rec.autos.simulators

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

Bruce Kennewel

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

(snip)
(unsnip)

This commitment alone gives cause for great expectations. Although the hour
of rejoicing is not yet to hand, optimism has pushed aside the grey veil of
pessimism and although this is not the end, nor even the beginning of the
end, it is surely the end of the beginning. (Apologies to Sir Winston
Churchill).

Shall we be saying, in the not too distant future, "the King is dead, long
live the King"?
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------



Gregor Vebl

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Gregor Vebl » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00


> You're not downloading it from a mirror server, are you?

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------



> > But why are the graphics on the car backwards, and the graphics on the
> > advertising signs along the track correct?
> > Bill Yowell

Ummmmph... ROTFLOL....!!!!

Now if I can just get the coffee out of the keyboard....

-Gregor

Joel Willstei

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Joel Willstei » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

Mrar,

     Thanks for your impressions and comments. WSC just might turn out to be
the one sim we can build on on for years to come.  And just maybe it will be
the answer down the road for a modern Cart sim.

Joel Willstein



> Because of the code not being fully optimized, I feel I can't make an
honest
> assessment.  My remarks about WSC's future success is purely speculative.

> However, Chris pointed out a few other areas (throttle and brake response)
> they hope to have finished within a few weeks (minor stuff)...Because of
> this, the car felt a bit sluggish, but realistic in motion...The alpha was
> more about showing off what they plan to have in the sim, even if each
item
> wasn't 100% active.  The ability to grab sections of the screen for
forward
> and side views - for the use of multiple monitors for example - was way
cool.

> What impressed me the most, was that WSC's preponderate ability to
> configure/edit anything you want  - physics, graphics, models, all except
the
> exe - makes for an excellent 'brown-bag' sim...One that can be WSC, Trans
Am,
> CART, or whatever...

> Chris and Tony also stressed that future support (add-ons and such) for
WSC
> will be for years - not months or weeks (or even at all) like in other
> sims/games.  This probably isn't something Empire has planned, but
something
> the West Bros. want to put back into the sim communities hands.  They're
> perfectly willing to support the sim on their own time if need be -
something
> they've pretty much done anyway for the two years until Empire picked them
> up.  =)

> Cheers!
> Marc


> > Marc,

> >      What was your honest impression of driving a lap at Monza ?  Is WSC
> > really all that they say ?  Are we finally looking at the next step
after
> > GPL?

> > Joel Willstien


David L. Coo

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by David L. Coo » Tue, 16 May 2000 04:00:00

One thing I picked up on this weekend while watching the N4 lap around
C***te regarding physics - and what I believe we are all after...

It doesn't really matter if a sim models correct physics if that information
is not passed to the user (driver).  Example:  Rally Championship - From
outside the***pit the cars *look* like they are handling properly.  The
suspension is moving with every little bump in the road.  From within the
car though IMHO, the "feeling" is not there.

I can't believe I just picked up on this but here is my observation:  In GPL
(and forthcoming N4) the drivers viewpoint is fixed and the cars move on
their suspension - up, down, left and right to a certain degree.  Because my
"eyes" are staionary, the movement gives the sensation of "reality".  If
though, as in RC the "eyes" move with the car, there is no sensation (or it
is very diminished).

After watching the gameplay footage of WSC I started having flashbacks to
RC.  Great looking physics on the outside - but how will it feel from the
***pit?  The key IMHO is "in the eye of the beholder".  Keep my eyes
stationary while my World Sports Car moves around on its suspension, and we
will have a hit.  OTOH - move my eyes with the car, and we will have just
another pretty face in the crowd of racing titles attempting to match what
has to date only been figured out by David Kaemmer and Papyrus.

Opinions?

--David Cook


> Mrar,

>      Thanks for your impressions and comments. WSC just might turn out to
be
> the one sim we can build on on for years to come.  And just maybe it will
be
> the answer down the road for a modern Cart sim.

> Joel Willstein



> > Because of the code not being fully optimized, I feel I can't make an
> honest
> > assessment.  My remarks about WSC's future success is purely
speculative.

> > However, Chris pointed out a few other areas (throttle and brake
response)
> > they hope to have finished within a few weeks (minor stuff)...Because of
> > this, the car felt a bit sluggish, but realistic in motion...The alpha
was
> > more about showing off what they plan to have in the sim, even if each
> item
> > wasn't 100% active.  The ability to grab sections of the screen for
> forward
> > and side views - for the use of multiple monitors for example - was way
> cool.

