rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight
tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits in
GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be getting
quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a
year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but the
problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with the
original pot.

What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, too?
The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in the
last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo
II.

Thanks,

Marc.

--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---"
General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864
****************************************************************************

by **Doug** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Marc,
This is definetly a Thrustmaster problem and is most pronounced in GPL!
I've had two of Thrustmaster's products (GP1 and Nascar Sprint). Both of
these had pots that went bad almost immediately (twitching). I had to resort
to spraying the inside of the pots with electronic contact cleaner before
each session. This stopped the twitching but was only temporary (until the
cleaner evaporated). Now this solution only works for about 1/2 hour (not
good enough for a long race). Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots
(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if
you want to be competitive. Your only solution is to buy a good quality
wheel and pedals (expensive) or continue buying Thrustmaster and hope you
get a good one (two in row was enough for me).

Doug

>My T3 (Nascar Pro) wheel started to decline into "the shakes"...a slight
>tremor that appears most visibly when you are sitting still in the pits in
>GPL. I presumed it was a pot. on its way out...as it seemed to be getting
>quite a bit worse at times. Replaced the pot. with one TM sent me half a
>year ago with some other spare parts I needed when a spring broke, but the
>problem persists. In fact, I would say it is exactly the same as with the
>original pot.

>What else can cause this problem? Would the replacement pot. be bad, too?
>The T3 is plugged into a SB PCI 128. The only change in the system in the
>last 3 months has been the replacement of the Voodoo I card with a Voodoo
>II.

>Thanks,

>Marc.

by **Graeme Nas** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro)
wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at
Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am
also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the
Spa results are updated to be sure).
I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at
all.

Cheers!
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824

1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

by **Doug** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Hey Graeme

Those times are not just competitive, there great!
Maybe I ought to check into this wheel. One question - how comfortable are
the pedals for long sessions? I have long legs and some of the pedals have
an upright position which I find awkard. For me, the pedals make the
difference in a wheel. The MS FF pedals look promising but the price is high
considering that I don't care about FF.
Any input?

Doug

>>Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots
>>(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if
>>you want to be competitive.
>I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro)
>wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at
>Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am
>also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the
>Spa results are updated to be sure).
>I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at
>all.

>Cheers!
>Graeme Nash

>http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
>ICQ# 11257824

>1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

by **Marc Collin** » Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics store.
It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two
from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high
quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can
cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer.

Marc.

>Marc,
>This is definetly a Thrustmaster problem and is most pronounced in GPL!
>I've had two of Thrustmaster's products (GP1 and Nascar Sprint). Both of
>these had pots that went bad almost immediately (twitching). I had to
resort
>to spraying the inside of the pots with electronic contact cleaner before
>each session. This stopped the twitching but was only temporary (until the
>cleaner evaporated). Now this solution only works for about 1/2 hour (not
>good enough for a long race). Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots
>(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if
>you want to be competitive. Your only solution is to buy a good quality
>wheel and pedals (expensive) or continue buying Thrustmaster and hope you
>get a good one (two in row was enough for me).

>Doug

- Show quoted text -

by **Andrew Middleto** » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00

>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics
store.
>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two
>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high
>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can
>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer.

>Marc.

I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have
an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand new
Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel.

I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside
my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1
beta, blah blah and it still happens.

Call me paranoid but I'm sure that "the shakes" are much more likely to
happen when there are other cars near me on the track i.e. a lot of noise.

I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering
wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm
considering.

Andy.

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00

It would fuc*** figure if it was my SB PCI 128 (Ensoniq) contributing to
this problem. The ***y card has so many sound related and driver problems
already.... God, I would like to shoot CL over this one. I don't even have
room in my system for a dedicated game port, so I don't know what to think.
I find it very hard to believe, though, that three pots. (two from TM and
one "independent") all have exactly the same faults.

I only switched to the 128 a few months back...and probably presumed that
the shaking was just my old original pot. starting to go. Now it makes
sense that it is the sound card's game port causing the problem since it
happens consistently even after a major overhaul of the wheel parts.

AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...but thanks for the helpful tip!!

Marc.

>>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics
>store.
>>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two
>>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high
>>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that
can
>>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer.

>>Marc.

>I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have
>an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand
new
>Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel.

>I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside
>my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1
>beta, blah blah and it still happens.

>Call me paranoid but I'm sure that "the shakes" are much more likely to
>happen when there are other cars near me on the track i.e. a lot of noise.

>I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering
>wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm
>considering.

>Andy.

by **Doug** » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Try shooting some electronic contact cleaner (not the wire drier stuff you
find in auto parts stores) directly into the pots before running the sim. If
this fixes the problem (this will only be temporary 'till the stuff
evaporates - but should last about 1/2 hour) then its the pots and not your
pc.
As stated in my previous posts I've had 2 Breakmaster products with bad
pots. Test your setup by doing a calibation on your wheel before and after
spraying it with the contact cleaner. Even a slight jiggling of the wheel,
gas or brake will prevent you from good lap times in GPL.

