rec.autos.simulators

by **Ian Parke** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I heard an article on the BBC radio news about 2 years ago.
Somebody (Very wealthy I'd assume :) ) approached a company to make a true
F1 simulator complete with motion***pit using hydraulics. The rumoured
cost was approaching 1 million UK and apparently it was that difficult /
realistic that nearly everytime the driver left the pits the engine stalled.
So if that was true, a full blown F1 simulator does indeed exist.
I can't verify the accuracy of this report, but it sounded plausible at the
time :)

--
Ian Parker

UKGPL League
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ukgpl/index.html
--

> :> Why go for the small niche market? Kaemmer and Cassidy should be
looking
> : at
> :> the huge market that is formular 1. Thats were the the money is,
surely
> : the
> :> teams must have some interests in simulators.

> : Professional racing simulations exist since many years and are already
much
> : more accurate than the Papyrus game engine. Those units almost cost in
the
> : million dollars, and are much more accurate than the GPL game engine
will
> : ever be. I've personally seen articles on this, and those simulators
run on
> : SUN Microsystem computers and feature incredible telemetry and
aerodynamic
> : physics.

> Where do you get your information from on this? I really doubt the
> existance of such things. In two of the best funded forms of
> motorsport, F1 and CART we know that drivers _don't_ use such things
> because they actually use game products to learn tracks. I expect
> NASCAR drivers would try to chew the computer or something so which
> form of motor sport is actually building these simulators?

> Are you sure you're not confusing their CFD simulations and
> strategy simulations with race simulations? These are very different
> things. When your GP commentator talks about GP teams running "race
> simulations" he doesn't mean they've got some super GPL game and drive
> round - they just have a model which estimates fuel consumption, tyre
> wear and so on to work out the good pit stop strategies.

> --
> Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
> Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

> www: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Kirk Lan** » Sat, 09 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Very well said. Maybe release a 'core' engine, and have add-in packs that
include everything you need for that car/era (and some things could be
shared, like certain tracks).

Really, GPL isn't that hard - once you get to a point where you can drive a
car well and have a consistent feel from track-to-track (i.e. using Alison
Hine's Red Candy on an Eagle :) it changes from hard yet fun to an absolute
blast. Then you just treat each track like a rally and learn how to drive
each type of curve, until you eventually memorize every track, from The Glen
to The Ring...

*sigh*

--
Kirk Lane

ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187

"It goes down the same as a thousand before
No one's gettin' smarter, no one's learnin the score
The never ending spree of death and *** and hate
Is gonna tie your own rope"
-'Come Out And Play', The Offspring

by **Jan Verschuere** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Well said... NO SELL OUT!!

Jan.
----

by Jo » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>Forgive me for being a completely ignorant of business but, are you saying
>it would cost $50,000,000 to produce the game?

No, he's saying a successful retail game takes in $25-$50 million at
retail. Maybe half of which the developer sees. It costs at LEAST a
couple million to develop, often more ... and there's the risk of a
poor performer like GPL (though Papy may feel that particular title
will pay off as long-term R&D).

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

by **Harjan Bran** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Well Tony I first have to say that you understood my posting just the way I
had it intented it. But I have to say that I waited to send it to Papyrus
and Sierra until I had seen some of the reactions on my posting. After I a
few days I've sent it to the both of them just because nobody could really
convince me that I was wrong.
I have to say that Georges reaction wasn't quite constructive to what I was
trying to achieve. He's right when he says that Papy and Sierra don't decide
there business strategics by reading the newsgroup.
So why did I name it PAPY: Please read. Well we all know that there are
people within Papy who read this newsgroup, I think if somebody like that
would understand my idea it would be much more powerfull than only sending
it to them. Because I'm quite sure that they'll not be very keen on
receiving ideas through there support address, and so they'll not spent very
much time reading it. By doing it this way I was trying to really achieve
the optimum effect. Maybe I was wrong, I hope tell time will tell I'm not.

by **skot** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

end thread...... :]

Skotty Flynn

webmaster - http://www.racesimcentral.net/
"skotty" on TEN and WON

by **George M. Smile** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

> Because I'm quite sure that they'll not be very keen on
> receiving ideas through there support address, and so
> they'll not spent very much time reading it.

address. It may be popular to dismiss such addresses
as nothing more than links to /dev/null but as someone
who has seen how much market research actually
costs I can pretty much assure you every reasonable
email to that address is given more than a passing
glance.

something different.

