Rory-
I have to agree with Pat on this one. A good FF wheel (I use the
Logitech) is far better than a passive wheel. I'm faster and more
consistent in GPL with a well set up Logitech FF wheel than with a
passive wheel, even a passive wheel which is much better in basic
quality than the Logitech (I've tried many passive wheels, including
ECCI, TSW, and my own custom wheel).
I've been racing GPL for almost two years now, and with a passive wheel
I'd reached a plateau in terms of speed. After going to a FF wheel, I'm
going faster everywhere, and my ability to develop setups, and detect
the quality of a setup change, is much improved. I get better race
results too.
It took some time (about two weeks) to adjust to the FF wheel, but after
that, there's no going back. I tried going back to my (carefully
crafted, very precise, very high quality) custom passive wheel recently,
and it absolutely sucked compared to the LogiFF.
BTW, your LWFF to Hyper Stim comparison is not really valid; you're
comparing apples to oranges. Along with a topnotch passive wheel,
you're comparing great pedals and an ensemble of components which
creates a very immersive environment against a FF wheel operating in the
context of a much less immersive environment.
Why don't you bolt a Logitech FF wheel to a Hyper Stimulator in place of
its HS-built wheel? Keep the Hyper Stim's pedals (they are sure to be
better than the Logitech's) and just configure in GPL to use the Logi
wheel instead of the HS's. (Details on my FF page at
http://www.racesimcentral.net/)
(BTW, this is a minor point, but note that Logitech's software allows
you to assign a shift function to one of the six paddles and buttons, so
you can have, in effect, 11 buttons on the LogiFF.)
Now drive GPL in this setup (and only this setup) every day for an hour,
for two weeks. Then put the HS wheel back in place of the LogiFF.
Yes, the LogiFF wheel is a cheapo plastic piece of ***compared to the
HS wheel. Yes, it uses (yuck!) nylon bearings. Yes, its wheel wobbles
because the shaft is too short and because of the play in the nylon
bearings. Yes, its pot probably cost 10% of the cost of the pot in the
HS.
But I'm betting that you will want to put it back onto the HS after
spending two weeks with it, and then comparing the passive wheel
experience to the Force-enabled experience.
Better still, I'm hoping that you'll want to develop your own FF wheel
to put in the HS. If the HS experience is so great - and I'm sure it is
- then imagine how great it would be when enhanced with a really good FF
implementation.
I'm sure that with not a whole lot of effort, you could work up an
adaptation for the Immersion unit used in the Act Labs Force RS that
would absolutely rock. The Immersion unit used in the Force RS is much
better than the one used in the Logitech Wingman FF. It has a much
larger, more powerful motor, toothed belt reduction (vs. cables in the
Logi), and ball bearings.
As far as I can tell, there's only one thing wrong with that Immersion
unit (excessive friction induced by belts that are too tight). A
company with your resources could surely develop a fix (adjustable or
spring-loaded tensioning idlers).
I bet you could do it in a couple of days. Pick up a Force RS for $70
and take it apart and you'll see what I mean. You might even use the
RS's internal and electronic bits for your prototype.
About a year ago, I wrote to a very high-end wheel manufacturer (let's
call them "Acme") asking why they didn't provide paddles on their
wheels. They explained that they were committed to providing the
absolute best racing experience for their customers, and they said
paddles aren't as good or as fast as thumb buttons (conveniently
ignoring the fact that real F1 teams had been using paddle shifters for
years).
I wrote back and pointed out that I had put $5 microswitches on the back
of my TM wheel, and these worked just as fast as the thumb buttons on my
friend's "Acme" wheel and were ergonomically far superior.
I don't know if my email had any impact, but a few months later, "Acme"
began offering paddles on their wheels.
The m***of that story is that sometimes the people who make the very
best stuff can be temporarily blinded to the significance of worthwhile
innovations by the position of technical superiority in which their own
lofty talents and commitment to excellence have placed them.
I say it's time for you and Hyper Stimulator to move into the 21st
century, Rory. <grin>
Alison
On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:18:01 GMT, "Rory S. Brown"
>Pat,
>I appreciate your reply and respectfully disagree, though you make some
>valid points. I have driven GPL with force feedback with the Logitech Wheel
>and it doesn't even come close to the feeling I get from sitting in the
>Hyper Stimulator with the chassis shaker, 12 programmable button steering
>wheel, form fitted seat, and firm brake pedal. I hope that some day you
>will have the opportunity to use your obvious skills to work (checked your
>web site) by driving a Hyper Stimulator for a whole week or so. It is
>unfortunate the pricing of the Hyper Stimulator means that few people will
>get the opportunity to own a Hyper Stimulator. There is a reason it is
>priced like it is: Quality. Just ask any owner of a Hyper Stimulator if it
>is worth the price. You can't make a mistake investing in Quality!
>We will do force feedback when we determine it is at the correct stage of
>development. Please remember, the Hyper Stimulator is designed to be
>upgradeable so the investment is never lost. We even had a H Box shifter
>ready to go for GPL but since Papyrus didn't include this feature in the
>patch, as they where supposed to do, no point in doing it yet.
>Again, Thanks for your input.
Alison
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