rec.autos.simulators

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

Bruce Kennewel

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I'm curious.
How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
will allow) suspension and diff settings?

(I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
driving experience!!).

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.racesimcentral.net/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----

Asgeir Nesoe

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Asgeir Nesoe » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I would say that I am almost exclusively using historically realistic settings,
Bruce.
I am always in the 60-80 lbf/inch range with the springs, never use ride heights
lower than 3.5 inches, I use often a relatively stiff front ARB and a soft rear bar
(120 front, 60 rear), I always use diff settings of 60/85 or 45/85 (85/85 at
Monaco).

The bad thing is that my PBs are almost exclusively those "ugly" laps where I just
mash the throttle on the exit. It shouldn't work in real life, but it does work in
GPL... :-(((

GPL doesn't award smoothness as it should!!!

---Asgeir---


> I'm curious.
> How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
> will allow) suspension and diff settings?

> (I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
> driving experience!!).

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

>   -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
>    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
> ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----

Stephen Barnet

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Stephen Barnet » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I try to as much as possible (whats the point otherwise, you may as well
play GP2 if you want no suspension travel and rock hard springs), but
information is so scarce that apart from springs and ground clearance some
of the other settings are a bit of an educated guess. I felt that an
'authentic' movement was building in r.a.s. last year, but it has fizzled
out a bit.
Steve


>I'm curious.
>How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
>will allow) suspension and diff settings?

>(I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
>either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
>driving experience!!).

>--
>Regards,
>Bruce Kennewell,
>Canberra, Australia.
>---------------------------

>  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
>   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
>------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers

==-----
Gregor Vebl

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Gregor Vebl » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00


> I would say that I am almost exclusively using historically realistic settings,
> Bruce.
> I am always in the 60-80 lbf/inch range with the springs, never use ride heights
> lower than 3.5 inches, I use often a relatively stiff front ARB and a soft rear bar
> (120 front, 60 rear), I always use diff settings of 60/85 or 45/85 (85/85 at
> Monaco).

> The bad thing is that my PBs are almost exclusively those "ugly" laps where I just
> mash the throttle on the exit. It shouldn't work in real life, but it does work in
> GPL... :-(((

> GPL doesn't award smoothness as it should!!!

> ---Asgeir---

I do not know what the correct historic settings were (can someone
please point me to a source?), but as my driving style is smooth, I
notice that the settings that work for me are really close to what you
describe here (my favourite diff on the Ferrari is for example 60/60).
Gives you something to think about, doesn't it (though I am not sure
what it is ;) )?
Alan Orto

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Alan Orto » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I don't. I'm in it for the racing and could care less of the theme. If
it wasn't for GPL's good physic's I probably wouldn't even have bought
GPL.

> I'm curious.
> How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
> will allow) suspension and diff settings?

> (I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
> driving experience!!).

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------

>   -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
>    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
> ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----

Leo Landma

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Leo Landma » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00



> (I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> either 45/85 or 30/85.

Bruce, I sympathize with your attitude. But (you guessed this was
coming) when racing online my competitive instincts take over, and I go
for the quickest setup - realistic or not. Maybe it's time for a GPL
Classic league...

Problem is, what settings are historically accurate? How do you know
what they were using in those days?

--
Bye,
Leo

Rafe McAulif

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Rafe McAulif » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

On Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:33:59 +1100, "Bruce Kennewell"


>I'm curious.
>How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
>will allow) suspension and diff settings?

>(I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
>either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
>driving experience!!).

I'm curious to know how you can handle a 30/85 diff!! I did a number
of tests of various diff combinations at the Glen in the Lotus, trying
to find what combination would allow correct differential action,
whilst limiting inside rear spin and without going too far to outside
rear spin. The best setting should allow the inside rear to spin only
just before the outside, to stop the rear end sliding out. I found
that 30 deg. would only allow 1 clutch before the rear was mostly
locked. 45 was also only 1, and 60 was about 2. However 85 degrees
allows a big tuning potential, since you really need 6 clutches to
fully lock up the outside rear, or only 2 or 3 for a spinning inside
wheel. That is why the 85 diff is so popular. There just isn't any
room to adjust with the 60 deg. diff. 3 is too much, 2 is too little.
At least that is what I found.

