rec.autos.simulators

How much would people pay for another GPL?

Chuck Kandle

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Chuck Kandle » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00




> > Maybe *you* do.  I do only when I have to.  And I won't pay to race
> > online, period.

> Then you may not race online in the future.  Simple reality is that nothing
> is free although somehow a whole lot of people seem to think so, including
> some interesting business models that will not last.  But back to the point,
> everything has a cost and the cost + a profit margin must be passed to the
> final consumer or the whole project is a big waste of time for everyone
> involved.

Agreed.  Although first they must find a sizable customer base to
support core costs, never mind any profit margin.  Failing that, and *A
LOT* of people will refuse to pay to race, it still becomes a waste of
time.  For the developers anyway.  I refuse to let those that wage
corporate greed on the populace ***my pocketbook.  It won't happen.

And as far as "interesting business models that won't last", you may
want to look at RedHat's latest stock price.  For selling a free O/S,
their initial offering a few months ago of $15 a share is now at $245.75
a share.  Go figure, huh?  ;-)

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net
K&S Racing
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

Michael

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Michael » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00


It's amazing what greed can do to a stock price. Currently any Linux-
associated business IPO generates interest far in excess of any rational
calculation.

- Michael

pl..

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by pl.. » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I had a P133, a Rendition card, and a TSW, and I was greatly pleased
with playing ICR and N2.  After hearing about GPL from this group and
other sources, I bought a new computer so GPL would run well.

So the answer to "What would you pay?" for me is about $1000 plus
$34.95!  Even at this cost, the rate has been about $.30 an hour for
some really great fun.

If Papy would produce a new sim of GPL quality that would run on
equipment most of us now have, I would certainly consider paying a
premium price - $100 to $200 is still a bargain on a per hour basis.
Think how much an hour a $40 game cost if you dismiss it after only a
few hours.

Papy could save marketing costs by ignoring the ads in gamer magazines,
and advertise where their clientele would see it - here.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Richard G Cleg

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Richard G Cleg » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00

: I wonder what percentage of those buyers are under the illusion that they
: are buying Linux.  I don't really think Red Hat falls into the "interesting
: business models that won't last" category.  But it's definately way, way
: overpriced considering they really don't even have a product.

  They have a product - it's just that they give it away for free.
That's a buisness model I can admire.

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
    www:  http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Chuck Kandle

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Chuck Kandle » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00



> : I wonder what percentage of those buyers are under the illusion that they
> : are buying Linux.  I don't really think Red Hat falls into the "interesting
> : business models that won't last" category.  But it's definately way, way
> : overpriced considering they really don't even have a product.

>   They have a product - it's just that they give it away for free.
> That's a buisness model I can admire.

Absolutely!!  And there's ample proof it can be profitable as well for
the corporation involved.  A model more corporations should follow, I'd
say.  And a corporation could definitely make money on a free online
racing service.  Just think about it for a minute, and you'll see what I
mean.

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

Chuck Kandle

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Chuck Kandle » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00



> > And as far as "interesting business models that won't last", you may
> > want to look at RedHat's latest stock price.  For selling a free O/S,
> > their initial offering a few months ago of $15 a share is now at $245.75
> > a share.  Go figure, huh?  ;-)

> It's amazing what greed can do to a stock price. Currently any Linux-
> associated business IPO generates interest far in excess of any rational
> calculation.

> - Michael

That's true.  I think it just goes to show there is quite a volume of
folks out there that are sick & tired of the same old M$ BS.  Maybe this
can kick them into gear into producing a truly high quality product for
once.

Boy!  Am I dreaming or what!?!  ;-)

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

Don Hancock (

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Don Hancock ( » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00

    Well, they're not really giving their "product" away.  They STILL sell
Linux at CompUSA, et al. as well as direct.  Where they're making what
little money they're making is in services, contracts, and licensing.
    THAT's where Sierra could learn a lesson: LICENSE out the N3 and GPL
engines.  ALLOW other companies to make 3Do carbodies, tracks, etc. and get
a license fee.  I would STILL wager that the expanded customer base due to
the wider variety of carsets, tracks, etc. would increase their overall
profit for the title.  Imagine an AUTHORIZED F1 (or CART, or SCCA) carset
for N3 (or GPL)?  Imagine your local 1/2mi oval in NL?! And even tho' Sierra
didn't have to spend another PENNY, they could still make 2% off the top for
EVERY COPY SOLD!
    As I've said before (and many have agreed) - I'd pay $20 for another
track pack.  And I'll pay another $20 for the Trucks.  And another $20 for
dirt cars (with tracks).  And maybe even another $20 for Indy-style cars.

differences in body shapes, N3- (or GPL-) native tracks - not those palette
problems...

    I'll believe FOREVER that licensing is where a publisher can make their
money once a product ships.

    And I can assure that it's unlikely that the retail version of Linux is
keeping Red Hat alive.  But nor are they "giving away their product."

Gunner

Don Hancock (

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Don Hancock ( » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00


>If Papy would produce a new sim of GPL quality that would run on
>equipment most of us now have, I would certainly consider paying a
>premium price - $100 to $200 is still a bargain on a per hour basis.
>Think how much an hour a $40 game cost if you dismiss it after only a
>few hours.

    It's not the high cost that would be the problem for the diehards - but
it COULD be a problem to get together $200 at ONCE.  I can pay $40 at a
shot, but the ol' lady would bust a vein if I told her I wanted $200 for ONE
game.  She doesn't realize that I paid $40 for N3.  I'll pay $40 for NL.
I'll pay up to $25 for the trucks.  Then I needed that Force Feedback wheel.
And I had to have that 4-point sound system.  Then I had to have that
4-speaker soundcard.
    So while it wasn't for GPL, I still paid close to a thousand for N3.
But I can assure you, I SERIOUSLY doubt I would pay $200 for N3 - even if it
HAD NL and the Trucks.

