these scenarios are also possible, however the problem
>> with
>> representing them accurately is the true danger can never be quantified
>> as
>> None of these have been observed, however that does not mean the risk is
>> zero. The very fact that this experiment is called an experiment is the
>> prove a hypothesis, if the results were truly known then this would not
>> be
>> occurring in the first place.

>> The Large Hadron Collider is going to be forcing Protons together in a
>> very
>> unnatural way, not only forcing them into groups of roughly 3,000

...

read more »

Frank Ada

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Frank Ada » Fri, 02 May 2008 11:45:13

On Thu, 1 May 2008 10:01:56 +1000, "Byron Forbes"


>    Awe come on - that was good stuff!

>    The basic point is this - you will get super densities (which they are
>calling micro black holes) produced by making protons have head on
>collisions with a relative speed of twice the speed of light. If the gravity
>produced was strong enough and enough of these micro black holes occured
>close enough to each other then they could become a black hole proper.

>    So what you say? Well then the entire planet collapses in on itself in
>an instant. Don't worry - you won't see it coming or feel a thing! :)

Crap, the Greens will be pissed. Black is almost impossible to keep
clean. ;-)

--

Regards, Frank

Genera

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Genera » Fri, 02 May 2008 13:29:43


So the chances of them finding what they are looking for are practially
ZERO.

But the chances of something bad happening are NOT but zero but darn close.

Good investment..

Depresio

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Depresio » Fri, 02 May 2008 16:06:05


> On Thu, 1 May 2008 10:01:56 +1000, "Byron Forbes"

>>    Awe come on - that was good stuff!

>>    The basic point is this - you will get super densities (which they are
>>calling micro black holes) produced by making protons have head on
>>collisions with a relative speed of twice the speed of light. If the
>>gravity
>>produced was strong enough and enough of these micro black holes occured
>>close enough to each other then they could become a black hole proper.

>>    So what you say? Well then the entire planet collapses in on itself in
>>an instant. Don't worry - you won't see it coming or feel a thing! :)

> Crap, the Greens will be pissed. Black is almost impossible to keep
> clean. ;-)

Most planets of our class destroy them selves not by war but by compressing
the entire planet to the size of a pea looking for the Higgs Boson.
emuLOA

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by emuLOA » Fri, 02 May 2008 16:13:45




> > On Thu, 1 May 2008 10:01:56 +1000, "Byron Forbes"

> >> ? ?Awe come on - that was good stuff!

> >> ? ?The basic point is this - you will get super densities (which they are
> >>calling micro black holes) produced by making protons have head on
> >>collisions with a relative speed of twice the speed of light. If the
> >>gravity
> >>produced was strong enough and enough of these micro black holes occured
> >>close enough to each other then they could become a black hole proper.

> >> ? ?So what you say? Well then the entire planet collapses in on itself in
> >>an instant. Don't worry - you won't see it coming or feel a thing! :)

> > Crap, the Greens will be pissed. Black is almost impossible to keep
> > clean. ;-)

> Most planets of our class destroy them selves not by war but by compressing
> the entire planet to the size of a pea looking for the Higgs Boson.- Nascondi testo tra virgolette -

> - Mostra testo tra virgolette -

I'll beleave that the CERN large hardon collider poses relevant risks
on humanity when I see it go all wrong with my eyes...

so eitherway, never :P

Bigbir

French And CERN Build Massive Particle Accelerator (Black Hole Generator) Unknown Planetary Risk To Create BIG BANG

by Bigbir » Fri, 02 May 2008 16:16:16




> > In article




> >> > I want to learn more, where can I go?

> >> Go to Hell.  You're an alarmist getting your rocks off (if you have
> >> any) scaring people with piles of total bullshit.

> > Who's scared?

> No kidding, I had a full body laugh going.

Now *that* would scare me if I was within 50 miles.

--
Pitwall is an online F1 manager game where you receive a team and need
to develop the team to get on the top podium position! Pitwall is
entirely free! No sh*t!
http://tinyurl.com/5y6ls3


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