rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

What sound card (or game port) are you using? I read about a drifting
problem with the Saitek wheel and they have a patch available....have you
contacted Logitech?

Marc

>I have Logitech Formula (non-force feedback) wheel, that does away with all
>bouncing around of the calibration numbers I saw with my TM GP1.
>Unfortunately, I'm discovering the calibration is difficult to get centered
>(4 to 5 tries usually) and that it drifts when changing windows in GPL.
Once
>you are driving, it appears to stay where it was when you entered the car,
>but whether it is still centered like it was in the calibration window
seems
>to be a ***shoot.

>It seems something odd is going on here, and whether it is the wheels, GPL,
>or Windows is unclear. I've tried the Logitech Profiler, but I can't drive
>GPL at all with it installed. I've down loaded various centering and
>calibration utilities with no effect. The Logitech seems to have some
>electronics that smoothes out the jitters, at the expense of calibration
>stability. I'm not sure which is worse...

>Kevin Caldwell
>Calgary, Canada

>>On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:04:50 -0500, "Marc Collins"

>>>See Sam's message above...bad news!
>There is a Digital Signal Processor (DSP)
>>on th PDPI, I believe, but if it's anything like the one I built to
>>remove static from SW Radio, it just filters out the noise. The static
>>is still there, you just can't hear it. Thus stability in the
>>calibration may just "mask" what's actually going on. I don't even
>>have stable calibration since this last gyration. So, tomorrow I'll
>>try changing the steering pot. I suspect that maybe the gamecard needs
>>a "slider" to match your computer speed to the pots in the controller.

>>"Go with throttle up!" (The last words to the spaceship Challenger)
>>Sam

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I did, and an older SB 16 solved the problem completely in Windows
calibration and 90% in GPL. So it is my piece of shit SB PCI 128 that is
the main culprit.

Marc.

>I have a new P II 333 with a vortex A3D soundcard and had exactly the same
>problem when using my TM F1 wheel, (brand new, first one broke :-( ), using
>the Microsoft Sidewinder standard joystick the jittering reduced
>considerably, but was still apparent.
>Both of these controllers worked fine with my old Compaq P166mmx with
>onboard soundcard / gameport so I presume that the problem is not with the
>wheel or j/stick, or even with GPL because I also had problems in F1 RS and
>MGPRS2 where the car looked as though it was juddering down the road.
> I spoke to Thrustmaster's technical helpline in the UK and they said that
>it may be a speed issue between the PC and soundcard.
>The resistance of the pots in the thrustmaster wheel are higher than the
>Microsoft stick and the resistance also increases when turning the steering
>to the left. What I found was that the jittering got worse the further to
>the left I turned and improved to the right, so it seems as though the
>higher the resistance the longer the port takes to read it which is
probably
>causing the jittering.
>I now use a Microsoft wheel which, due to it's digital control, has
>eliminated the jittering
>I don't know of any other way of solving this problem except maybe trying
>different soundcards or gameports.

>Ian Parker

>>That makes sense... Do you have any idea what other things could cause
the
>>jittering? My system is configured perfectly with no hardware or software
>>conflicts of any kind...and I don't even have a modem in my machine!

>>Marc.

>>>Yes, I think that the pot can't report jitering values when you DON'T
even
>>move
>>>the wheel. It must be controller's fault imo.

by **Douglas Bolling** » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I had a similar problem with steering wheel "shakiness" in GPL.
After a little tinkering, I believe I have the problem solved and
maybe my solution will help some other people having similar
problems.

My system goodies:

homebrew steering wheel.

I built my own steering wheel so I could have a very good unit
without spending tons of money. Lately during GPL, however, I
noticed I was getting a ton of "noise" while playing, which shows-up
in GPL as shakey arms. I've always had a touch of noise, but never
before was it bad enough to effect my driving.

Luckily, building your own wheel has it's advantages. I dug out the
multimeter and checked the pot on the wheel. It checked-out great,
as it should have because it was a pretty good one and new. Hmmm,
my system setup didn't change at all, what could cause this problem?

