--
PD
> Actually, the phrase "No Force Feedback is better than Bad Force Feedback"
> is an old phrase I often heard used around multi-million dollar flight
> simulators.
> So it would seem that Rory is not quite alone in this opinion.
Hi Alison,
Well, I've both.....and so far I like the Hyperstim more then the
Logitech. I guess it's me, but somehow I fail to notice the extra
information the FF should give me. I find myself fighting the wheel,
while I'm more relaxed when I'm using the Hyper.
Yes, I've the Logitech for some months now, and I tried to use it
for some weeks, just trying to get the feeling for it. So far, it's no
show. I'll keep trying, but I fear I'm spoiled....
Remco
>I have to agree with Pat on this one. A good FF wheel (I use the
>Logitech) is far better than a passive wheel. I'm faster and more
>consistent in GPL with a well set up Logitech FF wheel than with a
>passive wheel, even a passive wheel which is much better in basic
>quality than the Logitech (I've tried many passive wheels, including
>ECCI, TSW, and my own custom wheel).
I understand what you are saying. Hyper Stimulator does our manufacturing
in-house. We would be very reluctant to lease technology or parts from
someone else. This was a problem in the past. Hardware is not the issue
for FF to use, software to our standards is. If Hyper Stimulator in
Australia received enough feedback stating clearly that you or anyone else
would buy the Hyper Stimulator if it had FF than I am sure it would happen.
I personally am looking forward to the day when we will have it because I
know it will be done correctly. I don't loose sleep over the fact that we
don't have it yet. What it comes down to is the environment that we deliver
in my opinion is the best out there, even though we don't have the FF some
are looking for. The Hyper Stimulator was founded by a Real Racing Driver
Champion. Read the story at http://www.hyperstim.com/hq/story.html . One
thing is for sure, if enough people stand up to the bar and commit clearly
that they would purchase the Hyper Stimulator if it had FF, than I am sure
we would do. Anyone is welcome to email me their commitment to purchase a
Hyper Stimulator if it had FF. I would be very interested to find out what
type of commitment there is.
Thanks for your comments. I do appreciate all comments positive or
negative. Just so that it is clear to everyone, Hyper Stimulator doesn't
pretend to be God on the subject of race car simulators. We always want to
improve. We do our best and do what we think is right. All egos should be
checked at the door!
--
Rory S. Brown
Canadian Distributor for Hyper Stimulator
"The World's Best Racing Car Simulators"
Visit www.hyperstimcanada.com
Home Designed Computers by Rory
"Custom Computers for your needs!"
Visit www.directcomputers.com
Unit 7 - 9947 - 151 Street
Surrey, BC Canada V3R 9A1
Phone 604-671-5997
Fax 604-930-9983
Hyper Stimulator Sales: sa...@hyperstimcanada.com
Computer Sales: sa...@directcomputers.com
Official Supplier of Computers & Hyper Stimulators to:
the Players Racing Simulator Challenge Tour and
The Kool Racing Challenge Tour
Visit www.players-racing.com
> Hi, Rory,
> And please excuse me for popping into this thread, but I simply feel I
> need to ask a question or two here ...
> I know I am a "newbie" to the simulator scene and these discussions,
> but some of your responses beg the inquiries.
> Understanding your position of FF not essentially being "ready for
> prime time", it still seems that though the technology may be somewhat
> less than perfectly "real" it would be in the best interest of any
> manufacturer to try and get in on development as early as possible. If
> Hyperstims are being ade to be "upgradable" to FF at some time in the
> future, how difficult would it be to implement it in its present form
> and use that as a "starting point" for further development ???
> It appears that Hyperstim desires to have the most "immersive" racing
> simulators available, and with each of your simulators you offer
> extensive "option" lists ... Why not adapt the current FF technology
> and make it an "option" ??? Certainly you could charge a fair
> additional amount for the implementation, and given the prices of the
> units at present, it would not increase the price of the units
> dramatically from a percentage standpoint. Would not then the actual
> customer have the choice of whether the technology was an advantage or
> disadvantage ???
> It would seem possible that Hyperstim might actually be "missing" some
> business currently by not offering FF as at least an option; with
> customers who currently prefer FF either not choosing to purchase a
> Hyperstim, or at least waiting until you do implement the FF
> technology ...
