rec.autos.simulators

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

flightlessvac..

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by flightlessvac.. » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:29:11


> Even with it's age and it's faults, Grand Prix Legends just makes you
> feel good.  Everyone involved in developing that game should be very
> proud.  Games like that don't come around very often.

Stop living in the past.
Larr

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Larr » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:25:15

I think it has potential to be a 9.2, but not yet.

-Larry



Larr

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Larr » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:27:48

Fine Wine's do :)

-Larry



>> Even with it's age and it's faults, Grand Prix Legends just makes you
>> feel good.  Everyone involved in developing that game should be very
>> proud.  Games like that don't come around very often.

> Stop living in the past.

Larr

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Larr » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:30:37

Good post Steve.

For the first time, I find myself wanting to like an EA based Nascar SIM.
I'm about 80% the way there.

They've got some issues to deal with.  I have hope :)

-Larry


> Randy seems to have a blind eye for ISI.  A close look at the file
> structure
> shows NSR is far more closely related to ISI's sims than Papy's.  And
> since
> First bought the rights to Papy's code, it looks like the divide will
> continue (if First ever actually stops feeding the lawyers and gets some
> product out the door).

> Randy has also forgotten some sims he must have played.  He yearns for an
> "automatic difficulty" system to speed up or slow down the AI cars based
> on
> the player's speed.  Need for Speed had that in the previous century.
> Grand
> Prix Legends had that seven years ago (everybody hated it).  But
> otherwise,
> I agree with his review.  The graphics are great.  The UI works.  The AI
> and
> rules algorithms need some work.  Even the road-racing is serviceable.

> Papy's games have always been more realistic to drive, but that was all
> you
> got.  EA has***ed around with various "career" modes in an effort to
> bolster gameplay.  Most have been hokey, but at least somebody is trying
> to
> put something on the table besides a great physics model.  There is more
> to
> racing than going fast...but probably less than depicted in "Days of
> Thunder."  If Papy sims have always been "Le Mans," EA's sims have been
> "Grand Prix."

> The amazing thing is that EA allowed its code monkeys to produce a
> hard-core
> (well, maybe more Jessica Simpson than Jenna Jameson) sim that's still
> accessible to casual players.  IMO, EA/Tiburon's biggest contribution to
> advancing the art of racing sims, IMO, are the "stackable" info screens.
> Great idea!




>> >Randy has written most of the best racing sim reviews I've had the
>> >pleasure of reading ... for years.  Good to see he is still
>> >around.  Now off to that review ...
>> Well I remember Randy from the old days and his review of EA's game
>> is pretty generous to my mind.  EA may have gotten "ex papy" people
>> but I think they got the losers.  All the good ones went with the
>> lawyers to F1rst Racing lol.  Sorry to see him suck up to the big
>> company.

flightlessvac..

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by flightlessvac.. » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:12:13

A very good review for what is clearly the new benchmark for Nascar
simulations.

Let's hope EA's reign will be at least as long as Papyrus's was.

not spa

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by not spa » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:39:57


That would be valid if I didnt't run in two GPL leagues this week. The
65 mod is still the most fun I've had driving a sim car.  The past is
now my friend.

Steve Smit

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Steve Smit » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:32:49

You ain't seen nuthin' yet.  If SimBin manages to sort out GTR (they're
about 85% there), they'll rule...altho I suspect it will take until they
come out w. the rFactor-based GTR2.  Of course, that's road racing.  I've
been very impressed with the care and attention EA Tiburon has been
lavishing on the beta testers and beta testing for NSR.  You don't spend
that kind of time and effort and money unless you're dead serious about
making it work.  And for the kind of moolah EA laid out to get an exclusive
(it undoubtedly would have been cheaper to buy Papyrus, and you'd think
cash-strapped VU would have been only too happy to sell), they'd damn well
better lean into it.


> Good post Steve.

> For the first time, I find myself wanting to like an EA based Nascar SIM.
> I'm about 80% the way there.

> They've got some issues to deal with.  I have hope :)

> -Larry



> > Randy seems to have a blind eye for ISI.  A close look at the file
> > structure
> > shows NSR is far more closely related to ISI's sims than Papy's.  And
> > since
> > First bought the rights to Papy's code, it looks like the divide will
> > continue (if First ever actually stops feeding the lawyers and gets some
> > product out the door).

> > Randy has also forgotten some sims he must have played.  He yearns for
an
> > "automatic difficulty" system to speed up or slow down the AI cars based
> > on
> > the player's speed.  Need for Speed had that in the previous century.
> > Grand
> > Prix Legends had that seven years ago (everybody hated it).  But
> > otherwise,
> > I agree with his review.  The graphics are great.  The UI works.  The AI
> > and
> > rules algorithms need some work.  Even the road-racing is serviceable.

