rec.autos.simulators

I know that Grand Prix Legends and F1 Challenge 99 - 02 are supposed to be
great sims for the PC, but where on Earth can you buy them? I don't like /
trust Ebay. If I could just go to ebgames and buy it for $50 that would be
great. I've also read good things about Nascar 2003. I don't like Nascar,
but I've read Nascar2003 is good and has lots of mods... if N2003 = Nascar
2003. You guys use lots of acronyms that I have trouble deciphering.

Somehow I've been able to find some good web sites ...

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

They are informative, but there should really be some kind of sim racing
FAQ.

I guess my questions are ...

What are some great, moddable racing sims that you can play over the
internet and actually AVAILABLE for sale in the U.S.? (Non-NASCAR)

What hotly anticipated sims are coming out soon other than GT-R?

I plan to buy the Logitech Momo wheel. Any reason I should avoid it?

I bought F1 2001 today (for three dollars). Does it still have a following?

Can you buy Richard Burns Rally in the U.S.?

Is there any way to play European racing sims in the U.S.? In other words,
are they region restricted? Will anyone sell them to us in the U.S.?

Thanks for any info.

N2003 = NASCAR Racing 2003 Season by Papyrus, sometimes also abbreviated
NR2003S

You should be able to find a store selling Grand Prix Legends (GPL) with a
google search.  Here's one:

http://www.dirtcheapsoftware.com/grprlesi.html

I've never ordered from them, though, so I won't recommend them one way or
the other.

F1 Challenge 99 - 02 (F1C) might be more challenging to find because EA
Sports never reprinted it in a bargain format.  There seems to have been
only a limited number printed, and eBay is about the only place where copies
can be found; it often sells for over $50.  A good alternative would be F1
2002, which was printed in much higher numbers and had some good mods
created for it that might still be available if you know where to look.

Be sure to look at these sites:

http://www.rscnet.org/  Be sure to check the forums for lots of important
info on GPL (and other sims, too).  For someone just starting out in sims I
would recommend the GPL '65 mod over the standard '67 GPL.  The '67 cars
have too much power for the available grip, making them very frustrating for
beginners.

http://www.theuspits.com/  probably the best N2003 mod site, including the
TPTCC mod and the Ferarri 330 mod.  TPTCC includes four different roadracing
body styles (Ford GT, Mustang, Corvette, and Viper) and uses the 'papy trans
am' physics, which modifies the standard NASCAR physics to make the cars
more suitable for road racing.

I think N2003 is the best thing going right now.  The mods have taken it
beyond NASCAR-style oval racing, and there is a huge number of tracks,
including road courses, available.

The creator of GPL and N2003 has started a new company with help from the
owner of the Boston Red Sox, but nobody knows exactly what he's planning to
do, other than it has something to do with racing simulation.

Unfortunately, there are not as many options available in the wheel market
as there used to be.  The Momo has undergone many changes over the years and
I don't know how good the current model is.  I have one of the older red
ones, and it is quite good.  A search in on of the bigger forums should
provide lots of good information.

It was largely superseded by F1 2002, and then F1C, but it did have a great
GTR mod.  I have no idea if it's still available (That was the first effort
by the guys making the new GTR sim.)  It was mostly an offline sim anyway,
so if that's what you want, a small community is not a big problem.  There
isn't much (any) new stuff being made for it, and the old stuff might be
hard to find.  Ask in the forums at rscnet.org or
http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forum/index.php

One option is http://www.gogamer.com/  There may be better ones.

There should be no problems with using imported PC software.

If you want to get involved in online racing a good place to start is the
VROCF2 club, which has a Yahoo group
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/vroc-f2/

Hope this helps,
Scott Spahr

  <shrug>  Used eBay for years and years.  Not one problem.

The forums at Racesimcentral also contain a wealth of information if you're
willing to trawl for it. http://www.racesimcentral.net/

None, really, Grand Prix Legends (apart from the graphics add-ons and
tracks) has only one mod to date (the '65 mod), with some more in
development. GPL is all but abandonware nowadays and I'm sure that if you
ask around a friendly simmer near you will get you set up. If not, publisher
"Sold Out" still sells GPL for about $5.

F1 Challenge '99-02 has a lot of great mods, but online play is a little
suspect and availability is not great. Like I posted some two weeks back, I
noticed two copies at a local superstore. If you're willing to re-imburse me
the 10,- Euro asking price + postage (i.e. send me $15 via mail once you
receive it), I'm willing to go back and pick it up for you if they still
have it. Warning: included "manual" (read leaflet explaining the menus) may
be in Dutch.

You really should give NR2003 (Nascar Racing 2003 Season by Sierra-Papyrus)
a go. Not only is it still available from places like amazon.com, but there
are some mods being made. Although most non-NASCAR series still suffer from
the setup restrictions imposed by the game.

That said, it would be a mistake to dismiss oval racing using NR2003
outright. Thousands of racesimmers pounding around virtual ovals every week
can't be wrong. There is a certain something (and nearly infinate challenge)
to oval racing. It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't taken 5 laps of
Huntsville to pass another driver, but just get into it and you'll see what
we're on about. Which is Juan Pablo Montoya was understating things just a
bit when he said (about racing at Indy): "it's only four corners... how hard
can it be?"

Did you know this group hosts its own (predominately oval) racing series
using NR2003? Go to http://www.racesimcentral.net/
information.

Also look at community efforts like "Racer" and NetKar.

Live for Speed (http://www.racesimcentral.net/) is gearing up for its "S2"
release. No mod scene attached, but a good racing experience (even online,
with the right people) nevertheless. To be sampled at least.

rFactor (http://www.racesimcentral.net/) is heavily relying on a mod community
forming around it. Multiplayer demo reported to appear soon.

Then there's the project based on Dave Keammer's sponsored buy-out of
Papyrus source code (http://www.racesimcentral.net/). An idea similar to
West-Racing's Racing Legends, but with the added assurance our boy Dave
will, given 3 years, come up with something more tangible than a couple of
renders of a team transporter.

On the more "fun/arcade but still worth playing" side I'm looking forward to
Flat Out by Bugbear (of Rally Trophy fame) and World Racing 2 by Synetic (of
Mercedes Benz Truck and World Racing fame).

I guess it's the best of the current crop, but oldtimers will recommend
either an Act Labs Force RS, a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback or an
"original" Logitech MOMO wheel (which are no longer being made).

Apart from buying a high end non-FF wheel (TSW/ECCI/BRD) or waiting for the
BRD FF wheel, it's the best one going.

Eeeek... $3 down the drain, I'm afraid.

No, but several vendors ship to the US. See other replies or search the
group for details. RBR, IMO, is an ideal beginner's sim, as it works really
well with the majority of controllers right of the box. Papyrus (GPL/NRx)
and ISI (F1C) sims require a lot of tweaking and some manual editing of
files to get "right".

No racing sims I know of are regionalised. Americans/Canadians race on
various European servers (and vise versa) without any problems at all
(Papyrus sims and LFS).

Thank you for checkng out our genre. I know it's *** novices, but, if
one's open to it, help, support and a lasting challenge are at hand. I hope
you enjoy your voyage of discovery.

Jan.
=---

F1C and N2003 are what you need right now. A GTP mod is coming out soon for
N2003 which looks fantastic.

GTR is to be released in early 2005. rFactor is also coming out soon which
is ISI's latest (maker of F1C, GTR uses an improved F1C game engine).
rFactor will have the latest ISI game engine, and will be highly moddable.
http://www.rfactor.net/

--
David G Fisher

I understand his reluctance.  I've used ebay 3 times and got screwed twice.

twice.

    Interesting.   Not once in almost seven years here.  Over a thousand
transactions.   Just takes a minute or two of research before bidding,
selling, etc. if one is worried.

    IS there still people playing this game?  I still have it installed, and
since I am in Central USA, I never see anyone on the servers (using the
website that lists servers and drivers (no I dont have th elink here at
work))...

I ssumed it was a dead duck, and soI  race solely offline...  I still just
love the ferrari gto the best.

Juan Vizoso enlightened us with:

You can download the game and play online and offline one Track and three
different cars freely.

One Tip: Try to get some good Beginners-Setups for the cars and you will
have much fun.

Daniel

   If you want to see if there are any servers up and running Netkar , you
should try using the  nkDaemon server list application (downloadable from
the netkar site) .. ,but you are right , living in the states I would
surmise that the pings to the one or two european servers running would be
too high, but give it a go! Probably best to give it a try on a weekend at a
'european friendly time' ...... hehe the ferrari gto would handle a lot
better if they had actually fitted the proper double width rear tyres on in
the sim :-) .. I know they meant to .. but it slipped under the radar!    jv

Thanks Juan,

    Glad to read there are others, I had 3 guys vanish off the net I raced
it with, and dont see to many others like i already said.  Hehehee, yeah now
that Im engaged again, I dont have the 20 hours in a day on the computer
weekends anymore, dont miss it that much though LOL.  I read some google
converted site (drivingitalia?) about they were possibly working on
something new?  Translation left lots to be desired of course.

Juan Vizoso enlightened us with:

[snip tons of useful stuff]

Needs a few more helpful guys like you around here Jan - nice response :)

Regards

I ordered the Logitech MOMO wheel. It should be here Friday.

I downloaded and played Live For Speed. OMG! It's so effing sweet! I'm only
able to play it with the mouse, but it's still good. One complaint: It would
be nice if they used licensed car manufacturers.

Of course, the demo for GTR has been a blast as well, but using the keyboard
sucks. The sound on that game is unreal. I'll get Nascar 2003 eventually,
I'm sure. It's pretty cheap and available.

Jan: Okay, I'll try racing an oval. I'm sure it's more challenging than Juan
Montoya thinks.

Thanks again.

Chuck.