> Your company seems to want to be on the "leading edge" in racing
> simulation immersiveness and quality, yet your responses point to a
> policy of you will not offer it until "you" think its ready. The
> marketplace seems to be voting with its dollars, and it further seems
> that most other manufacturers are scrambling to implement FF as
> quickly as possible, even with all of the foilbles you seem to feel it
> has, and all the while they gain an "experience" knowledge base to
> further refine the technology. If nothing else, perhaps your company
> could "license" the technology from one of the other manufacturers or
> use someone like Act Labs as a supplier of FF motors and drives for
> the time being, further allowing you and your company to "learn" from
> their implementation while developing your own ...
> Pardon me if this seems pretentious, as I don't mean to be, but please
> understand I come from "real" auto racing, and if we ever let the
> "competition" get too much of a developmental edge then it is always
> far more diffcult to "catch up" after the fact. It always seems to
> work better to grab onto the new developments, even suffering some of
> the pitfalls along the way, than to lag too far behind ...
> Just my $ .02 ...
> Thanks,
> Allan
> >On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 21:56:55 GMT, "Rory S. Brown"
<rorysbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Alison,
> >Thanks for your comments. Actually, the first thing I did was to try to
> >make the Logitech wheel fit in the Hyper, but it doesn't work out. All I
> >can say about Force Feedback is that we will do it when the software
> >technology is where we want it to be. Again, the Hyper Stimulator is
> >designed to be upgradeable so it in no way is it a disadvantage to own a
> >Hyper. Hyper Stimulator customers will be able to add Force Feedback
later
> >on. I do think implied or expressed in Pat's message what offered the
best
> >overall racing simulation experience and frankly, I truly believe we
offer
> >that. I hope get the chance to spend some time behind a Hyper Stimulator
> >Historic Model some day. Thanks for your comments. They are always
> >appreciated. Now answer the trivial question I posted today. Don't
answer
> >it too quickly if you know the answer. Let the group guess awhile. You
> >could email me if you want your answer.
> >--
> >Rory S. Brown
> >Canadian Distributor for Hyper Stimulator
> >"The World's Best Racing Car Simulators"
> >Visit www.hyperstimcanada.com
> >Home Designed Computers by Rory
> >"Custom Computers for your needs!"
> >Visit www.directcomputers.com
> >Unit 7 - 9947 - 151 Street
> >Surrey, BC Canada V3R 9A1
> >Phone 604-671-5997
> >Fax 604-930-9983
> >Hyper Stimulator Sales: sa...@hyperstimcanada.com
> >Computer Sales: sa...@directcomputers.com
> >Official Supplier of Computers & Hyper Stimulators to:
> >the Players Racing Simulator Challenge Tour and
> >The Kool Racing Challenge Tour
> >Visit www.players-racing.com
> >"Alison Hine" <alison...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
> >news:e9en6skqh7h4vg5gdogjvu3gbhtt8h9bsj@4ax.com...
> >> Rory-
> >> I have to agree with Pat on this one. A good FF wheel (I use the
> >> Logitech) is far better than a passive wheel. I'm faster and more
> >> consistent in GPL with a well set up Logitech FF wheel than with a
> >> passive wheel, even a passive wheel which is much better in basic
> >> quality than the Logitech (I've tried many passive wheels, including
> >> ECCI, TSW, and my own custom wheel).
> >> I've been racing GPL for almost two years now, and with a passive wheel
> >> I'd reached a plateau in terms of speed. After going to a FF wheel,
I'm
> >> going faster everywhere, and my ability to develop setups, and detect
> >> the quality of a setup change, is much improved. I get better race
> >> results too.
> >> It took some time (about two weeks) to adjust to the FF wheel, but
after
> >> that, there's no going back. I tried going back to my (carefully
> >> crafted, very precise, very high quality) custom passive wheel
recently,
> >> and it absolutely sucked compared to the LogiFF.
> >> BTW, your LWFF to Hyper Stim comparison is not really valid; you're
> >> comparing apples to oranges. Along with a topnotch passive wheel,
> >> you're comparing great pedals and an ensemble of components which
> >> creates a very immersive environment against a FF wheel operating in
the
> >> context of a much less immersive environment.