My homebrew wheel is still in the late beta stage; it's about 90%
finished but cold weather and GPL itself stopped work on the unit.
Because of this, I didn't get around to installing the "stops" which
stop the wheel from turning to it's extremities. When calibrating
the wheel, I just make sure I don't turn the wheel more than a 180
degree arc. When checking the wheel with the multimeter, however, I
noticed that the pot "ran out" before this. That is to say, you
could still turn the pot, but the resistance did not get any
greater, in fact it dropped a little. This was not easily visible
from the calibration screen. I fixed this by adjusting the gearing
enough so I can get a full 180 degrees of "good" travel.

After all this tweaking, I hooked the wheel up to the computer and
recalibrated it in GPL, using the generic driver, being careful not
to overturn the wheel into the pot's dead zone. I then tried GPL
and was happy to find out that things returned to normal- very
slight tremor in the arms but not nearly what I was experiencing
before. It seems the GPL joystick driver doesn't like flat
resistance lines at the ends of the calibration loop? While I'm not
a 100% positive this is where the problem lies, the above procedure
helped me out a great deal. Obviously, most people can't adjust
their wheels like I did, but maybe you should try calibrating the
wheel while staying a little away from the stops.

I would like to try out the DirectInput driver, but Win98 doesn't
like the fact I'm skipping a pot; it wants to see 3 axes.

The next neat trick is getting the PCI 128 to work with GPL without
all those annoying pops and crackles. Took awhile, but I got that
working as well. The PCI 128 isn't that bad a card once you get
everything tweaked-out.

--
Douglas Bollinger
Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065

Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

by **Marty U'Re** » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I've been working on this problem and found one factor not mentioned in this
thread...contamination.

Using 'contact cleaner' does help reduce 'the shakes' temporarily and replacing
the steering pot may improve it. When my second steering pot got as bad as the
one that came with my TM Pro wheel after repeated use of contact cleaner, I
disassembled the original pot to find the contact surface covered in a greasy
goo. The contact surface was not worn. I wiped it clean, sprayed it with contact
cleaner, wiped it dry, reassembled it, and sprayed it again.

After extensive play in GPL the shakes have not returned and calibration shows
steady smooth action.

It appears that any foreign material on the contact surface of the steering pot
plays havoc with the game port.

Marty

> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight
> tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits in
> GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be getting
> quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a
> year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but the
> problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with the
> original pot.

> What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, too?
> The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in the
> last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo
> II.

> Thanks,

> Marc.

> --
> ****************************************************************************
> Marc Collins

> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---"
> General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864
> ****************************************************************************

by **William Yowel** » Thu, 21 Jan 1999 04:00:00

> >>> I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new
> >steering
> >>> wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm
> >>> considering.

Sam, I mentioned this before, did you adjust the
Options/Controls/Steering Linearity slider to the right, to the
"non-linear" side. This is contrary to which seems to work for most, but
works better for me with the PDPI TSW combination.
Bill Yowell
Remove "NOSPAM" to reply

by **KCDC** » Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I'm using a SB Awe 64. It never drifted like this with the TM GP1. I have
not contacted Logitech, but I did down load their latest drivers.

I'm not sure what their Profiler does that makes it so difficult to stay on
the track. I tried all the settings, but things improved markedly when I got
rid of it. I've also heard this from at lest two other Logitech owners
since.

Kevin

>What sound card (or game port) are you using? I read about a drifting
>problem with the Saitek wheel and they have a patch available....have you
>contacted Logitech?

>Marc

>>I have Logitech Formula (non-force feedback) wheel, that does away with
all
>>bouncing around of the calibration numbers I saw with my TM GP1.
>>Unfortunately, I'm discovering the calibration is difficult to get
centered
>>(4 to 5 tries usually) and that it drifts when changing windows in GPL.

by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Interesting...mine was covered in "goo", too.

Marc.

>I've been working on this problem and found one factor not mentioned in
this
>thread...contamination.

