rec.autos.simulators

PB

I think that racing is more like baseball in that there is an emotional tie
to the past (my apologies to our European friends who probably don't know
much about the culture of baseball in the U.S.).  This explains all the
interest in vintage race meets and people's love of old cars.

Also, WWII flight combat sims have done well because there is something
romantic about the era, as well as the actual challenge of flying a piston
driven plane (you have to understand energy and can't just fire up the
afterburner to get out of a jam).

Now the average gamma probably doesn't give a rat's ass about either
realistic driving models or the romance of the era.  I think that this same
average gamma would not have endured a steep learning curve on any
ultra-realistic racing sim, regardless of the era.  I do think that there
are enough true racing fans who really love vintage racing to support titles
like GPL, but I think that the game was just too hard for the vast majority
of them.  Not having adjustable realism settings was just plain nuts from a
sales stand point.

Dave Ewing

Oops.  I accidentally changed all the "gamers" to "gamma" by hitting the
wrong button in Outlook Express's spellcheck!  What a moron.

Dave Ewing

And what makes you assume that all gamers are racing fans?   That's the
thing here...  GPL is for the *** racing simulation market and that's
where it was targeted.  Im almost sure btw that most of the normal racing
fans have no idea who those drivers are.  GPL was destined to doom for the
mass-market, but it did well to the real target it was going to.

You guys still think that Mr. Gamer would buy GPL ???  His 30minute
attention span simply does not care.  Like it doesn't care for many other
types of ***.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Seen yes, but drive? EA markets games to a modtly young audience. I
bet less than 1% of NFS buyers will have driven any of the cars in the
game.

Exactly like GPL.

I disagree. They purchase games that are fun. For the vast majority of
gamers, I believe GPL fails that test.

Joe McGinn
_________________________
GA-Sports Writer
http://www.ga-sports.com/

"Joe62" wrote

You still don't get it. A large percentage of game players have voted
with their money to the fact that they think simulating is fun, even
simulating activities as mundane as flying a 747. The more realistic,
the better. People enjoy simulating activities they are interested in.

MS Flight Simulator has been a top 10 product for 15 years. Arcade
flying games have come and gone, but only the true sims have stood the
test of time. The reason "Test Drive" games sell so well is that
people think they are buying a sim, and they will be able to simulate
driving a luxury sports car they could never afford.

The number one selling Playstation game all-time is a driving
simulator, Gran Tourismo. It sold as much as all the NFS games
combined, even though it is somewhat "more difficult".

The problem with GPL is that it simulates something that only a very
small percentage of people are interested in. Of that small group, an
even smaller number happen to have a high end PC and a steering wheel
mounted on their desk.

Do you really think that a 1967 F1 game would have sold well if only
they had based it on the NFS engine? EA tried that with a NASCAR sim,
it didn't go over too well. NASCAR fans demanded realism, do you
believe F1 fans are less demanding?

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
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SOOOO the possibility for future realistic sims is there.  People just have
to rethink what the definition of a sim really is.

That's my main point.

JBlack

It has no where NEAR the learning curve of GPL.

I disagree. I certainly don't expect NFS or Test Drive to be a serious
simulation.

The GPL engine with some arcade options would be MUCH more fun than
the NFS engine. I think that's the point you are missing - most people
buy computer games for FUN. And because of the ridiculously high
learning curve that's something most people will never experience in
GPL. (I'm not one of those people, BTW, I love GPL - I just think it's
a shame that it as so unaccessible, and thus so unsuccessful).

That had little do to with realism. Nascar Evolution was utterly
flawed, even as an arcade game. As a result it was no fun, got
terrible reviews, and no one wanted to buy it.

In any case, it will be interesting to watch the new "old time" NFS
edition. I'm still betting it will do very well, despite modeling cars
almost none of the market has driven, and despite a very unrealistic
driving model.

Joe McGinn
_________________________
GA-Sports Writer
http://www.ga-sports.com/

Any idea what it will be called, or when it looks to be released?

Ken,
- Remove 'nospamallowed' from my email address to reply.
- ICQ #53954494

DMaer

:>MS Flight Simulator has been a top 10 product for 15 years.

: It has no where NEAR the learning curve of GPL.

And even the "hard" flight sims are nowhere near as difficult as
GPL.  Every prop sim I have flown which claimed to model prop torque, wind
effects etc. etc. was a walk in the park compared to GPL.  

Stephen

I'm not sure what you mean by a "normal racing fan".  Somebody who has been
watching nothing but NASCAR?  In that case, you're right.  But I would think
that even the casual F1 fan has heard of Jim Clark.

Agreed.

I have no idea.

Given that later in my post I wrote ...

"Now the average gamer probably doesn't give a rat's ass about either
realistic driving models or the romance of the era.  I think that this same
average gamer would not have endured a steep learning curve on any
ultra-realistic racing sim, regardless of the era."

... I, of course, agree with you.

Dave Ewing

--
*****************************************************
David A. Ewing

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