rec.autos.simulators

Note the upgrade button in the control center. I will tell you that the
technology attached to it was very expensive. But you the customer are worth
it. What it means is, this product and the price attached to the game are
merely a ticket of admission to this family. AMA Superbike will continue be
developed well "forever". And at no charge for the foreseeable future. As we
add features, new bikes, new series (i.e. 250 / 125 GP style bikes) it is
all at no cost to the customer.

The physics model is real. Its all physics algorithms. No kludges here. The
bike wheelies, stoppies, etc correctly. Some of the subtleties such as head
shake and high sides are incredibly complex but we'll do it right when it's
done. I'm a rider (Ducati) and far more of the real thing is build into the
game than ever before. Building a true physics model for a motorcycle is
incredibly complex but our philosophy is do it right. If I start building in
kluges I can't get to where I'd like to go, well maybe I can but only in the
short run.

My previous project "Warbirds" was a work in progress. Many of you may know
I was involved in the company until we merged with IMagic (don't ask
please). I did not go on with that project but moved forward with Motorsims.
We had long term loyal fans at ICI, we will have that here too.

Frankly, the game is fun and its certainly not the bike on a stick that
others foist on the *** community. And to be commercially viable it must
appeal to a broad range of players. That is why we will have different
classes for different communities.

I challenge you to get out and race Charles, Chris and others that took the
time to get to know it.

Go head to head with them in a online race and they will humble you (for
awhile). That's when you will get the vision.

Frankly, I would hit the upgrade button every time you play. You won't be
disappointed.

Thank you for your concern,

Jokker
(Bob McCarthy)

Rob Swindells
3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points);
9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6)
"If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time
before." ~Martin Brundle

Cheers,

Steve B.

M

--

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

M

Lets discuss what we did and why we chose what we delivered

Graphics engine

We spent close to two years building a race purpose graphics engine which is
an incredibly capable foundation for our suite of racing products. There are
more polys in just two bikes with riders that in an entire frame of most
previous generation racing simulations. The terrain (track) is a true 3D
world, no tunnels here.
The distant features are intact and don't build as you look forward down the
track with any decent game cpu. You don't have to turn off graphic features
to get a decent frame rate with any middling CPU. Every poly has the ability
to be tagged with P characteristics so we can plan for true weather events,
crash events, oil leaks in the racing line etc. It will allow weather events
to be true including temps, humidity, rain squalls on the back straight,
etc. Downside is the enormous number of polys that have to be hand seamed
and apparently we missed a few. This is an easy correction and we would
appreciate  bug reports to our customer service people

Online play

As you know I was involved with Warbirds, a respected online product. Like
WB, Motorsim's product is pure online to the core. No silly pretty effects
at the expense of frame rate. No players with a weak ISP trashing each
others network connection. We have the ability to eliminate cheating by tech
inspections before each race. Databases of player scores and ranking.
Classes with beginner, novice, advanced, and expert classes for differing
skills and desires. The add of  P(physics) difficulty going up with class.
The ability to have online AI which eliminates bad play like crashing out
others (punishing the bad guy while leaving the victim unharmed) or even
riding backwards to spoil others play. We can run special events including 2
player per bike endurance events with voice com between rider and pit. Team
play will be included and with the ability to reserve tracks for private
(grudge!) play we can foster leagues. All this is possible with a product
designed to the core to allow online interaction. This is a drivers sim not
a fantasy sim. No famous names that you couldn't beat on your best day but
real world community -player against real player. Thats racing to me. We
have many friends in the racing community and I guarintee you'll race a
number of the Gods of the AMA series. This BS about the drivers blowing us
off is well just BS. They are some of our best friends and have supported us
from the beginning. Downside is that the user interface is not retail box
oriented. That why you first the enter race selection with enter/exit and
then hit the big race button. You can leave a practice session go tweek you
bike settings and reenter the same race. When we add environmental effects
you'll have to spend serious time on the dyno to compensate on changing
conditions. As the day gets warmer and the humidity goes down, whats you
setup going to do??. Its also why the field builds as it does rather than a
pan over a fantasy field of the greatest riders in the world. You guys are
the purists of the community. I would hope that this approach would appeal
to this crowd. Client/Server rules for games.