I've tried the same as you in the name of historical settings and what
seemed more "correct", but the bottom line is that in gpl they don't
work very well, at least in terms of driveability. I congratulate you
on being able to control these bastards with those settings, but how
do you go around Monaco???? Also, how many clutches do you use? How
quick are the cars using your setups?

Rafe Mc

Richard G Cleg

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Richard G Cleg » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

: I would say that I am almost exclusively using historically realistic settings,
: Bruce.
: I am always in the 60-80 lbf/inch range with the springs, never use ride heights
: lower than 3.5 inches, I use often a relatively stiff front ARB and a soft rear bar
: (120 front, 60 rear), I always use diff settings of 60/85 or 45/85 (85/85 at
: Monaco).

: The bad thing is that my PBs are almost exclusively those "ugly" laps where I just
: mash the throttle on the exit. It shouldn't work in real life, but it does work in
: GPL... :-(((

: GPL doesn't award smoothness as it should!!!

  Take some clutches out then.  With those diff settings I think you
could say goodbye to "mashing the throttle" forever.

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
    www:  http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Grant Reev

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Grant Reev » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Hi Bruce :)


> I'm curious.
> How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
> will allow) suspension and diff settings?

> (I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
> driving experience!!).

In my search for a GPL setup that feels right to drive, I've so far
reached
a point of using setups that have rideheights of 3.5-4.0 inches, springs
in
the range of 65-75lb/ft front, 100-110 rear, ARBs of 130-150 lb/in
front,
70-80 rear, and I use a diff of 60/60 with 2 clutches.

I don't like using an 85 power side diff, that has just too much inner
wheelspin, but 30 and 45 is just too hard to control the rear of the
car exiting a corner :( The rear is either gripping, or snapping
***ly
away - there just isn't enough of a transition to control.
On the coasting side, 85 makes the car a little too twitchy to control
when trailbraking for me :) 60 gives the sharp responsive turnin but
while still being controllable.

I don't think these setups induce a wild driving style - if i get too
*** the gas exiting a turn the back WILL come around on me :) I find
to get the best exit I have to be straightening up the wheel, or even
countersteering, to keep the weight from transferring off the inside
rear, but this only works best when I'm keeping the car pointing
straightish,
rather than rather sideways. I do probably get somewhat sideways
sometimes
when trail braking, but that's because the car is well balanced, and
serves
it's purpose for slowing down the car :) My fastest laps always come
when
I'm being the smoothest.

I don't know if you'd consider my driving to be "too wild" or what, but
if you're interested in judging I could send you a replay of a 1:25.9 at
zandvort in the cooper, and the setup. I find the cooper responds really
well to the 60/60/2 diff.

I also appear to like starting paragraphs with the letter "I". hmmmmm.

Grant.

Jon Anderse

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Jon Anderse » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Besides: I historical correctness means setups that is slower, and GPL
models handling accurately, then history was wrong; the drivers of '67
should have been using different setups.....

Jon




> > (I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> > either 45/85 or 30/85.

> Bruce, I sympathize with your attitude. But (you guessed this was
> coming) when racing online my competitive instincts take over, and I go
> for the quickest setup - realistic or not. Maybe it's time for a GPL
> Classic league...

> Problem is, what settings are historically accurate? How do you know
> what they were using in those days?

> --
> Bye,
> Leo

Aubre

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Aubre » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I've tinkered with a 45/85 diff a bit.  If you disconnect the rear roll bar
and make the front fairly stiff, you can get rid of some of the oversteer.
However, I find this results in a setup that is far too soft to be
competitive.  If you want to be "historically correct" I guess a soft setup
is exactly what you want, but expect to be a good second or two slower than
you usually are.  I suspect the lack of high frequency bumps in GPL is what
makes the stiffer setups work so well.

Personally, I use setups like the hotlappers use, very low, stiff, and with
a 85/30 diff.  Because I think we can only make the most of the imperfect
(but wonderful) physics model that Papy gave us, and because I've seen a few
too many pictures of the real Lotus 49 practically scraping the ground, and
of course because winning races is more fun than making excuses.

-A


>On Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:33:59 +1100, "Bruce Kennewell"

>>I'm curious.
>>How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
>>will allow) suspension and diff settings?

>>(I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
>>either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
>>driving experience!!).

