rec.autos.simulators

Is it more realistic....I don't know, I've never driven a NASCAR
stocker, but if it's a compromise they've made to improve gameplay, then
I happen to think it's a wise choice as you can now spend more time
racing other cars instead of just fighting to keep the car on the track

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

Couldn't agree more.

MadDAWG

But wouldn't you expect these things to get better as technology improves?
Somehow, I doubt N2003 would run on a Pentium 90 MHz, but the original
NASCAR Racing did.

What you're saying is that previous versions were deliberately hobbled in
order improve sales of the following release?  I'm sorry, but to me that is
complete nonsense.  Do you expect one single release that is a flawless sim
(never gonna happen)?  When would be the right time to release this?  At
what point is the technology mature enough?  Is it there yet?  Or are you
saying that subsequent versions shouldn't be any better?

"I couldn't even run a lap without the car spinning." is down to you, not
the game.

I'm kind of bemused by the comments, really.

Regards,

Mark Davison
http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/
"No more rhymes, now.  I mean it!"
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

But what NASCAR sim *would* you have played these past few years?

Regards,

Mark Davison
http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/
"No more rhymes, now.  I mean it!"
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

I'm still fighting... :-(

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-1.680
MonsterRank: +334.169
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Can't remember exactly which thread it was

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Fair do.  I loved all previous versions.  Well, maybe not N3 - I was spoiled
by GPL at that point and it felt dead.  Unlike some, I looked forward to
subsequent versions with relish as I knew that the onward march of
technology would allow for a more immersive experience.

Regards,

Mark Davison
http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/
"No more rhymes, now.  I mean it!"
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

Strongly disgree :-)

The whole point is that it should simulate driving a WC car as closely as
possible.  If that makes it an easy drive, so be it. If it makes it a
complete handful then I want to know.  The point is that you're driving
something on the limit to beat 42 others who are doing the same.  That's
where the satisfaction comes from.  I remember a while back in a similar
discussion someonne said that in GPL you're racing the track and in N3
you're racing other cars.  I don't think you can seprate the 2 like that.
You've gotta get on top of the car and learn how to get the most out of it
to compete with others.  It's fair enough if you don't have the time or
inclination to practise - switch on driving aids or buy GT3 or something.
I'm not sure about the new tyre model in N2003.  I guess you've gotta
"fudge" things when simulating real life on a humble PC but the lateral
sliding down the track when at a standstill that was in N4 but I don't
recall experiencing in N2002 is back.  The fact that Papy had more
involvement from racing pros in the development of N2003 would imply to me
that how the car handles in N2003 is more realistic than N2002.  I can't
imagine that they would dumb down for their swansong.

2 things I wish could have been implimented.

Dynamic sun position - would've made the glare effect a playablility feature
rather than gimmicky eye candy.

A switch to allow league admins to switch off that menace wall riding
penalty.

Regards,

Mark Davison
http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/
"No more rhymes, now.  I mean it!"
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

As far as the car spinning being "down to me", it seems like it was down
to many other people also, as that complaint was far and away one of the
most prevalent I saw when reading posts at different Nascar Sim related
websites and at on the Sierra forums. Not just for Nascar 2k2 either.
And I guess that it's always "down to me" also when no matter what track
I'm at, no matter where I'm at on the track, a mere tap by another car
sends me into the wall. Again, a complaint I saw many times on different
forums. And the AI? I love getting run over by the other cars. I seem to
remember hearing that with the earlier versions of Papyrus' Nascar sims,
if you had the line, the car behind you would either stay behind you, or
pass. Not with Nascar 2k2, they just run right over you. I realize that
papyrus has endeavored to make the Nascar sims more realistic, but I
believe in the process they have taken some of the fun out of the game.

Now on to your comment about "hobbling" the sim in order to improve
sales of the following release, I did not say this nor did I infer it.
What I said was why can't they get it right (after I'm sure they heard
complaints about the traction and the AI, both problems which were
present in their sims prior to Nascar 2K2) without us having to go out
and buy a new version every year which people say has better traction
and AI than last years, then you go out and buy it and it doesn't.
You'll probably answer that it's all on me, maybe I shouldn't be driving
a "sim", maybe I should be playing one of the Nascar arcade games. Well
I don't know if it matters or not, but I generally run better lap times
than the real cup cars do at the tracks with the "fast" setup, and I
STILL get run over by the AI. In answer to another comment you make, I
absolutely expect subsequent versions to be better, why aren't they?