As for constructive ideas, I think someone needs to
license the GPL engine from Sierra and form their
own motorsport simulations company. That is about
the only way we will see packageless GPL engine
based games for two to three times the standard
price.

Any stock option millionaires out there looking for
a change of pace?

- George

by **Joel Willstei** » Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:00:00

> >Forgive me for being a completely ignorant of business but, are you
saying
> >it would cost $50,000,000 to produce the game?

> No, he's saying a successful retail game takes in $25-$50 million at
> retail. Maybe half of which the developer sees. It costs at LEAST a
> couple million to develop, often more ... and there's the risk of a
> poor performer like GPL (though Papy may feel that particular title
> will pay off as long-term R&D).

> Joe McGinn

Joe,

Thanks for being one of the few to see my point,and explaining it better
then I did.
Joel Willstein

by **Stephen Gree** » Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Err, I think you will find that the cost of a single jet is larger than ALL
the F1 team budgets put together.

by **Stephen Gree** » Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Did you get out of the bed the wrong side George, or are you just having a
bad day?

> > It wasn't an in-depth analysis - why else would someone post
> > what is apparently directed to Papyrus to the newgroup at large?

> Ignorance (fancy that). The misplaced belief that when a member
> of Papyrus frequents this newsgroup they do so in an completely
> official capacity. The equally misplaced belief that Papyrus alone
> is master of their destiny.

> In other words don't go attaching your logic to what another
> person writes. I wrote that posting messages directed towards
> companies on R.A.S is a waste of time unless you also send
> those messages through the appropriate company managed
> channels. You seem to think that was being too harsh since
> a message entitled "PAPY: Please read" wasn't really directed
> towards Papyrus. Am I missing something here?

> - George

by **Woodie** » Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>Err, I think you will find that the cost of a single jet is larger than ALL
>the F1 team budgets put together.

Depends on the jet fighter in question, but I'd say as long as there's not much
"stealth" technology involved, you can easily come in under the F1 total. The
big guys in F1 are spending over $100 million, so the total is probably around
one billion. Most of the fighters in use today are far below that, and the
simple ones like the F-16 and F-20 are in the low millions. Warning, if you're
defending your country with F-20's you're in danger of being conquered by San
Marino.

Don McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports

by **Woodie** » Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:00:00

>Don, what is an F-20? I am a flight combat simmer and I need to know
>these things.. :)

An F-5 with two engines. Originally a trainer, T-38 maybe? It was developed
as an sffordable fighter for sale to other countries without much money. The
fact that it's completely outclassed comes in handy if we decide next week that
the poor country is now a bad guy.

Don McCorkle
Vote Libertarian
Pro-choice on everything

by **Larr** » Mon, 11 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I think the game industry is getting a lot like the music industry,
unfortunately :( The developers that do all the work (musicians) get
little, while the distributers (music companies) make most of the profits.

-larry

> >Forgive me for being a completely ignorant of business but, are you
saying
> >it would cost $50,000,000 to produce the game?

> No, he's saying a successful retail game takes in $25-$50 million at
> retail. Maybe half of which the developer sees. It costs at LEAST a
> couple million to develop, often more ... and there's the risk of a
> poor performer like GPL (though Papy may feel that particular title
> will pay off as long-term R&D).

> Joe McGinn
> ==========================================
> Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
> ==========================================