>I'm curious to know how you can handle a 30/85 diff!! I did a number
>of tests of various diff combinations at the Glen in the Lotus, trying
>to find what combination would allow correct differential action,
>whilst limiting inside rear spin and without going too far to outside
>rear spin. The best setting should allow the inside rear to spin only
>just before the outside, to stop the rear end sliding out. I found
>that 30 deg. would only allow 1 clutch before the rear was mostly
>locked. 45 was also only 1, and 60 was about 2. However 85 degrees
>allows a big tuning potential, since you really need 6 clutches to
>fully lock up the outside rear, or only 2 or 3 for a spinning inside
>wheel. That is why the 85 diff is so popular. There just isn't any
>room to adjust with the 60 deg. diff. 3 is too much, 2 is too little.
>At least that is what I found.

>I've tried the same as you in the name of historical settings and what
>seemed more "correct", but the bottom line is that in gpl they don't
>work very well, at least in terms of driveability. I congratulate you
>on being able to control these bastards with those settings, but how
>do you go around Monaco???? Also, how many clutches do you use? How
>quick are the cars using your setups?

>Rafe Mc

Bruce Kennewel

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Yes,, of course I forgot to mention the ARB settings, Asgeir.
And you're correct......smoothness doesn't seem to be rewarded!

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


> I would say that I am almost exclusively using historically realistic
settings,
> Bruce.
> I am always in the 60-80 lbf/inch range with the springs, never use ride
heights
> lower than 3.5 inches, I use often a relatively stiff front ARB and a soft
rear bar
> (120 front, 60 rear), I always use diff settings of 60/85 or 45/85 (85/85
at
> Monaco).

> The bad thing is that my PBs are almost exclusively those "ugly" laps
where I just
> mash the throttle on the exit. It shouldn't work in real life, but it does
work in
> GPL... :-(((

> GPL doesn't award smoothness as it should!!!

> ---Asgeir---


> > I'm curious.
> > How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
> > will allow) suspension and diff settings?

> > (I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> > either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
> > driving experience!!).

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------

> >   -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
==----------
> >    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the
World!
> > ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers
==-----

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

An interesting fact regarding Jim Clark and the Lotus he used in 1967.  It
was only ever "tweaked" twice during the season and one of those tweaks was
reversed (the toe-in was changed by a third of a degree or something like
that.  He didn't like the handling change so it was changed back for the
next race!)

Pity that the "authentic movement" has faded out.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------


> I try to as much as possible (whats the point otherwise, you may as well
> play GP2 if you want no suspension travel and rock hard springs), but
> information is so scarce that apart from springs and ground clearance some
> of the other settings are a bit of an educated guess. I felt that an
> 'authentic' movement was building in r.a.s. last year, but it has fizzled
> out a bit.
> Steve


> >I'm curious.
> >How many of you are using historically realistic (or as close as the sim
> >will allow) suspension and diff settings?

> >(I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> >either 45/85 or 30/85.  The diff settings really make for a hell of a
> >driving experience!!).

> >--
> >Regards,
> >Bruce Kennewell,
> >Canberra, Australia.
> >---------------------------

> >  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News
> ==----------
> >   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the
World!
> >------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers
> ==-----

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Leo Landma

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Leo Landma » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Actually, both were reversed, according to Mr. Oliver :-)
But he was talking about the changes made by the driver. The team (probably
Mr. Chapman) adapted ride height, spring rates etc. for each track.

Graham Hill on the other hand changed a lot of settings AND kept meticulous
records of all values. Now if we could just have a look in that book...

Bye,
Leo

Bruce Kennewel

GPL: Who uses "historic" settings?

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

There is enough information available to get a pretty accurate idea of what
the suspension settings were....particularly ride-height (and the only
"ground-scraping" that Lotus 49s did was under heavy braking).

Information on transaxle settings are also available from Mike Hewland, for
one, and also ZF.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------




> > (I run all my cars at a minimum of 4.25 inches GC and differentials at
> > either 45/85 or 30/85.

> Bruce, I sympathize with your attitude. But (you guessed this was
> coming) when racing online my competitive instincts take over, and I go
> for the quickest setup - realistic or not. Maybe it's time for a GPL
> Classic league...

> Problem is, what settings are historically accurate? How do you know
> what they were using in those days?

> --
> Bye,
> Leo

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----

rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.