> > What impressed me the most, was that WSC's preponderate ability to
> > configure/edit anything you want  - physics, graphics, models, all
except
> the
> > exe - makes for an excellent 'brown-bag' sim...One that can be WSC,
Trans
> Am,
> > CART, or whatever...

> > Chris and Tony also stressed that future support (add-ons and such) for
> WSC
> > will be for years - not months or weeks (or even at all) like in other
> > sims/games.  This probably isn't something Empire has planned, but
> something
> > the West Bros. want to put back into the sim communities hands.  They're
> > perfectly willing to support the sim on their own time if need be -
> something
> > they've pretty much done anyway for the two years until Empire picked
them
> > up.  =)

> > Cheers!
> > Marc


> > > Marc,

> > >      What was your honest impression of driving a lap at Monza ?  Is
WSC
> > > really all that they say ?  Are we finally looking at the next step
> after
> > > GPL?

> > > Joel Willstien


Marc J. Nelso

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Marc J. Nelso » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00


> OTOH - move my eyes with the car, and we will have just
> another pretty face in the crowd of racing titles attempting to match what
> has to date only been figured out by David Kaemmer and Papyrus.

> Opinions?

Former Papysian Matt Sentel said David Kaemmer was impressed with WSC.  If true,
says a lot.

Cheers!
Marc

Marc J. Nelso

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Marc J. Nelso » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

Those details, unimportant until the major stuff is addressed, will be corrected.

Cheers!
Marc


> But why are the graphics on the car backwards, and the graphics on the
> advertising signs along the track correct?
> Bill Yowell

David Kar

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by David Kar » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

This morning my right shoe was impressed with a bit of doggy doo.

(JOKE!--just had to toss that in . . .)

--DK




> > OTOH - move my eyes with the car, and we will have just
> > another pretty face in the crowd of racing titles attempting to match
what
> > has to date only been figured out by David Kaemmer and Papyrus.

> > Opinions?

> Former Papysian Matt Sentel said David Kaemmer was impressed with WSC.  If
true,
> says a lot.

> Cheers!
> Marc

evente..

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by evente.. » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00



[snip]

Now this, more than almost anything else, makes me absolutely drool for
this sim!  It's about damn time someone besides the big FPS developers
realized the value of developing a quality game engine and giving
support to 3rd party mod authors.  WSC could really be the holy grail of
racing sims.  Lets hope that doesn't also mean nobody ever finds it ;)!

Kendt

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Vintoo

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Vintoo » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

if the game includes a good scalability option to change it from full sim to
arcade and if it lives up the hype then it could capture the whole sim
community as well as the arcade types(who would gradually turn into
sim-heads like us!).

Vintook




> [snip]

> > What impressed me the most, was that WSC's preponderate ability to
> > configure/edit anything you want  - physics, graphics, models, all
> except the
> > exe - makes for an excellent 'brown-bag' sim...One that can be WSC,
> Trans Am,
> > CART, or whatever...

> > Chris and Tony also stressed that future support (add-ons and such)
> for WSC
> > will be for years - not months or weeks (or even at all) like in other
> > sims/games.  This probably isn't something Empire has planned, but
> something
> > the West Bros. want to put back into the sim communities hands.
> They're
> > perfectly willing to support the sim on their own time if need be -
> something
> > they've pretty much done anyway for the two years until Empire picked
> them
> > up.  =)

> Now this, more than almost anything else, makes me absolutely drool for
> this sim!  It's about damn time someone besides the big FPS developers
> realized the value of developing a quality game engine and giving
> support to 3rd party mod authors.  WSC could really be the holy grail of
> racing sims.  Lets hope that doesn't also mean nobody ever finds it ;)!

> Kendt

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

David L. Coo

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by David L. Coo » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

I just got an e-mail from Chris West regarding this thread -


Hi David,

I saw your posts on ras and the Simracingnews forum. Thats an interesting theory
you have there. I currently have it working both ways, with a completely locked
camera, and one which allows the car to move, I prefer the second view, since as
you say it communicates what the car is doing a little more.

Chris


>One thing I picked up on this weekend while watching the N4 lap around
>C***te regarding physics - and what I believe we are all after...

>It doesn't really matter if a sim models correct physics if that information
>is not passed to the user (driver).  Example:  Rally Championship - From
>outside the***pit the cars *look* like they are handling properly.  The
>suspension is moving with every little bump in the road.  From within the
>car though IMHO, the "feeling" is not there.

