rec.autos.simulators

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

Jon Anderse

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Jon Anderse » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I've played both. The latter for about a month. Gee, what a game! It has the
physics to scare the shit out of me. And it does. On the other hand, it was
no fun whatsoever when I first tested it. It was too damned difficult. It
had the brakes of my old rear wheel driven '76 Opel Manta 1.6 S with broken
brake calipers and worn out tires, which in Scandinavian icey roads (during
winter), - despite its 75 bhp engine, is quite a challenge.... 400 ++ bhp???

Just like in real life with my '76 Opel Manta, the tracks in GPL demands
more skill than this driver can deliver... Which puts me in the rails. Again
and again. That part is cheaper in GPL than in real life, though :-).

Before GPL came to my attention, I drove Colin McRae Rally (CMR). It was my
first "sim" experience, and it was love at first sight. I could wag the cars
tail more easily and more securely than with my old '76 Opel Manta. I felt
like an expert instantly. Later I learned, by looking at the stage times and
during online racing, that wagging my tale stole valuable seconds. Then I
tried to minimalize the wagging.

Point is:

The average, unskillfull person loves to wag the cars tale. If a game lets
this person do just that, and at the same time beat the game's AI, then that
person will but that game. Later on, focus is being set to achieved race
times. By this point, tale wagging is minimalized. Efficient driving becomes
the goal.

In GPL, you cannot beat the AI without efficient driving (my driving stilll
isn't efficient enough). In CMR you can win without truly efficient driving
as long as you keep the car on the road. I guess this fact is the reason for
GPL's rather lousy commercial success, as opposed to CMR.

Besides: 1967 F1 cars are ugly. Rally cars are not.

Conclusion:

If somebody developed a game as "easy" as CMR, but with an option for GPL
physics, then I would have the best from both worlds. That game would truly
be the game to have. In fact, I would see no need for buying another game if
such a game excisted.

Papyrus:  You have done *the* game of the last century. You are king of the
hill. It's a undisputed fact. Exploit the fact. I'd love to be exploited!
Use the knowlegde you (l)earned when developing GPL to wipe out any
competition in the racing sim arena. Your physics modelling is amazing!
Exploit it! Give the americans their silly oval track racing. Let then have
their dumb ass dragracing. While you are at it: Give them tractor pulling.
Then you can make Touring Car sims for us europeans. Or Rallycross sims.
50$? 100$ No problem! Your brand appeals to people who can,  - and is
willing to, pay such a price for a challenging racing sin. Your target
should be would-have-beens 30 years old ++. We can afford it. And we (at
least I) are willing to pay for it!

Comments?

Jon

Peter Nilss

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Peter Nilss » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00



SNIP

Them's are fightin' words son!!!   :-)

/petern

don hodgdo

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by don hodgdo » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00


> Besides: 1967 F1 cars are ugly. Rally cars are not.

WHAT!!!!! You callin' my Eagle ugly, boy?!!! Pistols at dawn!<g>

--
don

[|]-(_)-[|]

Bob Curti

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Bob Curti » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Another EuroSnob heard from.  If I were a fool, I too could dump on others'
racing venues.


> I've played both. The latter for about a month. Gee, what a game! It has the
> physics to scare the shit out of me. And it does. On the other hand, it was
> no fun whatsoever when I first tested it. It was too damned difficult. It
> had the brakes of my old rear wheel driven '76 Opel Manta 1.6 S with broken
> brake calipers and worn out tires, which in Scandinavian icey roads (during
> winter), - despite its 75 bhp engine, is quite a challenge.... 400 ++ bhp???

> Just like in real life with my '76 Opel Manta, the tracks in GPL demands
> more skill than this driver can deliver... Which puts me in the rails. Again
> and again. That part is cheaper in GPL than in real life, though :-).

> Before GPL came to my attention, I drove Colin McRae Rally (CMR). It was my
> first "sim" experience, and it was love at first sight. I could wag the cars
> tail more easily and more securely than with my old '76 Opel Manta. I felt
> like an expert instantly. Later I learned, by looking at the stage times and
> during online racing, that wagging my tale stole valuable seconds. Then I
> tried to minimalize the wagging.

> Point is:

> The average, unskillfull person loves to wag the cars tale. If a game lets
> this person do just that, and at the same time beat the game's AI, then that
> person will but that game. Later on, focus is being set to achieved race
> times. By this point, tale wagging is minimalized. Efficient driving becomes
> the goal.