>Using 'contact cleaner' does help reduce 'the shakes' temporarily and
replacing
>the steering pot may improve it. When my second steering pot got as bad as
the
>one that came with my TM Pro wheel after repeated use of contact cleaner, I
>disassembled the original pot to find the contact surface covered in a
greasy
>goo. The contact surface was not worn. I wiped it clean, sprayed it with
contact
>cleaner, wiped it dry, reassembled it, and sprayed it again.

>After extensive play in GPL the shakes have not returned and calibration
shows
>steady smooth action.

>It appears that any foreign material on the contact surface of the steering
pot
>plays havoc with the game port.

>Marty

>> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight
>> tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits
in
>> GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be
getting
>> quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a
>> year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but
the
>> problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with
the
>> original pot.

>> What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad,
too?
>> The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in
the
>> last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo
>> II.

>> Thanks,

>> Marc.

>> --

****************************************************************************

>> Marc Collins

>> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---"
>> General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Sam Seni** » Sun, 24 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>>> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight
>>> tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits
>in
>>> GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be
>getting
>>> quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a
>>> year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but
>the
>>> problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with
>the
>>> original pot.

>>> What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad,
>too?
>>> The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in
>the
>>> last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo
>>> II.

>>> Thanks,

>>> Marc.

I dumped most of the shakes and regained control of the cars (with
very helpful suggestions from W.Yowell and T. Quick) by calibrating in
Generic rather than Direct and moving Linearity slider 2/3 right. My
machine is PII 400, Monster2, 128RAM, PDPI L4 Gamecard, TSW GT
contoller. I think my pots are 100K. I don't know what "Generic "
means, but it seems to work. Under Direct I was getting control spikes
and mega-shaking. If anyone can explain any of this to me, I am
*** on your every word!
"Go with throttle-up!"
Sam

by **Wolfgang Prei** » Sun, 24 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>I dumped most of the shakes and regained control of the cars (with
>very helpful suggestions from W.Yowell and T. Quick) by calibrating in
>Generic rather than Direct and moving Linearity slider 2/3 right. My
>machine is PII 400, Monster2, 128RAM, PDPI L4 Gamecard, TSW GT
>contoller. I think my pots are 100K. I don't know what "Generic "
>means, but it seems to work.

"Generic" is something of a misnomer here, IMO. It is the
Papyrus-specific joystick driver which reads the gameport directly. It
usually works great with standard joystick-type devices (up to four
axis and four buttons, standard pots), but does not work with input
devices that require special drivers or use a different technology
(i.e. MS joysticks and wheels with "optical pots").

The biggest benefit of the "generic" driver is its greater range of
input values. IIRC, the "direct" driver goes from -1000 to 1000 on a
given axis, while the "generic" goes from -5000 to 5000, or
thereabouts. The "direct" driver uses Win9x DirectX interface and has
no problems with MS wheels etc., though.

I don't claim to understand the shaking issue. As it seems, many
things play a role in this problem, among them Win9x, the
wheel/joystick hardware and probably even signal problems on the
ISA/PCI busses.

I can explain why moving the linearity slider more in the direction of
"non-linear" helps, though. If your pot gives slightly erroneous
readings around the center, say -10 to 10 without moving it, it is
possible that this is translated into visible steering wheel motion
when the slider is on the fully linear position. Once you go to a less
linear setting, the sensitivity of the wheel around the center
decreases and the program will ignore those slight variations.

--
Wolfgang Preiss \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 24 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Generic vs. Direct makes no difference on my machine and no, I cannot move
to non-linear (read dull and unrealistic) steering even if that did fix the
problem. Of course, it wouldn't fix the problem, it would just dull it at
wheel centre positions--the jittering would still be there when I turned the
wheel to one side or the other. If you understand how the non-linear
steering system works, you'll get why this is the case. If you want me to
explain more, just ask.

Thanks for your attempt to help,

Marc.

