rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 20 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez
downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked here
at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere).

From the Papy.com website:

The NASCAR? Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing? 3,
NASCAR? Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR? Racing 3 Craftsman Truck
Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price.

Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this format?
Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the patches
aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and
great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount titles?
Something doesn't make sense here?

I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have to
pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine, but
as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already?

Marc.

--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins

Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and
blame them on other computers.
****************************************************************************

by **don hodgdo** » Mon, 20 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Well Marc, I guess you just have to chalk it up to marketing. Selling ***
software is a lot like selling music cds, once your core market has
purchased their copies, sales tend to flatten out. Now in the case of music,
you can release another single and hope sales pick up again, but, in the
case of computer software, you can repackage it or give up and start working
on the sequel. Most of us bought our copies when they were released and will
probably do it again, but if Sierra can make a little more money off the
title and use it to finance future Papy projects (N4, GPL2 or a CART
title...please!), then I have no problem with it, which is not to say I will
buy it<g>.

--
don

"Getting hit by a meteorite is an accident...
everything else is driver-error."

****************************************************************************

> Marc Collins

> Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and
> blame them on other computers.

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Tony Rickar** » Mon, 20 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Papy were criticised for milking Indycar - remember (older RAS members!) the
initial 8 tracks
were included in the original. Then 8 more in an expansion pack. Then
Indianapolis & the paint kit.

Pehaps if GPL had followed this trend - new cars & track packs - each
with updated features such as FF, D3D support, a Vroc type client - then I
think a lot of this group would have been happy.

by **ymenar** » Mon, 20 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Why so? I do hope I never go in business with you. It's called demand and
offer. Every company in the world does that. When the curve for the demand
starts to slow down, they try to catch the most of it by lowering the offer,
thus the price of it or adding extra features.

I mean, haven't people learned a little with all the years? ;)

Papyrus has done that for a good portion of their titles. Expansion pack,
creating 1 package for several of their titles (Nascar 50th Anniversary
Edition).

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Cliff Roma** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Nothing is different here than any other title.

The games will always be at full price when they are first released and then
the prices will come down. I remember buying Diablo for $50 and then only
one week later after it came out, there were specials for $30.

They now have 3 products under the current system (N3, NL and the CTS) and I
think it is great that they are offering all three for a group price.

When you say "I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have
to pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter". What are they
supposed to do? Raise the price? Or are they supposed to sell the
Acceleration Pack for $120? I have had the joy of playing N3 for the last
however many months since it came out. If they would have said "you can pay
$50 now, or wait 7 months and pay $20", I would not have done in. I still
would have given them my $50

****************************************************************************

> Marc Collins

> Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and
> blame them on other computers.

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Marc Collin** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I agree generally with your point...but when the patches haven't even been
released yet, it certainly makes me pause to think. It may be inevitable
given the publishing/remaindering practices that are common, but it is still
not a good way to treat your best customers. And until N4 is out, N3 and NL
are still the current products. As an example, I am thrilled that GPL has
been "re-released" in the bargain bin. I would not have been thrilled had
it happened just a few months after its release.

Marc.

> Nothing is different here than any other title.

> The games will always be at full price when they are first released and
then
> the prices will come down. I remember buying Diablo for $50 and then only
> one week later after it came out, there were specials for $30.

> They now have 3 products under the current system (N3, NL and the CTS) and
I
> think it is great that they are offering all three for a group price.

> When you say "I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to
have
> to pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter". What are they
> supposed to do? Raise the price? Or are they supposed to sell the
> Acceleration Pack for $120? I have had the joy of playing N3 for the last
> however many months since it came out. If they would have said "you can
pay
> $50 now, or wait 7 months and pay $20", I would not have done in. I still
> would have given them my $50

> > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez
> > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked
here
> > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere).

> > From the Papy.com website:

> > The NASCAR? Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing?
3,
> > NASCAR? Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR? Racing 3 Craftsman
Truck
> > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price.

> > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this
> format?
> > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the
> patches
> > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and
> > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount
titles?
> > Something doesn't make sense here?

> > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have
to
> > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine,
> but
> > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already?

> > Marc.

> > --

****************************************************************************

> > Marc Collins

> > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and
> > blame them on other computers.

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Cliff Roma** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I imagine you can look for the final patch to be released with the CTS addon
and the Acceleration pack. I think that is the only thing holding it up. At
least.. I hope :)

> I agree generally with your point...but when the patches haven't even been
> released yet, it certainly makes me pause to think. It may be inevitable
> given the publishing/remaindering practices that are common, but it is
still
> not a good way to treat your best customers. And until N4 is out, N3 and
NL
> are still the current products. As an example, I am thrilled that GPL has
> been "re-released" in the bargain bin. I would not have been thrilled had
> it happened just a few months after its release.

> Marc.

> > Nothing is different here than any other title.

> > The games will always be at full price when they are first released and
> then
> > the prices will come down. I remember buying Diablo for $50 and then
only
> > one week later after it came out, there were specials for $30.

> > They now have 3 products under the current system (N3, NL and the CTS)
and
> I
> > think it is great that they are offering all three for a group price.

> > When you say "I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to
> have
> > to pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter". What are they
> > supposed to do? Raise the price? Or are they supposed to sell the
> > Acceleration Pack for $120? I have had the joy of playing N3 for the
last
> > however many months since it came out. If they would have said "you can
> pay
> > $50 now, or wait 7 months and pay $20", I would not have done in. I
still
> > would have given them my $50

> > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez
> > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked
> here
> > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere).

