rec.autos.simulators

by **Andre** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 02:02:07

Larry

You helped fix a few probs i have had over the last few months so i am
chheky enough to ask if you can help in this matter :)

Parents had stable Win 98SE machine but after seeing my brothers XP HE
machine wanted to upgrade.

So we formatted and installed XP HE.

Added their apps and programs and went home leaving them enjoying the new
set up.

They switched off for the night and went bed.

Next day they tried to start the machine and it didnt respond,they tried
everything and it wasn't until a swap of wall socket that it fired up.

Dodgy wall socket you might say...!!

To cut a long story very short,this has been going on for 2 weeks,i visit
switch switches,change sockets etc etc and then suddenly it fires up....runs
sweetly until switched off .

1st thing i noticed is that it dont just switch off as it used to,it needs
the off button to be held for 3/4 secs...weird.

So i just got a phone call from my parents and the neighbour(Electrician/PC
DIYman) said he suspects a worm is the problem.

My initial suspicion is power supply.

My second thought was is it just a coincidence that this all started after
XP installation..??

Any ideas,clues,directions to take on this matter would be very much
appreciated.

Andy

by **Schoone** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 02:09:12

Had same problem before, it was the power supply.

neighbour(Electrician/PC

- Show quoted text -

by **Plowbo** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 02:56:35

Andrew,
make sure "shut down computer" actually is doing the shutdown instead
of hibernate. or standby. Mine will go into hibernate, but wont come back.
I have to hold the button, or like you said interrupt the power some way,
usually powerstrip. there is a setting somewhere in XP but my brain is
fried.

Unfortunately though, I cant troubleshoot this problem for you as I have had
a complete and utter dislodging of my brain's memory for the last 4 weeks
(personal problems stress and what-not) but www.tweakxp.com might be a good
place to look for this problem and how to troubleshoot it?

--Plowboy

Good luck bud

neighbour(Electrician/PC

- Show quoted text -

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 05:23:33

If it needs the off button held for 3 or 4 secs, it could be a BIOS option.
I don't know which motherboard or bios they're running, but most of them
have an option (check all the menus) to have the power button shut off
immediately or have it held for 4 secs. I suspect that this changed
somewhere along the line. Possibly when the wall socket lost power the bios
settings went to default.

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

neighbour(Electrician/PC

- Show quoted text -

by **Mike Beaucham** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:59:11

Hmm.. maybe it's the power cord itself? Then, you moving it to different
sockets is just jiggling the cord around until the short in the cord makes
contact? I'd try a different cord, then I'd try a different power supply.
It's definately not a "worm" or a virus that I know of.

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

neighbour(Electrician/PC

- Show quoted text -

by **Andre** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:49:17

Power supply or power cord does seem favourite so far...

The XP fresh install might lead to BIOS problem..?

I feel so guilty because they had the PC 2 years never a thing went
wrong,and now all this and of course being older generation they are
saying.."Well it was alright until that XP thing went on"

Swapping a power supply is new ground and if it isnt that i will be gutted
..LOL

Many thanks guys

Andy

by **blorc** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:23:08

Dont swap power supplies or cords or any of that. It isnt a hardware
problem.

There is a setting in the BIOS of most ATX form factor motherboards that
allows you to set the on/off switch to either shut down immediately or have
to hold the switch for 4 seconds to shut down. You can also often dictate
the "state" to which you wish your computer to go when this button is
pushed/held.

Another thing to remember about ATX motherboards is that you should NOT
completely shut off power to them via a wall switch or power strip. They
are designed to have power all the time and killing the power for a while
can reset the BIOS to defaults. In some annoying cases it can even clean
out the CMOS and your computer will "forget" what drives are attached to it
if they aren't correctly auto-detected during bootup.

XP, upon installation, will also detect power management things in the BIOS
that may have not been implemented in Win98 or may have been previously
disabled or poorly supported (like ACPI). Since XP is designed to be an
'always on' OS, it makes the most of any power management stuff it can
extract from the hardware and generally does a better job than any previous
windows OS, except for Win2k, which is mostly what it is anyway.

Check out this URL for a little more info on the APM deal:

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article07-044

your entire "problem" is a matter of power management settings. Check them
out in the BIOS and then check the power settings in Control Panel. You
might also search for the term 'acpi' from the "help and support" menu item
in XPHE

HTH

neighbour(Electrician/PC

- Show quoted text -

by **Mike Beaucham** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:13:15

That's a good call.. I thought all of that was already looked at. Plus,
wouldn't all those power management settings have made Win98SE also not work
in the exact same manner as XP?

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

> Dont swap power supplies or cords or any of that. It isnt a hardware
> problem.

> There is a setting in the BIOS of most ATX form factor motherboards that
> allows you to set the on/off switch to either shut down immediately or
have
> to hold the switch for 4 seconds to shut down. You can also often dictate
> the "state" to which you wish your computer to go when this button is
> pushed/held.