>>>> My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a
slight
>>>> tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits
>>in
>>>> GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be
>>getting
>>>> quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half
a
>>>> year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but
>>the
>>>> problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with
>>the
>>>> original pot.

>>>> What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad,
>>too?
>>>> The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in
>>the
>>>> last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a
Voodoo
>>>> II.

>>>> Thanks,

>>>> Marc.

>I dumped most of the shakes and regained control of the cars (with
>very helpful suggestions from W.Yowell and T. Quick) by calibrating in
>Generic rather than Direct and moving Linearity slider 2/3 right. My
>machine is PII 400, Monster2, 128RAM, PDPI L4 Gamecard, TSW GT
>contoller. I think my pots are 100K. I don't know what "Generic "
>means, but it seems to work. Under Direct I was getting control spikes
>and mega-shaking. If anyone can explain any of this to me, I am
>hanging on your every word!
>"Go with throttle-up!"
>Sam

by **Sam Seni** » Sun, 24 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:08:08 -0500, "Marc Collins"

>Generic vs. Direct makes no difference on my machine and no, I cannot move
>to non-linear (read dull and unrealistic) steering even if that did fix the
>problem. Of course, it wouldn't fix the problem, it would just dull it at
>wheel centre positions--the jittering would still be there when I turned the
>wheel to one side or the other. If you understand how the non-linear
>steering system works, you'll get why this is the case. If you want me to
>explain more, just ask.

>Thanks for your attempt to help,

>Marc.

Thanks for the info, folks, it does help. But what about the PDPI
gamecard? Am I passing it up by using Generic, then? I'm trying to
determine if I should keep it. Using Generic is kind of a pain as I
have to re-calibrate every time I power up.
Sam

by **Douglas Bolling** » Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Why do you have to recalibrate when you use the generic driver? I
use it exclusively, and never have this problem.

The only time a forced recalibration screen pops up is when I forget
to plug in the wheel before starting GPL or leave plugged in a
gamepad or other joystick.

--
Douglas Bollinger
Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065

A witty saying proves nothing. -- Voltaire

by **Sam Seni** » Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>> Thanks for the info, folks, it does help. But what about the PDPI
>> gamecard? Am I passing it up by using Generic, then? I'm trying to
>> determine if I should keep it. Using Generic is kind of a pain as I
>> have to re-calibrate every time I power up.
>> Sam

>Why do you have to recalibrate when you use the generic driver? I
>use it exclusively, and never have this problem.

>The only time a forced recalibration screen pops up is when I forget
>to plug in the wheel before starting GPL or leave plugged in a
>gamepad or other joystick.

>--
>Douglas Bollinger
>Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065

Doug:
Don't know. My TSW is plugged into the PDPI L4 Gamecard. No other
controllers plugged, and no other drivers enabled. When I power off,
and come back, I have an immediate Direct Driver calibration screen
which wants calibration.
"Go with throttle up!"
Sam

by **David Kar** » Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Shakes: I've decided to live with it on my Nascar SuperSport. I pretend
it's just me struggling mightily with my beastly car.

"Sorry, guv'--would've done better, but the handling's way off. Look at the
telemetry!"

>>> Thanks for the info, folks, it does help. But what about the PDPI
>>> gamecard? Am I passing it up by using Generic, then? I'm trying to
>>> determine if I should keep it. Using Generic is kind of a pain as I
>>> have to re-calibrate every time I power up.
>>> Sam

>>Why do you have to recalibrate when you use the generic driver? I
>>use it exclusively, and never have this problem.

>>The only time a forced recalibration screen pops up is when I forget
>>to plug in the wheel before starting GPL or leave plugged in a
>>gamepad or other joystick.

>>--
>>Douglas Bollinger
>>Mt. Holly Springs, PA 17065
> Doug:
>Don't know. My TSW is plugged into the PDPI L4 Gamecard. No other
>controllers plugged, and no other drivers enabled. When I power off,
>and come back, I have an immediate Direct Driver calibration screen
>which wants calibration.
>"Go with throttle up!"
>Sam

rec.autos.simulators

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL