rec.autos.simulators

Frankly, there's nothing particularly exciting there. GP500 looks a lot
better...being Microprose - we can be hopefull of a similar standard
when in comes to GP3...WE HOPE...

However - the Physics Engine is what you want to see..RIGHT..
Well, GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for your
average gamer..

SO - ARCADE MODE AND SIMULATION MODE...

Easy - on Start up, you either get Arcade handling - or a
Simulation....then we'll all be happy.  Not a difficult thing to program
in. Then it'll sell like hotcakes (it'll do that anyway) and be a
cracking sim.

DOUG

Exactly right!!!

:-)

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

--
Sean Higgins

"HigPup"
Proud Member of Beaver Creek Racing
Redline Racing League  www.rrlnrs.com
CNSRL  www.cnrsl.com

http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/  HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128
http://www.atitech.ca   ATI Technologies

GP3's graphics look crummy and dated becuase they havent added hardware 3d
yet.  I'm sure it will look much better once they do.

    -A

Probably more of "1967 Grand Prix cars that the average gamer has never
heard of or ever seen" didn't appeal to the average gamer.

Either case, or all the others are pure speculation.

But, yes, this along with internet based multiplayer mode should be a NO
BRAINER.

Or perhaps, by this point, just haven't released any screenshots of it in
operation. :)

Sean,

      Your reason for not wanting to buy GPL does carry some weight.  One
would really have to have some knowledge of the history of Formula 1 for
this sim to have some meaning.  Afterall, the 67' season was more than 30
years ago. Sierra had the same problem with Red Baron II that actually had a
worse sales record than GPL.

      But there were other problems with GPL. There was no way around the
steep learning curve. Very few casual auto sim racers were willing to spend
the countless hours to learn how to drive the F1 cars.  And there was no way
stated in the manual to race the F3 cars or slow down the AIs.   One would
have had to done quite a bit surfing to find Alison Hines site that had this
very information.

      For a auto simulation to be successful,it has to appeal to more than
the dedicated sim racer. After all,we are a very small segment of "pie".

Joel Willstein

Me neither. I've no interest *whatsoever* in late 60's racing. But I love
simulated racing on the PC... and GPL gives me the best driving experience
I've ever had sat at my desk.

10 FOR cliche=0 TO ad-nauseum
20 PRINT "It's not about the year, it's about the experience."
30 REPEAT

Andrew McP

Having a steep learning curve isn't a bad thing at all.  Its about time.
Games have become too easy and all they do is throw more and more monsters,
abnormally fast AI [how many folks didn't have the AI cranked well above
100% at a majority of tracks after say 8 months to a year of playing N2?! or
ICR2?!  I did.]

Why not?  It took the men who drove those real F1 cars, and even today's top
of the line racing vehicles, countless hours to prefect their craft.  You
are simulating their craft, therefore you should be prepared to dedicate
time to it as they did.  Anything else is just an sad excuse.

the AIs.   One would

Yes, now that was a mistake.

Yes, but perhaps its time to change things so that more people HAVE to put
more time and effort into games to become "skilled".  Go talk to people and
see the amount of time they spend at console fighting games, or FPS games,
etc to get really really good.    I'm sure Thrash would tell you he has
thousands of hours at the helm of Quake, et al.

Then how do you explain, Joel, that (a) the original Red Baron sold like
hot-cakes, (b) any WW2 flight-sim worth its salt sells like hot cakes?

Surely if this time difference carried any weight across the board then it
would also have a big effect on the sale of flight-sims (the largest sim
group of the lot)?

BK

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Easily explained (IMO) by the fact that the average gamer is over 30+ and
brought up on a diet of WW2 comics and films.

Andrew McP

: Then how do you explain, Joel, that (a) the original Red Baron sold like
: hot-cakes, (b) any WW2 flight-sim worth its salt sells like hot cakes?

I think Red Baron died (like Flying Corps) because it came out in the
transition time between software and 3D graphics.  A patch was drawn up,
but the graphics were still nothing to write home about (and Flying Corps
had awful tearing on some Voodoo cards).  RBII got a bad reputation from
its initial slow-as-molasses software version, and then never managed to
drag itself back up.

Stpehen

: Surely if this time difference carried any weight across the board then it
: would also have a big effect on the sale of flight-sims (the largest sim
: group of the lot)?

: BK

:>

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GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for REALISM!

: GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for REALISM!

Finally I can speak from experience and say... bollocks.  Or something
like that.  I am a casual sim racing fanatic.  I "drive" about 3 or 4
hours a week, never came close to the GP2 hotlaps (hell, never even close
to running with the top level AI), never got a handle on ICR2 road
courses, gave up on getting the push out of short-track NASCAR setups etc.
etc.  All in all, a marginal simmer, compared to most here.  I can run
mid-pack in GPL in its default state (as installed) and have a hell of a
lot of fun.  I can also see the potential to improve and
eventually challenge the likes of Clark, Gurney, Hine and Arnao :) because
I can see exactly where I am losing time and speed, something I never
really saw in GP2.

I've been practicing on weekends only for one month, quickly got out of
the trainers, dumped the helps, and still use a joystick.  It is
challenging, yes, but in a good way.  I think the detailed physics model
actually makes it *easier* to get the hang of it, because it communicates
so much more to you about how the car is moving around the track.

I run it on my girlfriend's brother's (whew) computer, hence the
weekend-only play.  (by the way, this was my effort to keep it from
infecting my life as I write up my PhD, and so far it has worked!).  He is
a 19-year old FPS fan, Playstation owner, drivers F1RS with the keyboard
etc.  Some would say a true "arcade" fan, and the hardest target to hit
with the over-the-top GPL.  He has also very little real-world driving
experience.  Well, he's progressing as fast, or faster, than I am,
matching my times, and generally enjoying his time with GPL.  Mind you,
he's not a fanatic about it in the way I am, due to the "generational"
difference of 12 years.  Names like Stewart and Clark don't mean much to
him.  But still, he likes it, managed to get a handle on it, and looks to
be perservering with it.

So, a dissenting opinion.
Stephen

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