rec.autos.simulators

The TRUTH about CPR

Marc Collin

The TRUTH about CPR

by Marc Collin » Wed, 05 Nov 1997 04:00:00

Frame rates of 25 to 30 with most of the graphic options OFF is not very
good?  What options are you running with and what frame rates do you get
with everything on?


>This posting is to clear up some misinformation I've noticed on this
>newsgoup regarding CPR. The sim is a tremendous product. The problems
>people are having (frame rate, handling) are within their own system, not
>within the CPR product. I have the full version, and on this system:
>Gateway 200mmx, 32 megs, STB 4 meg graphics card, NO 3dfx card, I have
>frame rates consistently around 25 and as high as 30! Again, no 3dfx card.
>Graphics are fabulous, and handling is amazing. Smooth, precise, and
>accurate. With a T2, I'm able to do 200 mph while a foot away from the wall
>with no problem. Play with the handling settings (I have linear and speed
>sensitive sliders all the way to the right). Read the FAQ's and learn how
>to adjust the handling and the AI.  Every graphic and sound option you
>enable takes away from your frame rate and affects game play. For example,
>turn your sound to mono and 8 bit and you add 3fps. Turn off the map. Some
>problems can be easily fixed with a very SIMPLE solution. Do a re-install
>and make sure you have at least 150 megs of free space on your hard drive.
>The facts are, my system is not unusual and I am getting the performance
>I've described, so if you are having problems, it lies within your system,
>NOT the product. A 3dfx card will only make this sim even more amazing and
>will enable you to use all the graphics and sound options and achieve an
>even higher frame rate. Also, game zone play is excellent. The CART team
>has created a tremendous sim.

Chris Watkin

The TRUTH about CPR

by Chris Watkin » Wed, 05 Nov 1997 04:00:00

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small question.......
  I downloaded this yesterday, and havent played with it a *lot*, yet...
and I haven't noticed the "dirt" looking track, and other things people
keep talking about,,, (unless I run in the lowest resolution, then you cant
see where to turn)
 I have noticed that my gameplay reduces, as others have mentioned, when
the hardware acceleration is set to  "ON".
  It looks to be a pretty awesome sim, especially for those of you with the
faster machines, I bet... but here's my question....actually, there are
two.

1) how do you determine framerate in this game......?

2) where is the "crew chief" help, and tuning that I have heard of...?

thanks for any replies  :)


> This posting is to clear up some misinformation I've noticed on this
> newsgoup regarding CPR. The sim is a tremendous product. The problems
> people are having (frame rate, handling) are within their own system, not
> within the CPR product. I have the full version, and on this system:
> Gateway 200mmx, 32 megs, STB 4 meg graphics card, NO 3dfx card, I have
> frame rates consistently around 25 and as high as 30! Again, no 3dfx card.
> Graphics are fabulous, and handling is amazing. Smooth, precise, and
> accurate. With a T2, I'm able to do 200 mph while a foot away from the wall
> with no problem. Play with the handling settings (I have linear and speed
> sensitive sliders all the way to the right). Read the FAQ's and learn how
> to adjust the handling and the AI.  Every graphic and sound option you
> enable takes away from your frame rate and affects game play. For example,
> turn your sound to mono and 8 bit and you add 3fps. Turn off the map. Some
> problems can be easily fixed with a very SIMPLE solution. Do a re-install
> and make sure you have at least 150 megs of free space on your hard drive.
> The facts are, my system is not unusual and I am getting the performance
> I've described, so if you are having problems, it lies within your system,
> NOT the product. A 3dfx card will only make this sim even more amazing and
> will enable you to use all the graphics and sound options and achieve an
> even higher frame rate. Also, game zone play is excellent. The CART team
> has created a tremendous sim.

--

 Handy^Man                                    
 IVGA 4924              ~~pulling for #8 in 1998 ! :)~~
 ICQ 3551448                    GOoooo #3 !!
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title:          ICQ 3551448
note:           Pulling for #8 in 98~~~!!!!! Goooo #3 !!
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XRaceTr

The TRUTH about CPR

by XRaceTr » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00


>1) how do you determine framerate in this game......?

type the word "frame" (not the quotes though) when you start the
race/test session. There is a little tiny display in the lower right
corner... Then hit the "m" again to get rid of the map...

Only in the full product as far as I know....

- Mike.

====================================================
 Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
 I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

dles..

The TRUTH about CPR

by dles.. » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Thanks for your posting!

Yes, there are many many people enjoying CPR
without necessarily posting a message saying so.

Postings, as always, mainly focus on the negative. Though
this is not necessarily a bad thing - tells us what to
work on first!   ;)

We encourage everyone reading this group to
download the trial and make up their own minds.

That's what it's for.

