rec.autos.simulators

by **Matthew Birger Knutse** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

>> This would
>> probably mean charging $20 for the initial game along with a small amount
>> to play online, and releasing low cost updates on a regular basis over
>> the web such as new tracks, cars, new seasons etc.

>I doubt this philosophy will ever come near to any corporate suits at
>SIERRA, unfortunately.

Well, and you would have no chance in hell getting all the buyers sucked
into this unless you started a really agresseive campaign telling people
this.Would not work, IMO, what works is releasing a good product, and give
us the sequels (although I may feel that the Nascar series have been used
up..but it's a great idea).
Now, the first thing for the "GPL2" would be 1976, and of course, the 19*66*
British Saloon car championship (instead of dem trucks), a few new
tracks....
*pop*
However, I have this feeling we have to do it ourselves. No worries..:)

M

The GPLEA
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Jan Hoviu** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> First thing to discover is how many GPL purchasers play on-line?

> I bought GPL, have played on a local network, but have never played on-line.

> My suggestion would be to develop other equally good sims using the same
> game engine. I would purchase Trans-Am, Can-Am, and other era F1 sims if I
> knew they would be as good as GPL.

> Alan

Alan,

Download WinVROC (or for a start go to vroc.net and access it via the Java
version) and go online a.s.a.p. It really is fantastic. Better: Join a GPL
League and experience what real 'clean' online racing is.
Jan.

J.H.Hovius.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Jan Hoviu** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> GPL just was to "simmy" for its own good....
> ..... alot of peopl here have the obsession that the more difficult it is,
> the mroe real it is, I wish they'd get that out of their head.

I think your wrong here: It is hard because real racing is hard and that's what
GPL is trying to 'simulate'. Once you've 'raced' with GPL every other racing
game pales. I for instance played MGPRS2 and really liked it but at the moment
it is only collecting dust because it simply hasn't got the feel GPL has. Tried
Nascar 3 a couple of times but it simply hasn't got it either: there's no
sensation of speed and you have the feeling you're playing a racing GAME.
I think the 'problem' with GPL is that most people who buy a game want to be
able to master it after one day and be the fastest/best. Since this is simply
impossible with GPL a lot of people quit. I for myself find this however the
main reason to keep racing in GPL. I've never won a race (not even close)
against the AI but am immersively satisfied when I'm able to be consistent and
improve myself.

Just my $0.02

Jan

J.H.Hovius.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Michael** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

This seems the view of a lot of people. I'm surprised. After all we pay
for a lot of things in this way; utilities, cable & satellite TV.

People who enjoy games like football think nothing of paying $30+ every
couple of weeks to support their interest.

I wouldn't propose that people commit to a length of time anyway. They
could pull out and stop paying at any time.

- Michael

by **Michael** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

I think you miss the point - I'm saying that a significant group of
people like GPL the way it is - hard. That group of people, probably only
around 100,000 worldwide is not enough to support the development of a
sim like GPL.

Increasing the price to say, $100 is not the way - you would be denied
shelf space and create a barrier to entry so high that people would not
take the risk of trying the title.

- Michael

by **Michael** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

says...
We are in a similar situation. Our company developed the relatively sim-
like space game Independence War, which sold very well to its target
audience.

Its extremely hard now to get a publisher to commit funding to any title
which does not have mass market appeal. What I am proposing is a way that
a small company like ours could do hard-core titles, and still make
money.

( A few years ago we were thinking of doing a retro racing simulation,
working title "The Golden Age of Racing". We decided it wouldn't sell
enough copies to justify the development:-) When we found out that
Papyrus were doing something similar we were very surprised, but pleased.
)

- Michael

by **Sebastien Tixie** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> > I would've paid what I had to to get GPL but I wouldn't subscribe. I don't
> > like committing to monthly payments.

> This seems the view of a lot of people. I'm surprised. After all we pay
> for a lot of things in this way; utilities, cable & satellite TV.

well, tv, internet, offer constent services, lot of stuff that changes
continually, so
we pay this news stuff that we see/use every day. I don't think a game could
do this, REALLY NEW stuff every month ! Impossible.

When i buy a game, i don't want to pay monthly, otherwise its call rent.
You can rent a car, or buy a car, what do you prefer ?, what is the most
expensive in long-term ?

It's will be okey for me, to buy a game, then buy add-ons ( if i wanted to ), but

not pay-to-play on internet ! i'm going to have internet at home ONLY because
i can now have cable internet, i don't like modem because , it's not inclusive
price.

--
==============================================================================
Sebastien Tixier - Game Developer

http://www.eden-studios.fr
http://www.vrally.com
http://www.multimania.com/hclyon
==============================================================================

by **Joel Willstei** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Michael,

In one word : No !!!