Gunner

Chuck Kandle

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Chuck Kandle » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00


> >>   They have a product - it's just that they give it away for free.

> >> That's a buisness model I can admire.

> >Absolutely!!  And there's ample proof it can be profitable as well for
> >the corporation involved.  A model more corporations should follow, I'd
> >say.  And a corporation could definitely make money on a free online
> >racing service.  Just think about it for a minute, and you'll see what I
> >mean.

>     Well, they're not really giving their "product" away.  They STILL sell
> Linux at CompUSA, et al. as well as direct.  Where they're making what
> little money they're making is in services, contracts, and licensing.
>     THAT's where Sierra could learn a lesson: LICENSE out the N3 and GPL
> engines.  ALLOW other companies to make 3Do carbodies, tracks, etc. and get
> a license fee.  I would STILL wager that the expanded customer base due to
> the wider variety of carsets, tracks, etc. would increase their overall
> profit for the title.  Imagine an AUTHORIZED F1 (or CART, or SCCA) carset
> for N3 (or GPL)?  Imagine your local 1/2mi oval in NL?! And even tho' Sierra
> didn't have to spend another PENNY, they could still make 2% off the top for
> EVERY COPY SOLD!
>     As I've said before (and many have agreed) - I'd pay $20 for another
> track pack.  And I'll pay another $20 for the Trucks.  And another $20 for
> dirt cars (with tracks).  And maybe even another $20 for Indy-style cars.
> But I'm not just talking about "custom 3Do's" like I've seen around (the

> differences in body shapes, N3- (or GPL-) native tracks - not those palette
> problems...

>     I'll believe FOREVER that licensing is where a publisher can make their
> money once a product ships.

>     And I can assure that it's unlikely that the retail version of Linux is
> keeping Red Hat alive.  But nor are they "giving away their product."

> Gunner

Don't have a lotta bones about the racing ideas.  Sound good to me.  But
the last segment.....

Rest assured, Linux is *free*.  If you so chose, you could even download
the entire thing off the net & burn it to cd for nothing.  Legally.
What RedHat, and other distributors as well, sells is *tech support* for
the product.  You are in essence buying a warranty that guarantees
you'll get it up & running on your system.  What seems to be keeping
RedHat very much alive is the e***ment that there is soon to be a real
alternative in the O/S world.  And that is not meant as a M$ bash, per
se.  Because it should also have an effect of improving their product
offerings as well, with the consumers being the ultimate winners.

Now, as far as a free online *** service.......Imagine, if you will,
the all-familiar multiplayer screen in N3, NL or even the VROC-style
screen for GPL.  Then imagine the top, say, 20% (arbitrary figure) being
sold as advertising space on either a per-hit or term payment schedule.
Businesses already budget for advertising expenses, so there need not be
any additional outlay there.  And the *** community at large (us)
need not pay either.  Add in an interface "standard" that any ***
company could plug their title into for multiplayer, and the resultant
usage rates should more than pay the bills.

To add cream to the top of this, add the capability of spectator-mode
viewing with the same advertising agenda.  Not only can friends and
family, co-workers, etc. show up & watch the live action, those sitting
on the fence over a particular title may just get prodded into a
purchase also, benefitting the software producers.  One needent*** the
consumer base of a significant portion of their hard-earned paycheck in
order to make money!

--
Chuck Kandler  #70
ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net
K&S Racing
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

Todd Dr

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Todd Dr » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I don't believe they have a product.  I think Mr. Torvalds has a product,
and currently he chooses to allow others to distribute it freely under the
GNU public license which could conceivably change (I'm not suggesting it
will) and where would that leave Red Hat?  Red Hat most definately doesn't
have a product unless you want to consider RPM one.

Great, here's another business model that everybody seems to admire lately.
Let's sell widgets for $1 under cost and make up for it in volume.  It
doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it doesn't add up.  But
then you bring in the "market share", "economies of scale", and "information
value" bullshit and suddenly you've got investors standing in line for this
idea when probably 99.99999% of all of these startups will run out of money
before the value of "market share", "economies of scale", etc. ever kick in,
leaving everybody wondering what went wrong.




> : I wonder what percentage of those buyers are under the illusion that
they
> : are buying Linux.  I don't really think Red Hat falls into the
"interesting
> : business models that won't last" category.  But it's definately way, way
> : overpriced considering they really don't even have a product.

>   They have a product - it's just that they give it away for free.
> That's a buisness model I can admire.

> --
> Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
>     Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
>       Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
>     www:  http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

GraDe

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by GraDe » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Come on, think about, it, you nkow what I maent!!!




> > It hardely cost them $40 to make up my CD did it?
> > Or any other manufactuer at that..... I hate when manufacturers make you
> pay
> > when you they make so much of a profit on my purchase, but "FREE"
updaets
> > would generate more interest.

> It hardly cost them $40 to make up my CD?  What world are you living in?
> What do you think the development costs were?  Geez, some people...

Don Hancock (

How much would people pay for another GPL?

by Don Hancock ( » Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:00:00


>Rest assured, Linux is *free*.  If you so chose, you could even download
>the entire thing off the net & burn it to cd for nothing.  Legally.

    I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't. I certainly understand it's free
(I have a copy coming soon) and can legally be copied, distributed,or
whatever.  What I meant was that Linux is NOT Red Hat's "Crown Jewel."  As
you stated, their tech support and services are their crown jewels.
Therefore, their NOT "giving away their product."  They're actually CHARGING
for their add-on's to it (support, utilities, etc.).  The original poster
was trying to make it sound like Sierra could give away N3 and/or GPL and
still survive.

Gunner


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