> In GPL, you cannot beat the AI without efficient driving (my driving stilll
> isn't efficient enough). In CMR you can win without truly efficient driving
> as long as you keep the car on the road. I guess this fact is the reason for
> GPL's rather lousy commercial success, as opposed to CMR.

> Besides: 1967 F1 cars are ugly. Rally cars are not.

> Conclusion:

> If somebody developed a game as "easy" as CMR, but with an option for GPL
> physics, then I would have the best from both worlds. That game would truly
> be the game to have. In fact, I would see no need for buying another game if
> such a game excisted.

> Papyrus:  You have done *the* game of the last century. You are king of the
> hill. It's a undisputed fact. Exploit the fact. I'd love to be exploited!
> Use the knowlegde you (l)earned when developing GPL to wipe out any
> competition in the racing sim arena. Your physics modelling is amazing!
> Exploit it! Give the americans their silly oval track racing. Let then have
> their dumb ass dragracing. While you are at it: Give them tractor pulling.
> Then you can make Touring Car sims for us europeans. Or Rallycross sims.
> 50$? 100$ No problem! Your brand appeals to people who can,  - and is
> willing to, pay such a price for a challenging racing sin. Your target
> should be would-have-beens 30 years old ++. We can afford it. And we (at
> least I) are willing to pay for it!

> Comments?

> Jon

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/
"If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy
skin"
Morgan VW

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Morgan VW » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Sierra will never again allow for innovation from Papyrus. <- period. So don't
hold your breath.


Can you spell "narrow-minded stereotype"? I'm an American and love *all* forms
of real racing, whether oval or road course. I love watching the Touring Cars,
GT, and F1 cars just as much as the Winston Cup cars. Although, I agree with
the drag racing and, oh my god... tractor pulling!? Gag! Irregardless, drop the
stereotypes.

--
-----------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten

http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/
-----------------------------------

Mark Seer

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Mark Seer » Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Hehe. Don't you love the beautiful lines of dem Skoda's <G>

MS

Jeff Salzma

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Jeff Salzma » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

How about Americans that use non-words like 'irregardless'?

Matthew Birger Knutse

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Matthew Birger Knutse » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


Hey!I'm a European, and I love all kinds of motor-racing too! Includes
NASCAR, CART, and I've had great fun going to oval races in the states. IMO,
Tractor pulling isn't that great, but neither is rallycross, where a guy who
gets his arm broken by a goon from owing money from a booze-smuggling
operation is Euro champ, and the runner up was on leave from jail for some
other illegal activity!

I'd like to see Papy make other Pizza-delivery car sims than NASCAR
though...
(now how about Can-Am legends based on .....(booooo!) GPL ?)

Matt,
Norway
--------------------
GPLEA member

Michael Barlo

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Michael Barlo » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


> I've played both. The latter for about a month. Gee, what a game! It has the
> physics to scare the shit out of me. And it does. On the other hand, it was
> no fun whatsoever when I first tested it. It was too damned difficult. It
> had the brakes of my old rear wheel driven '76 Opel Manta 1.6 S with broken
> brake calipers and worn out tires, which in Scandinavian icey roads (during
> winter), - despite its 75 bhp engine, is quite a challenge.... 400 ++ bhp???

> Just like in real life with my '76 Opel Manta, the tracks in GPL demands
> more skill than this driver can deliver... Which puts me in the rails. Again
> and again. That part is cheaper in GPL than in real life, though :-).

> Before GPL came to my attention, I drove Colin McRae Rally (CMR). It was my
> first "sim" experience, and it was love at first sight. I could wag the cars
> tail more easily and more securely than with my old '76 Opel Manta. I felt
> like an expert instantly. Later I learned, by looking at the stage times and
> during online racing, that wagging my tale stole valuable seconds. Then I
> tried to minimalize the wagging.

> Point is:

> The average, unskillfull person loves to wag the cars tale. If a game lets
> this person do just that, and at the same time beat the game's AI, then that
> person will but that game. Later on, focus is being set to achieved race
> times. By this point, tale wagging is minimalized. Efficient driving becomes
> the goal.

> In GPL, you cannot beat the AI without efficient driving (my driving stilll
> isn't efficient enough). In CMR you can win without truly efficient driving
> as long as you keep the car on the road. I guess this fact is the reason for
> GPL's rather lousy commercial success, as opposed to CMR.

> Besides: 1967 F1 cars are ugly. Rally cars are not.

> Conclusion:

> If somebody developed a game as "easy" as CMR, but with an option for GPL
> physics, then I would have the best from both worlds. That game would truly
> be the game to have. In fact, I would see no need for buying another game if
> such a game excisted.