I'll pay what they want for the original release if it meets my needs.
I'll pay for expansion pack if its something I want. But I won't continually
pay for every single upgrade to come along. $20 for a patch.

I can just see some companies making a living out of patches. Release a
really great sim,but loaded with bugs. Then patch after patch every few
months to correct the problems they left in on purpose. Throw in a new track
or carset every so often to keep us happy. But end up paying literally
hundreds for a sim. No thanks.

And just what do you think they would do to sites like the USPits with
its multitude of upgrades and ad ons ?

Joel Willstein

by **Michael Barlo** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> > I would've paid what I had to to get GPL but I wouldn't subscribe. I don't
> > like committing to monthly payments.

> This seems the view of a lot of people. I'm surprised. After all we pay
> for a lot of things in this way; utilities, cable & satellite TV.

> People who enjoy games like football think nothing of paying $30+ every
> couple of weeks to support their interest.

> I wouldn't propose that people commit to a length of time anyway. They
> could pull out and stop paying at any time.

> - Michael

Or we could stop subscribing to that service and start our own free
service :)

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/

Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

by **Chuck Kandle** » Thu, 16 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> > I would've paid what I had to to get GPL but I wouldn't subscribe. I don't
> > like committing to monthly payments.

> This seems the view of a lot of people. I'm surprised. After all we pay
> for a lot of things in this way;

Maybe *you* do. I do only when I have to. And I won't pay to race
online, period.

Yep. No choice here.

Nope & nope. Don't have em, don't need em.

No car payments either. Buy my cars cash, older ones. Too bad I
couldn't afford to get my home cash. ;-)

Nope. Go to 2 races a year, the Detroit Grand Prix (Free Prix Day), and
at Michigan Speedway (Neighbor of mine gets tickets for free where he
works).

No problem. Count me out at the beginning. I won't pay to play.

--
Chuck Kandler #70
ChuckK or KS70 on Won.net
K&S Racing
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/thepits/195
The box said "Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX!

by **Joel Willstei** » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Michael,

I the number of GPL sales is closer to 40-50,000.

Joel Willstein

by **Todd Dr** » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

It hardly cost them $40 to make up my CD? What world are you living in?
What do you think the development costs were? Geez, some people...

by **Todd Dr** » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

Then you may not race online in the future. Simple reality is that nothing
is free although somehow a whole lot of people seem to think so, including
some interesting business models that will not last. But back to the point,
everything has a cost and the cost + a profit margin must be passed to the
final consumer or the whole project is a big waste of time for everyone
involved.

by **Todd Dr** » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

At this time I would pay $250 or more for a great modern F1 sim without even
thinking about it. The key word, however, is "great". It would have to be
"great" right out of the box. Not promising, but bug-ridden. Not
exhibiting tons of potential, but absolutely "great". I would also pay some
fee for updates (patches wouldn't be necessary since the sim was "great"
right out of the box). In fact I think a lot of software companies are
missing the boat on the updates thing. It's a potential revenue bonanza
since they don't have to invest in "version 2" costs like artwork, manuals,
boxes, etc.. they can bypass the distributor channel and take full retail
selling direct from their website. As far as the monthly online fee thing
goes, at this time I wouldn't be interested, but I suspect that it will
eventually be a necessary evil.

by **Todd Dr** » Fri, 17 Dec 1999 04:00:00

> > > Maybe *you* do. I do only when I have to. And I won't pay to race
> > > online, period.

> > Then you may not race online in the future. Simple reality is that
nothing
> > is free although somehow a whole lot of people seem to think so,
including
> > some interesting business models that will not last. But back to the
point,
> > everything has a cost and the cost + a profit margin must be passed to
the
> > final consumer or the whole project is a big waste of time for everyone
> > involved.

> Agreed. Although first they must find a sizable customer base to
> support core costs, never mind any profit margin. Failing that, and *A
> LOT* of people will refuse to pay to race, it still becomes a waste of
> time. For the developers anyway. I refuse to let those that wage
> corporate greed on the populace ***my pocketbook. It won't happen.

> And as far as "interesting business models that won't last", you may
> want to look at RedHat's latest stock price. For selling a free O/S,
> their initial offering a few months ago of $15 a share is now at $245.75
> a share. Go figure, huh? ;-)

I wonder what percentage of those buyers are under the illusion that they
are buying Linux. I don't really think Red Hat falls into the "interesting
business models that won't last" category. But it's definately way, way
overpriced considering they really don't even have a product.

rec.autos.simulators

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?

How much would people pay for another GPL?