Thanks to the internet we can actually read and SEE other peoples
performances, so no it isn't just our own humble limits which we can
comment on.
Thomas Ford
"Please remove NOSPAM from e-mail address to reply"
>Very dificult to define. Personally, I can not concider a simulator to
>be a simulator without a detailed garage, like the ones in CART
>Precision Racing, GPL, Viper Racing and SCGT.
So if someone comes out with a Miata simulator, it can't be considered
a simulator unless it has a complete garage?! It could be the most
accurate simulator ever built, but because it's a simulator of a stock
'99 Miata, it can't be considered a sim by you because you can't go
into the garage and change a bunch of stuff. I'm sorry, but I feel
that your definition of simulator has little to do with the meaning of
the word, but at least you know what you want.
Track accuracy can be a very big turn-on or turn-off. I don't claim
that SCGT is not a sim because they screwed up Laguna Seca...neither
would I say TOCA 2 is not a sim because it has a weak garage. Neither
of the two of them determine whether or not there is a simulation
there. Any physical model which "gets" the concept of weight transfer
and the friction circle is a sim to me...but some do a better job than
others, and some are closer to the real thing than others.
Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder
To be fair, Jacques Villeneuve only qualified 18th on Grand Prix 2
when learning Spa, only to go and take the pole in real life. Would
you argue that since many here on r.a.s. would blow Villeneuve's doors
off on GP2, he can't be considered an authority on comparative car
handling?
Randy
> I like it that you are finally willing to put your money where your
>mouth is, unlike alot of the know-it-alls around here. So, how fast a
>driver ARE you in Toca2 or GPL?? Its easier to be a 'statesman of ras'
>than to actually produce times that mean anything ..all these learned
>opinions about handling from people who are several seconds off the
>pace! Its a joke.
> The ones who know the most about comparitive car handling are the
>ones who are the most accomplished at driving. If you cantmanage
>competitive levels in the game, then who are you to make catagorical
>statements about the game (Thomas Ford, etc.etc.)??
> Talk is cheap, opinions are a dime a dozen, ..and all this from
>people who never mention their accomplishments behind the wheel!
>Thats whats lopsided about this joint.. all this 'enlightenment' from
>people who cant even drive properly. You dont know what these games
>are made of 'driving at the limit' ..you only know your OWN humble
>limits, and the opinion thats results therefrom.
>MR
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
The biggest, most disastrous error is in the corkscrew. If you would
like to see a lap around Laguna Seca in real life, go to
www.laguna-seca.com and look at their lap video, or you can look at
still photos going around the track. There are no 'floppy' stick up
cones at the entrance to the corkscrew, and the curbing is actually
elevated on either side, and not just a strip of colored paint. It's
also more of an elevation change, and there are camber changes
throughout. There are other cases where curbs are missing or wrong,
and camber throughout is messed up. But as I said, watch the in-car
video from the track web site a few times, and compare it to what you
see in SCGT, and the differences become apparent. EA's SuperBike and
Sega's Dreamcast versions are the best I've seen.
Cheers,
Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder
> To be fair, Jacques Villeneuve only qualified 18th on Grand Prix 2
> when learning Spa, only to go and take the pole in real life. Would
> you argue that since many here on r.a.s. would blow Villeneuve's doors
> off on GP2, he can't be considered an authority on comparative car
> handling?
> Randy
Interesting, but I have to believe that that much ballyhooed 18th
qualifying position of Jacques in GP2 is an unfair example :) All we
know of Jacques attmept was basically 'finished 18th!' ..we have no
idea how fast his system was or what details he had turned on,
etc.etc.etc. I dont expect Jacques became fully racing-sim-computer-
literate overnight ..who knows what wacky settings he may have been
driving with! :)
A more recent example of 'needing to know the score' is Toca2, where
framerates and lap times are connected. In other words, if you ask too
much detail of your system, the framerates drop and your registered
laptimes go up. Ok? So my comments were pointed at members of the
existing 'guild' of drivers, who've probably tried several 3D card
drivers in the last month alone )
My irritation was with certain people who like to put down other games
(than GPL), just because they can, and because they have a hen-house of
like minded disciples around them. I'm waiting for these people to
embrace racing itself ..and not just their tiny little corner of it, in
the sim racing world.
