rec.autos.simulators

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

amos-opu

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by amos-opu » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00

Hey,

even later cars slid(drifted) alot...remember Villeneuve '79, zandvoort?

Sudesh


> The biggest and really only reason why I didn't stay with GPL longer is
> because when I watched video of the real '67 F1 cars (and even older cars),
> they didn't slide like they do in GPL. Even in the rain, the drivers seemed
> to be able to hold the drive line. The AI cars in GPL resemble what I've
> seen on TV.

> David G Fisher



> >   This is a bit of a stretch...but....

> >   I watched the Speedvision special called "Victory by Design" which is
> > essentially a fluff piece by Alan DeCadney about all the various Porche
> > racing cars. (he also did one on Ferrari...lucky sot...gets to drive
> > dozens of Prancing Ponies and Stuttgarde vondercars)
> >   Anyhow, the show got to the part about the 917's, those glorious
> > Le Mans type racers of the eary 70's.  Now I'm pretty sure they didn't
> > have ground effects yet...and one of it's drivers(Brian Redman) was
> > quoted in a magazine saying the 917 was a HUGELY unstable racer...fast
> > but twitchy...hmmm where was I?   OH yes...917's and why GPL cars did
> > indeed slide.
> >   They showed some footage of the 917 going up through Eau Rouge at Spa.
> > on one paticular lap the driver had the car sliding all the way up the
> > hill, he only caught it just before the track turned back to the left at
> > the top.  Now this 917 had an aerodynamic nose which had to produce SOME
> > sort of downforce and a couple of horizontal tail fins on the rear.
> > These too must have contributed to the downforce effect.  Yet the car
> > was sliding all the way up the hill.
> >   Now if a 917 with at least some semblance of an aero package can
> > slip and slide around corners, why is it hard for some of us to beleive
> > the non-winged, non-aero'd, non-groundeffects cars of 1967 slipped all
> > over too?
> > dave henrie

ymenar

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by ymenar » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00


I'm not sure if you can consider Villeneuve in the same category in terms of
car handling than any other F1 driver.  He was just unique, and I feel it's
too easy to include this as an argument against David crusade (which he
still can't figure out after we gave him facts and backup of those facts
with other facts).  Let's make our job a little harder ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Richard Walke

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by Richard Walke » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00

On Tue, 23 May 2000 18:42:15 -0400, "Alex Kihurani"

A couple of quotes from Jim Clark on the Lotus 49:

"We could have accelerated the opposition from the corners even though we
could not make much use of the great power we had in the corners. The car
was still too twitchy."

"The Lotus 49 has probably more power in relation to its weight than any
pure road-racing car ever, so naturally it's going to take a bit of getting
used to. With that amount of power and the light weight things happen
bloddy quickly"

Those are from Eric Dymoke's book, "Jim Clark", as is the following extract
(quotes in the extract are Jim again):

'The sudden loss of grip in a corner, "....especially if you're in a bit of
an attitude", (a Clark euphemism for sliding the car in a controlled way
through a bend) was potentially dangerous. At Zandvoort comping on to the
straight where the track was oily, when the engine reached 6,500rpm in 4th
gear the back wheels began to over-speed and the car was squirming all the
way down the track with the tail wagging from side to side. "It was quite
alarming, I was going down the straight swinging the steering from one side
to the other trying to keep the car on the road"'

Cheers,
Richard

Richard Walke

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by Richard Walke » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00



Your eyes are deceiving you. Try reading "The Racing Driver" by Denis
Jenkinson or "The Technique of Motor Racing" by Piero Taruffi to find out
how those cars were really driven. Then go back and really watch what is
happening.

Cheers,
Richard

Dave Henri

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by Dave Henri » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00


> Your eyes are deceiving you. Try reading "The Racing Driver" by Denis
> Jenkinson or "The Technique of Motor Racing" by Piero Taruffi to find out
> how those cars were really driven. Then go back and really watch what is
> happening.

> Cheers,
> Richard

   Yes, reach out with your feelings.  Your eyes can mislead you, don't
trust them.  Use the force Luke.
dave henrie
Scott B. Huste

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by Scott B. Huste » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00

Bingo Frank <VBG>

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com



> > The biggest and really only reason why I didn't stay with GPL longer is
> > because when I watched video of the real '67 F1 cars

> What video?  Please name them David.

> Be sure that in the videos I have of 1967 they get into major powerslides
> and do indeed race like the AI, which is a balance between neutral feeling
> and sliding.  Much more than in modern racing of course.  Still, sliding
is
> not the fastest way to be constantly fast in GPL, and it's proven when you
> check out online drivers compared to hotlappers.  But we all know that you
> have a misledding experience of GPL multiplayer racing David.  Of course
> hotlapping techniques couldn't be achieved by real-life drivers for
obvious
> reasons and that is why you are misled into thinking that the cars in GPL
> slide too much.  It's just that no human beeing would have the balls to do
> that.  The numbers of times that any of us got killed in GPL is enormous.

> Those F1 drivers were the best and could achieve incredibly fast laptimes
> and at the same time keep those over-powered cars the most neutral
possible.

> -- How hard is it to understand? And if you don't like the sliding effect,
> friggin tweak the car!
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.WeRace.net
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Scott B. Huste

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by Scott B. Huste » Thu, 25 May 2000 04:00:00

Hello?  40's and 50's cars were NEUTRAL ???   LOL   I suggest you read some
of the books written by the drivers of those periods <VBG>

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ #4395450

Editor in Chief
PowerSims.com


Stephen Ferguso

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by Stephen Ferguso » Fri, 26 May 2000 04:00:00

Just pick up any Classic car magazine and thumb through it.  The 50s cars
had their asses wayyyyy out there.  The picture of Fangio at Argentina comes
to mind.  Hawthorne used to get his buggies to the most ludicrous angle,
then hold them there with a grimace on his face, his bow-tied upper body
leaning way into the corner.  A few months ago there was even a great
picture of Chris Amon emulating the famous Fangio picture during qualifying
at Rouen in '68 (?) with his winged car pointing towards the photographers
on the infield, rather than down the road.

Stephen



wrote

> >Even the cars of the 50's and 40's seemed to be able to stay neutral.

> Your eyes are deceiving you. Try reading "The Racing Driver" by Denis
> Jenkinson or "The Technique of Motor Racing" by Piero Taruffi to find out
> how those cars were really driven. Then go back and really watch what is
> happening.

> Cheers,
> Richard

Eldre

fuzzy logic why GPL cars slide

by Eldre » Sun, 28 May 2000 04:00:00



>Hey,

>even later cars slid(drifted) alot...remember Villeneuve '79, zandvoort?

Or CART - Vancouver, 1999?
<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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