> Another thing to remember about ATX motherboards is that you should NOT
> completely shut off power to them via a wall switch or power strip. They
> are designed to have power all the time and killing the power for a while
> can reset the BIOS to defaults. In some annoying cases it can even clean
> out the CMOS and your computer will "forget" what drives are attached to
it
> if they aren't correctly auto-detected during bootup.

> XP, upon installation, will also detect power management things in the
BIOS
> that may have not been implemented in Win98 or may have been previously
> disabled or poorly supported (like ACPI). Since XP is designed to be an
> 'always on' OS, it makes the most of any power management stuff it can
> extract from the hardware and generally does a better job than any
previous
> windows OS, except for Win2k, which is mostly what it is anyway.

> Check out this URL for a little more info on the APM deal:

> http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article07-044

> your entire "problem" is a matter of power management settings. Check
them
> out in the BIOS and then check the power settings in Control Panel. You
> might also search for the term 'acpi' from the "help and support" menu
item
> in XPHE

> HTH

> > Larry

> > You helped fix a few probs i have had over the last few months so i am
> > chheky enough to ask if you can help in this matter :)

> > Parents had stable Win 98SE machine but after seeing my brothers XP HE
> > machine wanted to upgrade.

> > So we formatted and installed XP HE.

> > Added their apps and programs and went home leaving them enjoying the
new
> > set up.

> > They switched off for the night and went bed.

> > Next day they tried to start the machine and it didnt respond,they tried
> > everything and it wasn't until a swap of wall socket that it fired up.

> > Dodgy wall socket you might say...!!

> > To cut a long story very short,this has been going on for 2 weeks,i
visit
> > switch switches,change sockets etc etc and then suddenly it fires
> up....runs
> > sweetly until switched off .

> > 1st thing i noticed is that it dont just switch off as it used to,it
needs
> > the off button to be held for 3/4 secs...weird.

> > So i just got a phone call from my parents and the
> neighbour(Electrician/PC
> > DIYman) said he suspects a worm is the problem.

> > My initial suspicion is power supply.

> > My second thought was is it just a coincidence that this all started
after
> > XP installation..??

> > Any ideas,clues,directions to take on this matter would be very much
> > appreciated.

> > Andy

by **ikste** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:20:50

<snip>

Must be thinking of a ***motherboard. Most
mobos these days have a small lithium-ion
battery which maintains the contents of BIOS.

WORSE! is NOT unplugging power when replacing
cards or RAM - you can destroy parts this way
especially AGP cards with the double row of
contacts.

iksteh

by **blorc** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:53:23

Win98SE didnt do ACPI very well. The motherboard probably has capabilities
that Win98 was not able to completely deal with. Plus that first iteration
of ACPI was kind of a half-assed thing that worked when it wanted to,
anyways. What I mean to say is that XP can probably do more with the
hardware than 98 could, so it might not be exactly the same outcome.

You get extra layers of BS because WIndows is supposed to override all the
BIOS power management settings and use its own stuff, but it would sometimes
turn to a wrestling match. I always kill everything power-related in the
BIOS and let Windows do its thing. Back in the 98/se days it was hit or
miss, ME was alittle better but ACPI seemed to be hogging up too many
resources and you couldn't make it go away without reinstalling the OS,
finally with 2k/XP there seems to have been some harmony acheived.

> Mike
> http://mikebeauchamp.com

> > Dont swap power supplies or cords or any of that. It isnt a hardware
> > problem.

> > There is a setting in the BIOS of most ATX form factor motherboards
that
> > allows you to set the on/off switch to either shut down immediately or
> have
> > to hold the switch for 4 seconds to shut down. You can also often
dictate
> > the "state" to which you wish your computer to go when this button is
> > pushed/held.

> > Another thing to remember about ATX motherboards is that you should NOT
> > completely shut off power to them via a wall switch or power strip.
They
> > are designed to have power all the time and killing the power for a
while
> > can reset the BIOS to defaults. In some annoying cases it can even
clean
> > out the CMOS and your computer will "forget" what drives are attached to
> it
> > if they aren't correctly auto-detected during bootup.

> > XP, upon installation, will also detect power management things in the
> BIOS
> > that may have not been implemented in Win98 or may have been previously
> > disabled or poorly supported (like ACPI). Since XP is designed to be an
> > 'always on' OS, it makes the most of any power management stuff it can
> > extract from the hardware and generally does a better job than any
> previous
> > windows OS, except for Win2k, which is mostly what it is anyway.

> > Check out this URL for a little more info on the APM deal:

> > http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article07-044

> > your entire "problem" is a matter of power management settings. Check
> them
> > out in the BIOS and then check the power settings in Control Panel. You
> > might also search for the term 'acpi' from the "help and support" menu
> item
> > in XPHE

> > HTH

> > > Larry

> > > You helped fix a few probs i have had over the last few months so i am
> > > chheky enough to ask if you can help in this matter :)

> > > Parents had stable Win 98SE machine but after seeing my brothers XP HE
> > > machine wanted to upgrade.