And keep sending the feedback - we are working with TRi
right now looking at ALL the postings and email.

fyi - my teams also develop Flight Simulator, and it is
through precisely this feedback process that that Sim has
stayed so strong.

And thanks for all the feedback already submitted - it is
not being ignored. Far from it ...

Expect news soon.

MS/TRi CPR Team.

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Chris Watkin

The TRUTH about CPR

by Chris Watkin » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00



> >small question.......
> >  I downloaded this yesterday, and havent played with it a *lot*, yet...
> >and I haven't noticed the "dirt" looking track, and other things people
> >keep talking about,,, (unless I run in the lowest resolution, then you cant
> >see where to turn)

> Hey Chris,

> 1) Be sure to have the latest drivers.

> 2) Be sure you have set the "GAMMA" for your drivers. Some monitors and video
> carda are dark to begin with.

well...like I said, I don't have a problem with it, unless I run in the
lowest res.  :)

I know... I wasn't slamming the sim... and I have been messin' with the
options.... I just noted that the gameplay reduced when hardware
acceleration was turned "on". also, I don't even have the system to be
making any real valid arguments for or against anything... I think last
time I checked....I was only benchmarking around 60% of a pentium 133 LOL!
I'm still stuck using this ole wannabe pentium amd486  (5x86xP75).

thanks for the answers  :)

--

 Handy^Man                                    
 IVGA 4924              ~~pulling for #8 in 1998 ! :)~~
 ICQ 3551448                    GOoooo #3 !!

SimRaci

The TRUTH about CPR

by SimRaci » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00

Hi David,

This posting is too clear_away some of the fog too...This is not a
flame, as I appreciate and respect your view.  =)

The problem with this statement (regarding frame rate) is that system
performance goes hand_in_hand with the game's "overhead."  IMHO the
game's requirements are far too great for the majority of those who
will either purchase it or simply download the trial version.  The
basic beef I have with CPR is that there isn't enough items to switch
to an acceptable setting for decent gameplay.

As an example, in other sims you can turn-off textures to objects, but
have the objects remain.  This helps with using points on the track as
a reference for turn-ins, brake-points, etc.  If you're forced to turn
down the level of detail, and also loose all (or most) of your visual
aids, then you can't do what a few others can - like turning a fast
lap.  This comes from my own real racing experience, and not something
pulled from the sim archives.

Your system is only slightly above what I would call "minimum-req's"
for running the game successfully.  I look at it from a realist POV,
rather than a marketing standpoint.  I have a P166, and even though it
can't match the performance of any of the newer systems out there, it
benchmarks higher than any other 166 (standard chipset) I've seen.  I
think that my system is "above average" for what others have currently.

Too many in this newsgroup seem to have a bad case of tunnel-vision in
regards to what they feel is "an average system" - not to say that I'm
any less guilty, but since my business_world revolves around systems
(and my personal_world revolves around sims), my take on the whole
deal may be less clouded than most.

BTW, I too have the full version.  Sits all by its lonesome on a 4.3gb
Deskstar drive.  =)

Perhaps not 100% perfect for the "real_world", but certainly perfect
for "my_world."  =)  I too find the handling and physics very nicely
put together.

Your points are well taken, and others should try them before passing
judgement on what I think is a nice sim.  Looks as though MS/TRI are
in it for the long_haul, and this is a good thing for us simmers!  =)

However, there's too many ON/OFF options combining both textures and
objects, and not enough ON/OFF for this texture (but leave the bridge
where it is) type of thing.

The fact is, although your system is not "unusual" it certainly isn't
the "norm" for most (as my statements above outline).

True - higher, but not enough unless you have at least an MMX/P-166.

This statement alone could start a fire in the rain!  The overhead of
CART, coupled with the (assumed) overhead of the two-browser windows
running (not to mention if Win95 burps), will surely lead to a less
than satisfying experience on the Zone.  Plenty of this may have to do
with the speed of your modem, and this in itself wouldn't be so bad if
all you had to do was buy a faster one.

The problem is the modem you connect to when playing this sim...You
know, the one that's lying in some building a half_klick away?  I don't
know about you, but the fastest connection (on paper) I can get is 28.8
(set to 56k), unless I dial out of the county.  Analysis: better think
about an ISDN if you can't (reasonably) connect to a 56k server.  Just
too many things happening at once in the same place - a bottle neck
that is (for the most part) out of the user's hands.

Agreed!  CPR, GP2, and soon GPL...Mucho good things to keep us warm and
cozy for years...<sound of rustling paper>..Now where did I put that ad
I saw about the ASUS-AGP+PII-266?...I see it's time to do some creative
financing...

...again.  ;)

Cheers!

