rec.autos.simulators

by **ymenar** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:33:08

> let the comments begin ...

Well, there is much bigger screenshots available elsewhere.

Anyway, it's obvious Geoff has not created a full new game engine, because
it's obviously "Crammondish" in a way the textures are, and how the lighting
affects the polygons (a greyish hue). It's really easy to see, it was easy
to see in Gp3 also.

Of course, that's not a bad thing, but it's not a good thing either. The
core assembler game engine is still present probably, and until it is there,
the sim won't be worth anything. I mean it's 2002, WHEN WILL GEOFF START
SKIPPING FRAMES instead of time bending and other stupid tricks a decade
old?????.

</rant>

:)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Trappe** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:41:26

Ya, almost as good as F1 2001. Almost.

"

by **Don Burnett** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:46:41

Too small to tell anything.

Don Burnette

by **double** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:55:22

yes, it's too bad [most of us auto-simmers?] don't get all hot and bothered
over non-cockpit views. I know I certainly don't.

> >http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> >http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> >http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> >http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> >let the comments begin ...
> >Jimmy

> they're not exatcly 'in action' though. but i doubt we'd EVER see***pit
> shots. for some reason game developers never show then. all videos are
of
> replays or the intro, never in game shots, which is understandable i guess

by **nobody specia** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:29:04

thanks!

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:51:37

Speak for yourself....when a NEW title, one that hasn't been seen
before(i.e. NOT a GP 3 or 4 but say Rally Trophy), The very first screen
shot I want to see is a***pit view. Why? Glad I asked....:)
1) Outside replay views often are 'glitzier' than actual ingame
shots...Watch those TV commercials for console sports games...do you see
actual gameplay when they display Madden 2002? Do we see ingame action from
the latest NBA title, or hockey? NOPE...we see replays which often run at a
higher resolution than actual gameplay. Thus, outside views MAY be used to
mislead the buying public.
2) Games that don't have***pit views in early screenshots often are
titles that have, in the past, been heavily weighted toward arcade values,
so I am leary of companies that DON'T show incar views.
3) If there are no in-car***pit views, this may indicate they
programmers have not attempted to really simulate the vehicle in question.
By that I mean feedback from a***pit often means the whole car is modeled,
not just a visible nose that will magically dip down everytime I press the
brake pedal. I look for***pit shots to verify that the programmers are
TRYING to implement code that will help with the immersion factor rather
than ellicit ooohhhs and aaaahhhhs over the pretty sunsets.
4) I'm not buying a racing simulation that simulates Kite Flying above
and behind the car. If I buy a racing title, it's to at least at SOME
level, to experience what racing a real life car is like...I haven't, at
least in 40+ years, found a car that is controled while floating behind
it....
There is no technical defense for this last reason, it is based purely on my
subjective knowledge of what I perceive to be 'right' and 'wrong' I'm sure
there are some titles that have very good driving
experiences/physics/simulation that don't have a***pit view....but they
don't have my $$ either.
dave henrie

by **double** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:57:31

Speak for myself? Aren't you agreeing with me? My point was, non-cockpit
views do nothing for me, and I'm assuming, most of you others.

Wait..... now that I re-read what I typed, I'm more confused. Forget I said
anything. :-)

> > yes, it's too bad [most of us auto-simmers?] don't get all hot and
> bothered
> > over non-cockpit views. I know I certainly don't.
> Speak for yourself....when a NEW title, one that hasn't been seen
> before(i.e. NOT a GP 3 or 4 but say Rally Trophy), The very first screen
> shot I want to see is a***pit view. Why? Glad I asked....:)
> 1) Outside replay views often are 'glitzier' than actual ingame
> shots...Watch those TV commercials for console sports games...do you see
> actual gameplay when they display Madden 2002? Do we see ingame action
from
> the latest NBA title, or hockey? NOPE...we see replays which often run at
a
> higher resolution than actual gameplay. Thus, outside views MAY be used
to
> mislead the buying public.
> 2) Games that don't have***pit views in early screenshots often are
> titles that have, in the past, been heavily weighted toward arcade values,
> so I am leary of companies that DON'T show incar views.
> 3) If there are no in-car***pit views, this may indicate they
> programmers have not attempted to really simulate the vehicle in question.
> By that I mean feedback from a***pit often means the whole car is
modeled,
> not just a visible nose that will magically dip down everytime I press the
> brake pedal. I look for***pit shots to verify that the programmers are
> TRYING to implement code that will help with the immersion factor rather
> than ellicit ooohhhs and aaaahhhhs over the pretty sunsets.
> 4) I'm not buying a racing simulation that simulates Kite Flying above
> and behind the car. If I buy a racing title, it's to at least at SOME
> level, to experience what racing a real life car is like...I haven't, at
> least in 40+ years, found a car that is controled while floating behind
> it....
> There is no technical defense for this last reason, it is based purely on
my
> subjective knowledge of what I perceive to be 'right' and 'wrong' I'm
sure
> there are some titles that have very good driving
> experiences/physics/simulation that don't have a***pit view....but they
> don't have my $$ either.
> dave henrie

by **Bart Westr** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:22:28

> > let the comments begin ...

> ........

> The core assembler game engine is still present probably, and until it is
there,
> the sim won't be worth anything. I mean it's 2002, WHEN WILL GEOFF START
> SKIPPING FRAMES instead of time bending and other stupid tricks a decade
> old?????.

How on earth can you tell this from an early screen shot? Don't you ever get
tired of repeating your mantra?