MR
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
huh?
Who runs 'arcade' mode?
The cars in Viper Racing have an incredible driving
and physics model, FWIW..
--
* rrevved at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.cabal.net
* http://www.sputum.com
Just because you (and many others) are much faster than I does not
mean that my opinion is invalid or any less worthwhile than your own.
I do not appreciate being informed that I must be a record-setting
driver to comment here. If your idea was adopted in RAS, then you and
no more than a few others could have it to yourself.
If you still think that your opinions are more important than mine
because your laptimes are lower, then perhaps you should start a new
forum, like "rec.autos.simulators.superstars" or some such crap. I
appreciate what you have been doing to advance TOCA2 in the community,
but this comment you have made is out of place and not welcome. I am
not putting down SCGT or TOCA2. One of my points was that GPL is
somewhat more realistic and sophisticated than either. That is simply
a fact, and does not make SCGT or TOCA2 any less fun to drive.
Unthanks.
> My irritation was with certain people who like to put down other games
> (than GPL), just because they can, and because they have a hen-house
of
> like minded disciples around them. I'm waiting for these people to
> embrace racing itself ..and not just their tiny little corner of it,
in
> the sim racing world.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Hi Terry,
Yeah, you're mostly right. I couldnt stop someone from saying "Toca2 is
crap, SCGT rules! nuff said" (or words to that effect), so instead I
wanted to rub their nose in the sh*t of their own laptimes. It was a
bad idea.
MR
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Sky
> To be fair, Jacques Villeneuve only qualified 18th on Grand Prix 2
> when learning Spa, only to go and take the pole in real life. Would
> you argue that since many here on r.a.s. would blow Villeneuve's doors
> off on GP2, he can't be considered an authority on comparative car
> handling?
> Randy
> > Neither are particularly challenging, but I enjoy both when I just
> >want to kick back and go for a ride.
> > I like it that you are finally willing to put your money where your
> >mouth is, unlike alot of the know-it-alls around here. So, how fast a
> >driver ARE you in Toca2 or GPL?? Its easier to be a 'statesman of ras'
> >than to actually produce times that mean anything ..all these learned
> >opinions about handling from people who are several seconds off the
> >pace! Its a joke.
> > The ones who know the most about comparitive car handling are the
> >ones who are the most accomplished at driving. If you cantmanage
> >competitive levels in the game, then who are you to make catagorical
> >statements about the game (Thomas Ford, etc.etc.)??
> > Talk is cheap, opinions are a dime a dozen, ..and all this from
> >people who never mention their accomplishments behind the wheel!
> >Thats whats lopsided about this joint.. all this 'enlightenment' from
> >people who cant even drive properly. You dont know what these games
> >are made of 'driving at the limit' ..you only know your OWN humble
> >limits, and the opinion thats results therefrom.
> >MR
> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
> Randy Magruder
> http://members.home.com/rmagruder
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Handy.
> > Who wants to race TOCA 2 now that we have SCGT available?
> And then Mark Rael responded with:
> >How are you enjoying SCGT over the internet, dear? Is it as good as I
> >hear? You had SCGT for one day Thomas Ford, and already the bullsh*t
> >about how nothing compares to it? Check Randy Magruders article at
> >Digitalsports, and grow up...before I throw-up.
> So I said:
> >Actually, having SCGT for such as short period of time should
> >emphasise just how good it is!
> >I'm sure many would agree...
> From what I have read on RAS, most people seem to agree that SCGT is
> much better than Toca 2, but to be sure I would like to see if this is
> true or not.
> Which do YOU think is better?
> My money is most certainly on SCGT!
> Excellent physics.
> Excellent graphics.
> Excellent layout.
> Excellent options.
> It's a simulator, not an arcade racer just Toca 2.
> It has many more cars, all of which act entirely different to each
> other.
> I was especially pleased by the difference between Donnington in both
> games. SCGT only goes to prove how bad it was built in both Toca 1 and
> 2.
> Thomas Ford
> "Please remove NOSPAM from e-mail address to reply"