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing Online / Sim Racing News / The Sim Project
http://members.aol.com/simracing

Getz

The TRUTH about CPR

by Getz » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00

I am not exactly sure what you mean there, but I will throw in my own
experience with racing on the Zone: generally excellent.

I have been in races with anywhere from 2 to 5 racers and it has been
great fun. If someone has a high latency to the Zone (which is easy to
see), then there can be some warping, but thankfully the sim runs at
full speed regardless. In a race with 4 racers and good latencies,
there was essentially no warping -- a very smooth race.

Compared to my racing on Kali, racing with CPR in the Zone is far
superior.

Jim Getzen

---------------------------------------------
Unofficial CART Precision Racing Headquarters
http://members.home.net/getzen/
---------------------------------------------

John Walla

The TRUTH about CPR

by John Walla » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00


This is precisely what I am hoping with CPR. It's an impressive first
effort (although not without it's flaws as you see on the newsgroup),
but applying the same process of continuous imrovement as seen with
the FS series should see stronger and stronger products in future.

BTW, one request. Is it possible to not quote the w-h-o-l-e message
you are responding to and just add your comments to the bottom? It's
bat netiquette (I hate that word!) and annoying to scroll down to see
the response. It's more polite to quote only the sections you are
responding to, and even then only enough of that to give the gist of
what was said.

Looking forward to the results of all these discussions, your office
must be a whirl of discussions just now :)

Cheers!
John

John Walla

The TRUTH about CPR

by John Walla » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00



One major flaw in your message - you're assuming that you know more
about system configuration than everyone else on this newsgroup. We
KNOW about all the configuration options, have tried them all, and are
STILL less than satisfied.

Cheers!
John

Randy BO

The TRUTH about CPR

by Randy BO » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00

 got into a multiplayer CART PR game on the internet or via the zone.>>

Eric,

I've done several races and attempts to race on the Zone.  My feeling is that
 the latency and spikes are just too big to make it as fun as it should be.  I
 was trying to run down a slower car at Laguna Seca -- as long as I was well
 away from him things were acceptable, but as I got closer, the warping just
 got so bad that I was bashing into the back of him because he was 'beaming'
 forward and back.    There was no "precision" involved (pardon the pun).  The
 problem doesn't happen much in regular modem play, though -- just Internet
 play.  I'm not sure what can be done about it.  This is a latency/Internet
 problem and the only solution I see is to try to build yourself a low latency
 network the way many of the online *** services are doing.  One thing that
 COULD be done is that you could do profile testing of a user's latency, give
 them an index, and then allow those that host games to specify maximum latency
 allowed so that only people with low enough latency could join the game.  TEN
 does this, and it used to be that I couldn't even play Red Alert sometimes
 because of poor latency, but at least I wasn't dragging everyone else down.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Jo

The TRUTH about CPR

by Jo » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00


>While we're on the subject of the zone, can you comment on whether there
>will ever be support for Netscape Navigator?

I think anyone who has observed Microsoft can answer that with a firm
an unqualified NO.

Joe

Ronald Stoe

The TRUTH about CPR

by Ronald Stoe » Thu, 06 Nov 1997 04:00:00




> >This posting is to clear up some misinformation I've noticed on this
> >newsgoup regarding CPR.

> One major flaw in your message - you're assuming that you know more
> about system configuration than everyone else on this newsgroup. We
> KNOW about all the configuration options, have tried them all, and are
> STILL less than satisfied.

John, he's right about our inferior system setups. I think, that's the
reason I'm getting 41 fps in glQuake and 15 fps in CART... 8^)

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

John Walla

The TRUTH about CPR

by John Walla » Fri, 07 Nov 1997 04:00:00



It's on the schedule of things to do for the developers. It's on the
list right below the item that says "Include Zone support for ICR2 and
NASCAR2"....

Don't hold your breath...

Cheers!
John

Jarrod A. Smit

The TRUTH about CPR

by Jarrod A. Smit » Fri, 07 Nov 1997 04:00:00


> =

> =
> >While we're on the subject of the zone, can you comment on whether the=
re
> >will ever be support for Netscape Navigator?
> =
> I think anyone who has observed Microsoft can answer that with a firm
> an unqualified NO.

Well, I agree with you.  I only ask because when you try to load www.zone=
=2Ecom in
Navigator, it says:

"We're sorry. The new Zone doesn't currently support...Netscape=AE Naviga=
tor
browsers"

"Doesn't currently" implies that it will subsequent to now, but like you =
said, I
have no faith in this since the "browser war" continues to rage on.

Anyway, will one of the Microsoft guys please answer this?

-- =


The Scripps Research Institute
http://www.scripps.edu/~jsmith

Jo

The TRUTH about CPR

by Jo » Fri, 07 Nov 1997 04:00:00


I believe the answer to that question is also "no". ;-)

Joe


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