> > Papy's games have always been more realistic to drive, but that was all
> > you
> > got.  EA has***ed around with various "career" modes in an effort to
> > bolster gameplay.  Most have been hokey, but at least somebody is trying
> > to
> > put something on the table besides a great physics model.  There is more
> > to
> > racing than going fast...but probably less than depicted in "Days of
> > Thunder."  If Papy sims have always been "Le Mans," EA's sims have been
> > "Grand Prix."

> > The amazing thing is that EA allowed its code monkeys to produce a
> > hard-core
> > (well, maybe more Jessica Simpson than Jenna Jameson) sim that's still
> > accessible to casual players.  IMO, EA/Tiburon's biggest contribution to
> > advancing the art of racing sims, IMO, are the "stackable" info screens.
> > Great idea!




> >> >Randy has written most of the best racing sim reviews I've had the
> >> >pleasure of reading ... for years.  Good to see he is still
> >> >around.  Now off to that review ...
> >> Well I remember Randy from the old days and his review of EA's game
> >> is pretty generous to my mind.  EA may have gotten "ex papy" people
> >> but I think they got the losers.  All the good ones went with the
> >> lawyers to F1rst Racing lol.  Sorry to see him suck up to the big
> >> company.

Remco Moe

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Remco Moe » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:06:27

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 02:18:28 GMT, "Steve Smith"


>Randy has also forgotten some sims he must have played.  He yearns for an
>"automatic difficulty" system to speed up or slow down the AI cars based on
>the player's speed.  Need for Speed had that in the previous century.  Grand
>Prix Legends had that seven years ago (everybody hated it).  

Not everybody...I personally think it's the best way to do it. I
remember racing the AI in GPL for months untill I succeeded in winning
races. I really had to fight to earn places.

In sims like the ones from ISI it is just passing the AI on the
straight, where they don't go faster than 50 mph....urgh.

Cheers!

Remco

Steve Blankenshi

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Steve Blankenshi » Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:50:58



> > Even with it's age and it's faults, Grand Prix Legends just makes you
> > feel good.  Everyone involved in developing that game should be very
> > proud.  Games like that don't come around very often.

> Stop living in the past.

1. You're quoting the wrong poster, Jethro.

2. Whoooshhh....

not spa

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by not spa » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:33:18


It will be as long as they keep paying money to keep real competition
out.  Screw EA.  I hate to rain on your parade.

not spa

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by not spa » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:38:43

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:32:49 GMT, "Steve Smith"


>You ain't seen nuthin' yet.  If SimBin manages to sort out GTR (they're
>about 85% there), they'll rule...altho I suspect it will take until they
>come out w. the rFactor-based GTR2.  Of course, that's road racing.  I've
>been very impressed with the care and attention EA Tiburon has been
>lavishing on the beta testers and beta testing for NSR.  You don't spend
>that kind of time and effort and money unless you're dead serious about
>making it work.  And for the kind of moolah EA laid out to get an exclusive
>(it undoubtedly would have been cheaper to buy Papyrus, and you'd think
>cash-strapped VU would have been only too happy to sell), they'd damn well
>better lean into it.

I don't care what they do with the product, I have a major problem
with a big company excluding everyone else.  There is no incentive to
create a better product.  Nascar morons will buy whatever they're
given.  One only has to look at the t shirts they wear to see that.
ISI and F1rst racing are where I'm turning to. EA can rot in hell.
Plowbo

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Plowbo » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 01:06:10

Another quote...
It's been six years in coming, but EA has finally delivered the goods. They
rewrote their physics engine, spent extra long months tweaking and tuning
and testing after the console versions shipped. The extra time has paid off
handsomely...

Is this like saying "if you like raw food like say, sushi, you'll love our
undercooked hambergers...?

What the hell did they do in Beta Testing?  I fking hat to think how bad it
was, back when they though "well it is done, lets see what they find wrong
with it" or do they actually just go through "beta-test" only to fullfill
accepted developement cycles?

Schooner enlightened us with:

> "For multiplayer racing, EA has finally raised their game to the
> point where you can theoretically race in a full 43-car grid online.
> I did some test races with the folks at EA, as well as some members
> of the NASCAR *** community, and I have been pleased with the
> results. There's not too much lag, and all the options Papyrus gave
> us for setting up and running race servers are here in abundance,
> including a dedicated race server program if you're running a league
> or just feel charitable."
> Hmm, so its good but laggy and has all the admin features we need yet
> I have read many posts already that states it has hardly any admin
> features at all.

> "Unfortunately, even if you follow every audible and visual
> instruction, the game can shaft you when it gets confused about where
> you are and what you should be doing."