> > > So we formatted and installed XP HE.

> > > Added their apps and programs and went home leaving them enjoying the
> new
> > > set up.

> > > They switched off for the night and went bed.

> > > Next day they tried to start the machine and it didnt respond,they
tried
> > > everything and it wasn't until a swap of wall socket that it fired up.

> > > Dodgy wall socket you might say...!!

> > > To cut a long story very short,this has been going on for 2 weeks,i
> visit
> > > switch switches,change sockets etc etc and then suddenly it fires
> > up....runs
> > > sweetly until switched off .

> > > 1st thing i noticed is that it dont just switch off as it used to,it
> needs
> > > the off button to be held for 3/4 secs...weird.

> > > So i just got a phone call from my parents and the
> > neighbour(Electrician/PC
> > > DIYman) said he suspects a worm is the problem.

> > > My initial suspicion is power supply.

> > > My second thought was is it just a coincidence that this all started
> after
> > > XP installation..??

> > > Any ideas,clues,directions to take on this matter would be very much
> > > appreciated.

> > > Andy

by **blorc** » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:01:33

Yeah..there is plenty of ***out there. Unfortunately a lot of it is in
bread and butter consumer computers from major vendors. The same people who
have the least idea how to deal with the problems often get the worst
problems for that reason. I have had to unravel lots of them. :)

I had one guy who runs a small-medium sized business. He bought a bunch of
early ATX computers to replace his old 386sx16 stuff that was a zillion
years old. He was calling me complaining that they were defective because
you had to reconfigure them every time you rebooted. Come to discover he was
shutting down and then killing the power to the PS via power strips. I
showed his how to "fix" the problem, but he still felt they were defective
because he was risking fire by having to leave power on all the time.

Very good point about making sure the power is all gone from the mobo before
you start mucking around with the contents of the case. At the very LEAST,
you should shut off the power supply switch (not the on/off) on an ATX box.
And let us not forget having to jam cards into the slots on the board so
hard it bends the board and it grounds out on the chassis. That can be a
bad thing if there's any juice left running around in there.

by **Larr** » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:56

A couple of thoughts...

If this is an Athlon system, make SURE the Processor Fan/Heatsink didn't
come unseated in travel. It happens.

Make SURE the power-on cable is still firmly attached to the system board.

It's possible some other component came unseated in transport as well.

I think the cover needs to come off and have everything inspected
internally.

Since Windows XP isn't even involved in the stages you note, I doubt it
could be XP.

Also, did you update the BIOS? If you did, did you go back and re-set all
the settings?

-Larry

neighbour(Electrician/PC

- Show quoted text -

by **Larr** » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:57

It certainly could be, especially if it's an Athlon system.

But, changing to XP should not affect this at all.

-Larry

> Had same problem before, it was the power supply.

> > Larry

> > You helped fix a few probs i have had over the last few months so i am
> > chheky enough to ask if you can help in this matter :)

> > Parents had stable Win 98SE machine but after seeing my brothers XP HE
> > machine wanted to upgrade.

> > So we formatted and installed XP HE.

> > Added their apps and programs and went home leaving them enjoying the
new
> > set up.

> > They switched off for the night and went bed.

> > Next day they tried to start the machine and it didnt respond,they tried
> > everything and it wasn't until a swap of wall socket that it fired up.

> > Dodgy wall socket you might say...!!

> > To cut a long story very short,this has been going on for 2 weeks,i
visit
> > switch switches,change sockets etc etc and then suddenly it fires
> up....runs
> > sweetly until switched off .

> > 1st thing i noticed is that it dont just switch off as it used to,it
needs
> > the off button to be held for 3/4 secs...weird.

> > So i just got a phone call from my parents and the
> neighbour(Electrician/PC
> > DIYman) said he suspects a worm is the problem.

> > My initial suspicion is power supply.

> > My second thought was is it just a coincidence that this all started
after
> > XP installation..??

> > Any ideas,clues,directions to take on this matter would be very much
> > appreciated.

> > Andy

by **Larr** » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:10:57

No, only if you changed or updated the BIOS. XP won't change anything in
there.

-Larry

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 03:39:55

Andrew, just check the BIOS. It probably has nothing to do with XP, but a
lot to do with the fact that their wall outlet lost power. The problem
you're describing sounds exactly like what I mentioned above. I don't know
much about XP, so I don't know if it takes control of that feature.
If you have a Win9x boot disk (floppy), put it in, boot to dos and try the
power button. If you still have to hold it for 4 secs before it shut off,
it's in the BIOS.
You said it happens all the time now, having to hold the button for 3 or 4
secs. There is no way a faulty power cord or the power supply could
reproduce this consistently.

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

rec.autos.simulators

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