I just purchased a MS FF for GPL. Since its digital it's absolutely rock
solid and the calibration will never wander. You can adjust the amount of
"tension" and "centering" effect which works in non-FF sims (will not work
in a pure DOS only game). This works great in GPL. Even though GPL does
not support FF effects, the FF is still active which gives you auto-center
like the sprung or bungee corded wheels (this is also adjustable). You get a
good tight feel (its adjustable). You can also it set up for separate gas
and brake axis for GPL. The pedals fit my driving style perfectly and have a
much better position and throw than any of the others I've seen or read
about in the reviews in the under $200 range. Most of the reviews praise the
wheels but slam the pedals (like the Logitech). The decent pedals of the MS
FF made the difference in the decision for me. It's pricey but the features
and pedals made the difference worth it.
This is a good wheel and pedals. I'll never go back to a Thrustmaster!
Before the TSW crowd jumps on me, I had an absolute limit of under $200 to
work with (even this was a stretch since I recently spent wads on upgrades)
or I'd end up in divorce court. I'll choose my wife over GPL anyday but this
way I can have both!

Doug

>It would fuc*** figure if it was my SB PCI 128 (Ensoniq) contributing to
>this problem. The ***y card has so many sound related and driver
problems
>already.... God, I would like to shoot CL over this one. I don't even
have
>room in my system for a dedicated game port, so I don't know what to think.
>I find it very hard to believe, though, that three pots. (two from TM and
>one "independent") all have exactly the same faults.

>I only switched to the 128 a few months back...and probably presumed that
>the shaking was just my old original pot. starting to go. Now it makes
>sense that it is the sound card's game port causing the problem since it
>happens consistently even after a major overhaul of the wheel parts.

>AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>...but thanks for the helpful tip!!

>Marc.

by **Sam Seni** » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00

On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:52:03 -0000, "Andrew Middleton"

>>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics
>store.
>>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two
>>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high
>>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that can
>>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer.
>I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have
>an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand new
>Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel.

>I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside
>my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1
>beta, blah blah and it still happens.

>I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering
>wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm
>considering.

>Andy.

Sorry, old chap, but I don't think either a new wheel or soundcard is
the fix. I have the same problem with a TSW, and now still, with a new
PDPI L4 soundcard. It must be someting else. PDPI has informed me that
they have ordered a TSW and will report after examination. It has been
posted that the fix is to remove and then reinstall the soundcard and
it's software after the Gameport is installed. Others say that has
been tried. If anyone discovers a positive cause or fix, I hope it
gets posted, in large letters! Thanx to those who have tried to help.
Sam

by **Graeme Nas** » Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:00:00

The pedals are fine for me. They seem a bit too spaced apart at first,
but you soon you get used to them. Pedal travel is pretty long which I
like. The brake pedal is quite firm but it's nice. I like the setup and
have no problem driving it. The longest session I've ever run with it
non-stop is an hour long training session at Kyalami. No problems at
all.

The rest of the experience is a bit uncomfortable for me but that's a
problem at my end - my computer desk is too low and so I have to drive
with the wheel unit resting loosely on my knees. I'm sure I could go
quicker if I wasn't constantly moving my hardware around whilst driving
:-)

The arms do shake a bit but I only ever notice it in the pits.

Cheers!
Graeme Nash

http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
ICQ# 11257824

1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

by **Tadej Krev** » Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Yeah,

TM works for me too - 1.27.3 at Monza, 1.04.0x at Watkins 1.19 Kyalami etc...
;o)
I have yet to try out the PDPI which arrived today (damn paper work at
customs)...

I'll report if there will be any time improvements due to this expensive game
card (maybe 1.26 at Monza :o)) but I bought it mainly for online playing
because it removes conflicts with modem, it removes jitter (then my TM wheel
will be accurate as some expensive fancy wheel), and above all of that, it
improves FPS and controller rate (higher it is, easier it is to controll the
car), but this is what they say on their homepage, so I'm yet to see if it's
true....

Tadej Krevh
Lotus Internet Racing
http://members.xoom.com/LotusRacing/

> >Thrustmaster uses very inexpensve pots
> >(translate to low quality) which makes their controllers unfit for GPL if
> >you want to be competitive.
> I'm not sure if that's true, I use a TM "Formula 1" (NASCAR Pro)
> wheel/pedal set and I like to think I'm pretty competitive - 1m27.9 at
> Monza, 1m04.3 at Watkins, 1m20.0 at Kyalami etc etc and I think I am
> also the current leader of the IGPS GPL series (I have to wait until the
> Spa results are updated to be sure).
> I've had the thing since September and have had no problems with it at
> all.