Why would you be glad about that?

OK, then - you and some others.  It didn't (doesn't) affect me unless I
drive over the limit - at which point I'd expect to be punished.  We have
drivers of varying abilities in our league and I don't hear complaints like
this.  Only frustration from slower drivers who can't run with the faster
drivers.

I didn't specifically pull you up on that.  I don't end up in the wall
*every* time I get tapped.  More than I should?  Maybe.

I've rarely run seriously against AI so can't (and didn't) comment on that.
I don't recall the situation being as bad as you suggest when I *have* run
offline but must bow to your greater experience in this regard.

Depends what you find fun.  Can you believe some people enjoy collecting
stamps?  With every release I have had a better time than before and not had
cause to regress to a prior version.  That's just different strokes.
Me? I'm slightly bummed that I can't stall the car in N2003...

No?  This sounded like you were inferring it to me:
"I can't understand why it is that they just can't get it right without us
having to go out
every year and spending another $35-$50 for a new sim."
"I'm kinda tired of the "wow, this version is so much better than last
years", just seems like a marketing ploy to me."

But if that was not your intention, so be it.

Can't get *what* right, though?
The AI?  Looks like it's made a significant step forward in N2003 (from
reports hereabouts and my limited offline running).
The Traction?  Again, (reportedly) improved over previous versions.
The rubbing?  I can lean on AI a bit more.  Don't know if this more
realistic or a gameplay tweak.  I've seen rubbing in real life but also the
gentlest of taps putiing a car into the wall.

At no point will the AI act exactly like 42 individual, skilled but flawed
humans each with a distinct personality.
At no point will the car handle exactly like a Winston Cup car.

If *everything* had to be right on the money and 100% realistic before the
sim got released it would be in development for ever.  Compromises have to
made to allow these games to run on consumer level hardware.  There will
never, *ever* be a 100% accurate game that simulates a real life series.
Not ever.  The fact that the areas that are lacking particularly upset you
is indeed your problem.  Not including Legends, SEs and add-ons N2003 (which
you haven't bought yet) is NASCAR Racing 6.  That's, what, US$300 (assuming
you're American and paid full whack for each title - quite a bit less if
you're in the UK) over 6 years?  The amount of gameplay that I get out of
ONE of these title greatly exceeds my entire console collection.  The
cost/entertainment ratio is stunning value.

Your expectations.

Only if you want.  You've said that you don't enjoy the Papy games.

But you "couldn't even run a lap without the car spinning" and N2002 "pisses
[you] off so much that [you] almost hate to play it.".  Why not move onto
something else?  Try F12002  and the GTR Mod - they're awesome.  Maybe
you'll get enjoyment there.  If your bag is purely NASCAR, what about
Thunder?  I have no experience of this title but isn't it supposed to be a
sim?

They are - you said this yourself:
"and it always seems that they "get better" with each progressive release"

At no point have I said that any of the Papy NASCAR titles are perfect, but
to expect perfection in any sim is unreasonable and will lead to
disappointment.

AT THE END OF THE DAY....

What you should do is drive within your capabilities (so as not to spin
every lap), join a league (so as not to get run over by the AI) and don't
run into other drivers (so as not to end up in the wall)

We have positions available in our league if you wish to give it a try...

Regards,

Mark Davison
http://www.markdavison.clara.net/OVAL/
"No more rhymes, now.  I mean it!"
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

Gee how come Microsoft didn't write 1 version  of Windows and Office ?  How
come IBM couldn't get MVS on their first try ?

If statements like you made don't make you look bad enough then think what
real racing costs.  I get a lot of entertainment for $50 a year.  My real
Late Model stock car costs me a minimum of $1,000 bucks each time I take it
to the track, and that's if I don't wreck.

I also develop software and, believe me, anyone who writes code would love
to get everything right the first try.

If you can't afford $35 to $50 a year to go (simulated) racing then get a
better job and stop wasting your time on newsgroups.