>I can't believe I just picked up on this but here is my observation:  In GPL
>(and forthcoming N4) the drivers viewpoint is fixed and the cars move on
>their suspension - up, down, left and right to a certain degree.  Because my
>"eyes" are staionary, the movement gives the sensation of "reality".  If
>though, as in RC the "eyes" move with the car, there is no sensation (or it
>is very diminished).

Ronald Stoeh

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Ronald Stoeh » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00


> You're not downloading it from a mirror server, are you?

But then they would be correct on the cars, and backwards on
the ad signs...???

> --
> Regards,
> Bruce Kennewell,
> Canberra, Australia.
> ---------------------------



> > But why are the graphics on the car backwards, and the graphics on the
> > advertising signs along the track correct?
> > Bill Yowell

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

David Kar

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by David Kar » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

chuckle. . .



> > You're not downloading it from a mirror server, are you?

> But then they would be correct on the cars, and backwards on
> the ad signs...???

Pat Dotso

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Pat Dotso » Wed, 17 May 2000 04:00:00

Holy ****.  You mean the West's would even consider
releasing it without a moving POV in the***pit?  
Having a locked down view as an option is OK, but
come on!  When I first read you post, David, I
thought "duh, that's obvious" :)  I've discussed
it here lots of times.

BTW, I think GPL does the opposite
of your description in that the POV moves about in
reaction to G-forces, while the***pit does it's
own 6-degrees-of-freedom thing.

A moving 3D***pit is a necessity to anything that
claims to be a sim in the 21st century.  I think GPL
and F12K are the only two car sims that have it (except
for SODA).  F12K is even disappointing in that it only
moves fore-aft.  No lateral forces affect the POV.

The right way to do the drivers POV is to model it as
a point with mass suspended on a 3-dimensional spring
system.  The mass of the point should move in reaction
to any G-forces created by movement of the car.  The
spring forces suspending the point should be adjusted
to limit POV movement to roughly that of a real driver.

--
Pat Dotson


> I just got an e-mail from Chris West regarding this thread -


> Hi David,

> I saw your posts on ras and the Simracingnews forum. Thats an interesting theory
> you have there. I currently have it working both ways, with a completely locked
> camera, and one which allows the car to move, I prefer the second view, since as
> you say it communicates what the car is doing a little more.

> Chris


> >One thing I picked up on this weekend while watching the N4 lap around
> >C***te regarding physics - and what I believe we are all after...

> >It doesn't really matter if a sim models correct physics if that information
> >is not passed to the user (driver).  Example:  Rally Championship - From
> >outside the***pit the cars *look* like they are handling properly.  The
> >suspension is moving with every little bump in the road.  From within the
> >car though IMHO, the "feeling" is not there.

> >I can't believe I just picked up on this but here is my observation:  In GPL
> >(and forthcoming N4) the drivers viewpoint is fixed and the cars move on
> >their suspension - up, down, left and right to a certain degree.  Because my
> >"eyes" are staionary, the movement gives the sensation of "reality".  If
> >though, as in RC the "eyes" move with the car, there is no sensation (or it
> >is very diminished).

Bruce Kennewel

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Bruce Kennewel » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00

Not necessarily.
In the northern hemisphere it could be the other way round, due in no small
part to the Haig Effect, not to mention the Johnnie Walker Effect, the
Glenfiddich Effect and the Chivas Regal Effect.

So there!

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------



> > You're not downloading it from a mirror server, are you?

> But then they would be correct on the cars, and backwards on
> the ad signs...???

> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------



> > > But why are the graphics on the car backwards, and the graphics on the
> > > advertising signs along the track correct?
> > > Bill Yowell

> --
> l8er
> ronny

> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> to take effect. Reboot now?
>           |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
>    ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
>         |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
>        '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Goy Larse

World Sports Cars Gameplay Footage

by Goy Larse » Thu, 18 May 2000 04:00:00


> Not necessarily.
> In the northern hemisphere it could be the other way round, due in no small
> part to the Haig Effect, not to mention the Johnnie Walker Effect, the
> Glenfiddich Effect and the Chivas Regal Effect.

Personally I prefer the "Captain Morgan" effect......, or if I'm lucky
enough to get hold of the major ingredient, the "Stroh Inlander Rum"
(SP) effect...:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com


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