Bart Westra

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:09:37

> I was as big a fan of GP1 and GP2 as anyone else - but GP3 was appauling -
> and GP4 is showing the same early signs of being little different

> Doug

GP 1 was great (though come to think of it, it never worked with a
joystick! But for it's time this was easy to forgive). GP 2 was my first
experience of being teased by "what could have been". It was way to
ahead of the then current cpu's.
Then my experience with GP 3. Hmmmm. Didn't work out of the box
with V2. Are they kidding????? So I get fix and the first thing I see is
the same idiotic fixed frame rate caper. Are they kidding?????? And then
I remind myself that even if I get this pile of ***going that I wont
be racing it on the net! Are they kidding???????? Have they heard about
GPL or even Nascar 3?????? Or how about even Nascar 2 ?????
And now this poor thing is in the 12 month fudge update cycle!
GOODBYE! Crammond is just another past enthusiast turned cash in
merchant.

by **Andre Warrin** » Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:37:32

On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:09:37 +1100, Byron Forbes

> GP 1 was great (though come to think of it, it never worked with a
>joystick!

Yes it did.. both the Amiga and PC versions supported joysticks.

Yup.. Pc's who could run GP2 with a full field without the ridiculous
slow-motion effect weren't even invented back then.. That would take
another 2 years.

Err.. the v2 was allready prehistoric when GP3 was released :)
Same as F1 2001 not supporting v3 cards. We want our games to be
better, so we need to buy better hardware too.

Crammond has a wicked sense of humour eh?

Some people believe the FIA forbids a good working multiplayer.
Some people believe in Santa too.

GP3 2000 was very good actually.. untill another
could-have-been-excellent sim came along, F1 2001.
Sigh.

Andre

by **ymenar** » Sun, 17 Feb 2002 01:26:45

> > The core assembler game engine is still present probably, and until it
is> there,
> > the sim won't be worth anything. I mean it's 2002, WHEN WILL GEOFF
START
> > SKIPPING FRAMES instead of time bending and other stupid tricks a decade
> > old?????.

> How on earth can you tell this from an early screen shot?

We were able to tell that for GP3 also. It's obvious. Just wait and see...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Sun, 17 Feb 2002 03:16:24

should I get a smaller monitor?

--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Sun, 17 Feb 2002 03:37:42

As a V2 owner for the GP3 release and a V3 owner when F12k hit the shops, I
don't see the logic nor the humour in that first statement.

I don't agree with the second statement either. As N2002 and Rally Trophy
clearly show it's possible to code games which still look nice and move
adequately on "older" cards, provided there's a decent size processor
pushing the show (PIII655 o'ced to 866 here, which is not all that hot
either). 800x600x16 would probably hurt on a 19" monitor, granted, which is
part of the reason I'm sticking with my trusty old 14".

At the moment, every game I feel an urge to give more than a cursory glance
to runs good enough for me and I can't even see a "must upgrade" game on the
horizon yet. If I was really into FPS', Medal of Honour would have prompted
me to go out and get some new gear, but, seeing as I'm not, when the demo
gets all in knots and shows horrible texture corruption, I just shrug and
uninstall.

That said, it would be nice to sample some of that stuff. I do have a TNT2
Ultra around here somewhere, but I've so far held back from putting it in my
PC as I was told I might run into trouble as my case only has a 230W power
supply. Also, how do you rate my chances of getting GPL to run adequately on
this card?

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

by **Ice** » Sun, 17 Feb 2002 03:48:47

> > http://www.spelletjesgarnaal.be/news/images/20020214/gp4_1.gif
> > http://www.spelletjesgarnaal.be/news/images/20020214/gp4_2.gif
> > http://www.spelletjesgarnaal.be/news/images/20020214/gp4_3.gif
> > http://www.spelletjesgarnaal.be/news/images/20020214/gp4_4.gif

> > let the comments begin ...

> should I get a smaller monitor?

No, you play it on your mobile phone.

(follow the thread, there's a link to some normal size screenshots)

Ice D

by **Andre Warring** » Sun, 17 Feb 2002 05:52:26

On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:37:42 +0100, "Jan Verschueren"

>"Andre Warringa" wrote...
>> Err.. the v2 was allready prehistoric when GP3 was
>> released :)
>> Same as F1 2001 not supporting v3 cards. We want
>> our games to be better, so we need to buy better
>> hardware too.

>As a V2 owner for the GP3 release and a V3 owner when F12k hit the shops, I
>don't see the logic nor the humour in that first statement.

Lighten up a bit Jan.. new games have better physics and more eyecandy
so they simply require more horsepower. Sooner or later there comes a
time when a new game does not run well on your system anymore.

You are very correct that some games are programmed in a very
inefficient way (RT is a bad example - try a race against the AI cars
at Finland, fps disaster making it unplayable, but in single player it
runs perfect), but for example to get N2002 running with a full field
you need quite some horsepower too.
An extremely good programmed sim is IL2.. I run it with everything at
maximum detail, in 1024 res, on my p3 500 gf2 and it looks so damn
gorgeous..

I love all the 16bit addons for GPL, but my v3 simply couldn't handle
it because of its limited texture memory. So.. time to move on to a
better card. I bought the GF2 GTS when the GF3 was released, so it was
quite cheap. I will buy a GF3 when the new GF4 cards have been
released and the GF3 drops in price.

Shame.. MoH is really a very good fps.. too short and a shitty ending
though, but multiplayer is very good.

I don't have the TNT2 Ultra so I can't really help you, but why don't
you simply try it? You can allways go back to your other card (which
card are you using now btw?)

Cheers,
Andre

rec.autos.simulators

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action

First screenshots of GP4 in action