> "In the course of a single caution, while accurately following the
> computer's directions, I still managed to go a lap down and earn a
> stop and go penalty. The in-game instructions in that situation were
> neither accurate nor timely: I was told to slow down to get behind a
> certain car. When I slowed down, I got a warning that I was going too
> slow and almost immediately was told I'd lost my place in the line
> for going too slow, even though I was just waiting for the other car
> to catch up to me."
> "After pitting, I exited the pit lane as the pace car was going by,
> and slowed to fall back to the end of the line, only to be told that
> I had lapped the field under yellow and would be assessed a stop and
> go. Things like this forced me to turn on the "auto-drive" feature
> during cautions. But even that mode didn't work right. I was told
> that I was the "Lucky Dog" and that I should proceed past the pace
> car to get my lap back. But the AI driving my car refused to budge.
> And I could not override it! So, I didn't feel like such a "Lucky
> Dog" after all.
> That will be an issue if it cannot properly track car placements.

> "Fortunately, you can turn off yellows and tweak other rules to
> minimize the negative effects of these problems until a fix is
> available. For multiplayer, it is a serious issue that will probably
> have many leagues resorting to turning off yellow flags until it is
> fixed."
> Thats nice, just turn off yellows for now for online.

> And it got a 9.2

> Maybe a patch will fix all these issues but it seems to have some
> glaring bugs already :(



>> Never heard of the guy. Does he own a wheel.
>> Or is he just an EA brown noser ?

>> says...
>>> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>>> 9.2 out of 10.

Chris Klin

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Chris Klin » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 01:48:31

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 20:49:41 -0500, "Dean Purdy"


>Thanks for the heads up Dave. This is the one review I've been waiting for.
>Randy has always been a straight shooter and I've always trusted and
>respected his views.

Really. RM also thinks Gran Turismo is the best thing since sliced
bread while I think it's pure arcade eye candy console shite.
Larr

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Larr » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:31:46

I know some people like GTR, but I have to be honest and say I'm definitely
not one of them.

It has that old ISI engine feel to it.  Like driving on Ice.  Not enough
feedback to the driver.  Feels like the rotation point is WAY off and
centered about 2 feet in front of the driver.

It's a feeling I've had every since EA came out with the F1 titles (and I
have all of them) and I can't shake it.

I feel a _small_ amount of that in NSR but I think I can deal with it.

To me, the only SIM since NR200x that feels substantial to me has been
rFactor.  It apparantly has a 2nd generation ISI engine in it and I think
it's superior in every way to GTR.  It is my understanding that GTR uses the
old engine that was in the F1 series so I'm not suprised I feel the way I
do.

I have hope for NSR but I have a lot of work to do to get where I want to
be.

-Larry


Steve Smit

NSR Review By Randy Magruder

by Steve Smit » Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:49:41

Considering the rotation point in front-engined cars IS abt. 2 feet ahead of
the drivers, maybe that's why I like the FE cars (like the Vertigo Streiff
and the C5-R) in GTR a lot better than the RE cars (like the Saleen and the
Porsches...altho, to be fair, the German wunderwagens are a lot like that in
real life: initial front-end washout followed by snap oversteer).


> I know some people like GTR, but I have to be honest and say I'm
definitely
> not one of them.

> It has that old ISI engine feel to it.  Like driving on Ice.  Not enough
> feedback to the driver.  Feels like the rotation point is WAY off and
> centered about 2 feet in front of the driver.

> It's a feeling I've had every since EA came out with the F1 titles (and I
> have all of them) and I can't shake it.

> I feel a _small_ amount of that in NSR but I think I can deal with it.

> To me, the only SIM since NR200x that feels substantial to me has been
> rFactor.  It apparantly has a 2nd generation ISI engine in it and I think
> it's superior in every way to GTR.  It is my understanding that GTR uses
the
> old engine that was in the F1 series so I'm not suprised I feel the way I
> do.

> I have hope for NSR but I have a lot of work to do to get where I want to
> be.

> -Larry



> > You ain't seen nuthin' yet.  If SimBin manages to sort out GTR (they're
> > about 85% there), they'll rule...altho I suspect it will take until they
> > come out w. the rFactor-based GTR2.  Of course, that's road racing.
I've
> > been very impressed with the care and attention EA Tiburon has been
> > lavishing on the beta testers and beta testing for NSR.  You don't spend
> > that kind of time and effort and money unless you're dead serious about
> > making it work.  And for the kind of moolah EA laid out to get an
> > exclusive
> > (it undoubtedly would have been cheaper to buy Papyrus, and you'd think
> > cash-strapped VU would have been only too happy to sell), they'd damn
well
> > better lean into it.


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