> Papyrus:  You have done *the* game of the last century. You are king of the
> hill. It's a undisputed fact. Exploit the fact. I'd love to be exploited!
> Use the knowlegde you (l)earned when developing GPL to wipe out any
> competition in the racing sim arena. Your physics modelling is amazing!
> Exploit it! Give the americans their silly oval track racing. Let then have
> their dumb ass dragracing. While you are at it: Give them tractor pulling.
> Then you can make Touring Car sims for us europeans. Or Rallycross sims.
> 50$? 100$ No problem! Your brand appeals to people who can,  - and is
> willing to, pay such a price for a challenging racing sin. Your target
> should be would-have-beens 30 years old ++. We can afford it. And we (at
> least I) are willing to pay for it!

> Comments?

> Jon

        The Trans-Am sim is supposed to be developed that way.  With very
arcade like physics.  Then as you progress in experience and confidence,
you can start to turn some (or all) of the arcade goodies off.  At the
end, you'll have a VERY real racing sim.  However, because it will be
real, that means that GPL will seem easy (excluding the tire compound in
GPL) or just as hard.  So, If this "SIM" becomes what those guys hope it
will be, it will be what you are asking for.

        One suggestion.  Taking on 400+ HP with a 1500 lb. car with skinny and
hard tires will always be hard.  Try the Basic trainer.  There are many
online series that use these cars exclusively.  With these cars the
racing is much closer and it's not as hard to control them.  on second
thought, since you are looking for an arcade "game", better not use the
Basic trainers. ;-)
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/

Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Don Scurlo

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Don Scurlo » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00


He's just yanking your chain.  Besides, it's getting a little embarrassing, now
there's LAWN TRACTOR pulling.

--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

Morgan VW

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Morgan VW » Thu, 06 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Oh yeah! I saw that on... hmmm... somewhere... That *is* silly! :)


--
-----------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten

http://members.tripod.com/~morganv/
-----------------------------------

Tim Vanhe

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Tim Vanhe » Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:00:00

A rallycross-sim. GREAT idea!!! I'm getting all e***d just thinking about
it! My god, that would be a thrill: A small 8 car grid (or more) with
+600bhp 4WD rally-cross cars, slamming eachother on a short blasting
dirt+asphalt track (including left AND right corners, unlike DTR) with
hills, dips, watersplashes, etc...
Does anybody from Papy feel so e***d about it too???
Hey Papy-people! PLEEEEEASE..... I'm begging you on my bare knees....

Steve Ferguso

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Steve Ferguso » Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:00:00

: had the brakes of my old rear wheel driven '76 Opel Manta 1.6 S with broken
:
: Just like in real life with my '76 Opel Manta, the tracks in GPL demands
:
: tail more easily and more securely than with my old '76 Opel Manta. I felt
:
: Comments?

Well, it seems what you reallly want is a 1976 Opel Manta sim!  Of course,
to be completely accurate, Papyrus would have to include lowering springs,
fiberglass fender flares, 8" wide wheels with 6" wide tires, 4-point red
seatbelts, three-colour paint jobs, and a coffee-can exhaust pipe. :)

Apologies to those from areas outside Germany, Austria and
Switzerland.  It's a regional thing.  In Britain, please substitute
"1980 Ford Capri", and in America, please substitute "1979 Camaro Z28"

Stephen

Cossi

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Cossi » Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:00:00

You are wrong man. In American, you need to put in 1999 Exploder, 1999
Explodition and 2000 Excursion. See how you like doing heavy braking  in
that  ovel in front of them.......
Steve Ferguso

CMR & GPL (ATTN: Papyrus)

by Steve Ferguso » Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:00:00

:>Well, it seems what you reallly want is a 1976 Opel Manta sim!  Of course,
:>to be completely accurate, Papyrus would have to include lowering springs,
:>fiberglass fender flares, 8" wide wheels with 6" wide tires, 4-point red
:>seatbelts, three-colour paint jobs, and a coffee-can exhaust pipe. :)
:>
:>Apologies to those from areas outside Germany, Austria and
:>Switzerland.  It's a regional thing.  In Britain, please substitute
:>"1980 Ford Capri", and in America, please substitute "1979 Camaro Z28"
:>
:>Stephen
:>
: You are wrong man. In American, you need to put in 1999 Exploder, 1999
: Explodition and 2000 Excursion. See how you like doing heavy braking  in
: that  ovel in front of them.......

While those are indeed frightening veeeee-hick-ulls, the substitutions
that I made are more appropriate for the type of car and type of driver
(gross stereotype here) associated.

Stephen


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