Run Time Physics (P)

We have two full time P guys and both fit the description "rocket
scientist". Actually Matt came from Boeing and was a Rocket Scientist. Maybe
just as important Matt is also a long term online gamer (para in WB).  Sam
has a pH.D. in vehicular dynamics. We also get input from the racing
community, both riders (esp. David Sadowski) and manufactures including data
(motor and chassis) logging from the bikes. We have embarked on an extremely
ambitious project to describe this mathematically (algorithms). We have
avoided kluges as best we can. I think that the AMA physics model is the
best possible anywhere. The problem is that its not complete and may take
significant time before every little nuance is depicted. Hell it probably
would take a P8 running at 2000GHz to model it all. But it does model CG
(rider pitch and lean), suspension geometry, Cg shift with accel and
braking. Tire model includes temp and wear and certainly the traction
effects to go with it. Fork and swingarm geometry is included. Go to a side
view (key 4) and check out the stoppies. Wheelies work too. We did add
limits for playability but with better (motorcycle) controllers we can model
countersteer and remove some of the limits. If the experts want the
challenge of the full unrestricted model we can offer that. That part is
easy. The downside of the way we're doing it is some of the subtleties don't
come through (yet). And we get nailed for not spending as much time on the
rider P model. Actually I like the rider model, he does some funny things.
The crucifix move is scary. Maybe we'll add a cinematic for falls and
crashes but it will take unnecessary CPU. Its a race sim not a fantasy sim.
We're expanding our physics efforts and recently brought Prof. Bob Woods on
board. Prof. Wood and his class at UTA have won the SAE world competition 7
or 8 times in the past 20 years. They finished 2 in the worlds this year in
London. Carroll Smith is the greatest racing engineer living today. He's
also with us but I guess this is a 4 wheel thing. I will tell you this if
you take the time to ride the bikes as they should be written (braking and
accel upright, limited to no brake and accel while turning)  you'll get it.
The help aids may remove some of the feel but that's again easy to adjust. I
will tell you the lack of physical feel is a handicap with the full P on.
Its much harder than real life. I'm just trying to avoid kluges as much as
possible. You should get a feel for the bike after a number of laps. You'll
also get the smoothness and the feeling of speed if you give it a chance.
Try the setup options until you find something that suits you style.

Tracks and Bikes.

Man I wanted them all but Harley just blew us off. Some of the guys
suggested putting their bike model in and calling it Hardly Everwins but
that is bad manners and not our style. Phoenix was dropped from the schedule
so we didn't add it. Vegas was done (and I really like the track) but it was
dropped too. Daytona didn't want to play without us paying FAR more than the
company could afford. We're contacting a track designer and having him build
the blueprint of a superspeedway sited here on out home office site.
Motorsims Motorspeedway has a nice ring, don't you think The guys in Europe
had it easy, the actual bikes and tracks are part (apparently) of the FIM
contract. The Honda people were (hmmm what word) unhappy that they weren't
even consulted on product containing there brand. We think the relationship
with the track and bike guys are very important in the long view. But then
again its a process not a shelf filler for 6 months. Think online here too.

Release Dates

I never promised anything other than a mid/late summer release.

Its a process. I do respect Pappy but their new owner (Havas) is possibly
changing vision. My goal with a very different approach is to sit on top of
the purist world while providing entertainment value to the broad community.
They are not mutually exclusive. I'm working on weather and environmental
events for my next project. AMA SB will be addressed also with the new
technology without charge to the current player. It's a process.

Thanks for you time,

Bob McCarthy (jokk)

I would personally like to say, and no this is not at all a biased
point-of-view, that after the GPL game engine the Motorsims Game engine is
the best I have ever seen.  It is complex, and at first look it might seem
arcadish, but if you look at the complexity of the bike and how it reacts to
the 3d environment of the track you will understand.  For those who don't
know, you have a _total freedom_ of where you want to go.  It is something
that no other title has yet matched.  Yes you can go anywhere, in the
parking lot, near the stands, in the pits, in the hills at Laguna, go over
bridges, etc..   The physics are quite challenging, those bikes are NOT like
GP500's remember. It's like comparing a CART vs a F1 in handling.  Look also
at the incredible game controller support.  Have you ever seen something
that complex ?

The opinion of the r.a.s. group would have been much more positive if it was
a car sim instead of a bike (imho the market is clustered already for bike
games, I mean there's almost more bike games than stockcar games on the
market).  The work in progress will be great in the future, I totally
support the newcomer here, and I really think the people who've raced it
30minutes and returned to actually race it a little more.  I've seen the
updates in the beta versions, and the way they go is the good way.  Take a
supersport, and go fly at Road Atlanta into the esses.  Or for you Tom, go
see finally an accurate Sears Point :)

I mean, Im not the Devil's advocate here,  I think some people clearly
over-reacted that it.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Bob

<SNIP>

Cheers,
Bob

Bob

Well, I got the game today, and I'm very happy with it. It's difficult for me
with my wheel and only 4 wheel knowledge, but I do enjoy trying to race