> > > From the Papy.com website:

> > > The NASCAR? Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR
Racing?
> 3,
> > > NASCAR? Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR? Racing 3 Craftsman
> Truck
> > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price.

> > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this
> > format?
> > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the
> > patches
> > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations
and
> > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount
> titles?
> > > Something doesn't make sense here?

> > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have
> to
> > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff,
fine,
> > but
> > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already?

> > > Marc.

> > > --

****************************************************************************

> > > Marc Collins

> > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and
> > > blame them on other computers.

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Joel Willstei** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was more
than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm not
going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more.

I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but I
wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another
dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra.

Joel Willstein

by **Joel Willstei** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Why would you want to purchase the same exact sim a 2nd time,
especially when it doesn't even enclude any patches ? As for supporting new
sims, we already did what when we purchased nascar3.

You can forget ever seeing GPL2, nor is Cart2 likely to see the light
of day till the Nascar frenzy settles down.

Joel_W

by **R. G. Koehler Jr** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

> I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was more
> than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm not
> going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more.

> I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but I
> wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another
> dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra.

> Joel Willstein

The CTS package will also be available separately. They haven't said
anything about the price range though.

by **Marc Collin** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people who buy
N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount the new
pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...the ones who
anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who will only
purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the
expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that.

Marc.

> > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez
> > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked
here
> > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere).

> > From the Papy.com website:

> > The NASCAR? Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing?
3,
> > NASCAR? Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR? Racing 3 Craftsman
Truck
> > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price.

> > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this
> format?
> > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the
> patches
> > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and
> > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount
titles?
> > Something doesn't make sense here?

> > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have
to
> > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine,
> but
> > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already?

> > Marc.

> I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was
more
> than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm not
> going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more.

> I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but I
> wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another
> dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra.

> Joel Willstein

by **Cliff Roma** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Again, what do you want them to do then?

Refund everyone that already bought the product some money? You are saying
that you do not like this, but you are not even saying there are any other
possible solutions. The only thing they could do is to put a $120 cost on
the new package if you want them to go by your philosophy.

Are you saying they should not put out a Compilation pack at all? Why not?
If it helps to bring more people into the sim-racing community, I am all for
it. Heck, I would not care if they gave N3 away even though I paid my $50
for it.

> I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people who buy
> N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount the new
> pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...the ones
who
> anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who will
only
> purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the
> expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that.

> Marc.

> > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez
> > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked
> here
> > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere).

> > > From the Papy.com website:

> > > The NASCAR? Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR
Racing?
> 3,
> > > NASCAR? Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR? Racing 3 Craftsman
> Truck
> > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price.

> > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this
> > format?
> > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the
> > patches
> > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations
and
> > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount
> titles?
> > > Something doesn't make sense here?

> > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have
> to
> > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff,
fine,
> > but
> > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already?

> > > Marc.

> > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was
> more
> > than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm
not
> > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more.

> > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but
I

> > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another
> > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra.

> > Joel Willstein

by **don hodgdo** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I didn't mean to say that I would purchase the "same" product again, I just
meant that I'd probably buy the "next" product from Papy as soon as it's
released...except for the trucks, I have no interest there<g>.

And I'm afraid you are right about a GPL2 or CART2...but I can always hope.

--
don

"Getting hit by a meteorite is an accident...
everything else is driver-error."

> > Well Marc, I guess you just have to chalk it up to marketing. Selling
> ***
> > software is a lot like selling music cds, once your core market has
> > purchased their copies, sales tend to flatten out. Now in the case of
> music,
> > you can release another single and hope sales pick up again, but, in the
> > case of computer software, you can repackage it or give up and start
> working
> > on the sequel. Most of us bought our copies when they were released and
> will
> > probably do it again, but if Sierra can make a little more money off the
> > title and use it to finance future Papy projects (N4, GPL2 or a CART
> > title...please!), then I have no problem with it, which is not to say I
> will
> > buy it<g>.

> > --
> > don

> Why would you want to purchase the same exact sim a 2nd time,
> especially when it doesn't even enclude any patches ? As for supporting
new
> sims, we already did what when we purchased nascar3.

> You can forget ever seeing GPL2, nor is Cart2 likely to see the light
> of day till the Nascar frenzy settles down.

> Joel_W

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 21 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I've still got my set...all on 3.5" floppy.
Looking at the "recommended specs" makes me smile....how we all thought a
486DX was just the ultimate (which it was, I suppose!!)

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

by **Todd Sorense** » Wed, 22 Mar 2000 04:00:00

The thing is, the current product is pretty much the old stuff.

> I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people who buy
> N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount the new
> pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...the ones
who
> anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who will
only
> purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the
> expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that.

> Marc.

> > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez
> > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked
> here
> > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere).

> > > From the Papy.com website:

> > > The NASCAR? Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR
Racing?
> 3,
> > > NASCAR? Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR? Racing 3 Craftsman
> Truck
> > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price.

> > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this
> > format?
> > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the
> > patches
> > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations
and
> > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount
> titles?
> > > Something doesn't make sense here?

> > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have
> to
> > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff,
fine,
> > but
> > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already?

> > > Marc.

> > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was
> more
> > than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm
not
> > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more.

> > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but
I

> > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another
> > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra.

> > Joel Willstein

rec.autos.simulators

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?