> >> Why don't you bolt a Logitech FF wheel to a Hyper Stimulator in place
of
> >> its HS-built wheel? Keep the Hyper Stim's pedals (they are sure to be
> >> better than the Logitech's) and just configure in GPL to use the Logi
> >> wheel instead of the HS's. (Details on my FF page at
> >> http://simracing.com/alison/gpl/force.htm )
> >> (BTW, this is a minor point, but note that Logitech's software allows
> >> you to assign a shift function to one of the six paddles and buttons,
so
> >> you can have, in effect, 11 buttons on the LogiFF.)
> >> Now drive GPL in this setup (and only this setup) every day for an
hour,
> >> for two weeks. Then put the HS wheel back in place of the LogiFF.
> >> Yes, the LogiFF wheel is a cheapo plastic piece of crap compared to the
> >> HS wheel. Yes, it uses (yuck!) nylon bearings. Yes, its wheel wobbles
> >> because the shaft is too short and because of the play in the nylon
> >> bearings. Yes, its pot probably cost 10% of the cost of the pot in the
> >> HS.
> >> But I'm betting that you will want to put it back onto the HS after
> >> spending two weeks with it, and then comparing the passive wheel
> >> experience to the Force-enabled experience.
> >> Better still, I'm hoping that you'll want to develop your own FF wheel
> >> to put in the HS. If the HS experience is so great - and I'm sure it
is
> >> - then imagine how great it would be when enhanced with a really good
FF
> >> implementation.
> >> I'm sure that with not a whole lot of effort, you could work up an
> >> adaptation for the Immersion unit used in the Act Labs Force RS that
> >> would absolutely rock. The Immersion
read more »
> Actually, the phrase "No Force Feedback is better than Bad Force Feedback"
> is an old phrase I often heard used around multi-million dollar flight
> simulators.
Hmmm, I prefer 3D glasses with headtracking.....<g>
Remco
GPL can be run in a window. Can multiple copies
be run at once? If so, could these multiple
copies be "networked" together on one PC?
If they could, it seems to me that you could, on
one computer, emulate the multiple monitor setups
some people have set up. Those set ups use
multiple computers all running GPL, networked
together.
Win 98 should be able to send video from the
additional copies of GPL to additional monitors.
Does anyone know?
--
PD
> >Yes, we need multi-monitor support
> Hmmm, I prefer 3D glasses with headtracking.....<g>
> Remco
Too bad GPL doesn't have a spectator mode, since you'll be filling up
3 slots in the race. And offline it would only be good for testing,
since the AI won't run multiplayer.
"Pat Dotson" wrote
> GPL can be run in a window. Can multiple copies
> be run at once? If so, could these multiple
> copies be "networked" together on one PC?
> If they could, it seems to me that you could, on
> one computer, emulate the multiple monitor setups
> some people have set up. Those set ups use
> multiple computers all running GPL, networked
> together.
> Win 98 should be able to send video from the
> additional copies of GPL to additional monitors.
> Does anyone know?
> --
> PD
> > >Yes, we need multi-monitor support
> > Hmmm, I prefer 3D glasses with headtracking.....<g>
> > Remco
I tried to fire up gpl in a window by changing the
fullscreen
setting in the core.ini. It didn't make any
difference.
Does anyone know how to start it in a window?
--
PD
> You would need one heck of a PC to run 3 copies of GPL if it is
> possible. Why not just network 2 cheaper PC's (get TNT cards since you
> don't need mirrors and can run at higher resolution) to your main one,
> share your internet connection, and when you join a race join it on
> all three computers, set the other 2 up to watch the race in the
> peripheral views.
> Too bad GPL doesn't have a spectator mode, since you'll be filling up
> 3 slots in the race. And offline it would only be good for testing,
> since the AI won't run multiplayer.
> "Pat Dotson" wrote
> > Just had an idea.
> > GPL can be run in a window. Can multiple copies
> > be run at once? If so, could these multiple
> > copies be "networked" together on one PC?
> > If they could, it seems to me that you could, on
> > one computer, emulate the multiple monitor setups
> > some people have set up. Those set ups use
> > multiple computers all running GPL, networked
> > together.
> > Win 98 should be able to send video from the
> > additional copies of GPL to additional monitors.
> > Does anyone know?
> > --
> > PD
> > > >Yes, we need multi-monitor support
> > > Hmmm, I prefer 3D glasses with headtracking.....<g>
> > > Remco
Andre
Jens
---------------------------------------------
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