> Cheers!
> Graeme Nash

> http://www.karisma1.demon.co.uk
> ICQ# 11257824

> 1998 Xoom GP2 League Champion

by **Tadej Krev** » Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Go to http://www.pdpi.net and check out their PDPI L4 gamecard. It has got a DSP
(digital signal processor on the board) which is said to remove the jitter,
improve frame rate, etc...Just check it out and see it for yourself, it's
expensive though - more then $100 with shipping.

Tadej

by **Tadej Krev** » Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Yes, I think that the pot can't report jitering values when you DON'T even move
the wheel. It must be controller's fault imo.

> It would fuc*** figure if it was my SB PCI 128 (Ensoniq) contributing to
> this problem. The ***y card has so many sound related and driver problems
> already.... God, I would like to shoot CL over this one. I don't even have
> room in my system for a dedicated game port, so I don't know what to think.
> I find it very hard to believe, though, that three pots. (two from TM and
> one "independent") all have exactly the same faults.

> I only switched to the 128 a few months back...and probably presumed that
> the shaking was just my old original pot. starting to go. Now it makes
> sense that it is the sound card's game port causing the problem since it
> happens consistently even after a major overhaul of the wheel parts.

> AARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> ...but thanks for the helpful tip!!

> Marc.

> >>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics
> >store.
> >>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first two
> >>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high
> >>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that
> can
> >>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer.

> >>Marc.

> >I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I have
> >an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand
> new
> >Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel.

> >I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around inside
> >my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1
> >beta, blah blah and it still happens.

> >Call me paranoid but I'm sure that "the shakes" are much more likely to
> >happen when there are other cars near me on the track i.e. a lot of noise.

> >I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new steering
> >wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm
> >considering.

> >Andy.

by **Marc Collin** » Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:00:00

You mean your Thomas wheel also "jitters" in GPL (or other sims.)?
Uninstall sound card--my game port is on the sound card...could you
elaborate as to what the supposed benefit of this process is?

You don't suppose it could be a problem with GPL do you???????????

Thanks.

Marc.

>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:52:03 -0000, "Andrew Middleton"

>>>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics
>>store.
>>>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first
two
>>>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high
>>>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that
can
>>>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer.

>>I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I
have
>>an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand
new
>>Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel.

>>I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around
inside
>>my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1
>>beta, blah blah and it still happens.

>>I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new
steering
>>wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm
>>considering.

>>Andy.
>Sorry, old chap, but I don't think either a new wheel or soundcard is
>the fix. I have the same problem with a TSW, and now still, with a new
>PDPI L4 soundcard. It must be someting else. PDPI has informed me that
>they have ordered a TSW and will report after examination. It has been
>posted that the fix is to remove and then reinstall the soundcard and
>it's software after the Gameport is installed. Others say that has
>been tried. If anyone discovers a positive cause or fix, I hope it
>gets posted, in large letters! Thanx to those who have tried to help.
>Sam

by **Marc Collin** » Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:00:00

Ignore the GPL part--my frustration is getting me carried away! The
jittering is quite visible in the Win98 calibration screen, so it has
nothing to do with GPL.

Marc.

>You mean your Thomas wheel also "jitters" in GPL (or other sims.)?
>Uninstall sound card--my game port is on the sound card...could you
>elaborate as to what the supposed benefit of this process is?

>You don't suppose it could be a problem with GPL do you???????????

>Thanks.

>Marc.

>>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:52:03 -0000, "Andrew Middleton"

>>>>Well, I just replaced the second TM pot. with one from an electronics
>>>store.
>>>>It looks to be a bit sturdier, but the effect is the same as the first
>two
>>>>from TM--still twitchy!!!! I suppose I could try to find a very high
>>>>quality pot., but first I'd love to know if there is anything else that
>can
>>>>cause the twitchiness--other than a dirty or failing potentiometer.

>>>I'm not so sure that it's just a Thrustmaster potentiometer problem. I
>have
>>>an Ensoniq PCI 64 soundcard and I get twitchy steering with both a brand
>new
>>>Gravis Xterminator gamepad and an old T2 wheel.

>>>I've tried a lot of things to fix this problem - moving cards around
>inside
>>>my comp, new drivers, poll with interrupts on and off, directx 5, 6, 6.1
>>>beta, blah blah and it still happens.

>>>I'm willing to try anything to fix this problem. A gamecard, a new
>steering
>>>wheel, a new soundcard and a test for mad cow disease are all options I'm
>>>considering.

>>>Andy.
>>Sorry, old chap, but I don't think either a new wheel or soundcard is
>>the fix. I have the same problem with a TSW, and now still, with a new
>>PDPI L4 soundcard. It must be someting else. PDPI has informed me that
>>they have ordered a TSW and will report after examination. It has been
>>posted that the fix is to remove and then reinstall the soundcard and
>>it's software after the Gameport is installed. Others say that has
>>been tried. If anyone discovers a positive cause or fix, I hope it
>>gets posted, in large letters! Thanx to those who have tried to help.
>>Sam

rec.autos.simulators

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL

Thrustmaster with "the shakes" in GPL