rec.autos.simulators

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

Tony

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Tony » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00

 I thought that I was a good sim racer until I played MGPRS, I suck!!
That's strange because I was good  at GP2 with all the driving aids
turned off.  Now back to Sports Car GT, I enjoy playing the game,car
the car control seems to be spot on.  I just wanted to know what you
guys/gals on RAS think.  Is it a Sim or an Arcade Racer?  

One more Question:  Are there any other F1 sims that are good?  After
2 years of playing MGPRS, I've come to the conclution that the game is
not for me.      

Scott B. Huste

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Scott B. Huste » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Tony,

Im going to get flamed to hell for this... but Im use to it <G>   I,
personally, feel SCGT is somewhere in between.  The patches that the
parties out there created definitely improved SCGT.  As released.... it
was pure arcade.   Now, though better, I put it somewhere in between.
SCGT was close to being a great sim, but didn't quite get there in the
physics category.

I used to race SCCA (Spec Racers, Sports 2000, and a bit of GT-1).  In my
opinion, if GT-1 cars handle like the GT-1 cars in SCGT... then the earths
gravity and physics have changed since I raced <VBG>  BTW - Yes,  I have
the advanced physics patch, etc and have the settings correct.

If you could take the general characteristics of SCGT, and combine them
with the physics of Viper Racing... you would have one heck of a kick-ass
sports car simulation!

My .02 and Im sure you are going to get many contrary opinions Tony =)

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

friendly pysc

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by friendly pysc » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Maybe World Sports Car will deliver our dreams. From the looks of it and
what the developers are saying it should be quite an experience. Personally,
I'm definitely looking forward to this one

--
the friendly pysco

-I know it's spelled wrong but I'm not a psycho ;-)
-A day without sun is like... night

Scott B. Huste

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Scott B. Huste » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I agree.  We at PowerSims.com have been talking with Chris and Tony quite a bit
over the last month or so about WSC, hence our first look pages.

I am not doubting Tony or Chris in the least, but I think most sim fans will
agree that we cannot count on anything being the next 'great sim' until after it
has been released.  We see alot of those promises get broken due to the
marketing hype.  For example,  what was EA Sports claiming?  Something like
NASCAR Revolution being the only true driveable racing sim?   I don't know if it
is driveable or not, but It sure wasn't "raceable" and it definitely wasn't a
sim <VBG>

That being said, Tony and Chris are the developers and not the "marketing"
department so I am hopeful and taking their words at face value and believing in
them until its proven otherwise.  I sure hope they deliver because we as a sim
racing community deserve it!

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

GTX_SlotCa

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by GTX_SlotCa » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Well, we won't flame Scott for his opinion, but I sure disagree. Out of the
box SCGT is a very good sim. The GTQ class (which of course doesn't really
exist), when loaded with all the options money can buy (in the game), is
very close to the real GT3. The GT3 and 2 in the sim are off (unless GT3
cars can do over 190mph now), but the GT1 is also quite good.  But as I
recall from my younger days, the GTQ (as a GT3) is the most accurate of any
sim I've tried. Its nice to see a sim where time was spent on the physics
engine instead of just making it slippery. Of course, these cars are
probably the easiest to model. I don't know why so many sim drivers think
all cars should handle and stop like they're on ice. I expect the sim car to
handle and stop better than my family sedan.

Slot


> I thought that I was a good sim racer until I played MGPRS, I suck!!
>That's strange because I was good  at GP2 with all the driving aids
>turned off.  Now back to Sports Car GT, I enjoy playing the game,car
>the car control seems to be spot on.  I just wanted to know what you
>guys/gals on RAS think.  Is it a Sim or an Arcade Racer?

>One more Question:  Are there any other F1 sims that are good?  After
>2 years of playing MGPRS, I've come to the conclution that the game is
>not for me.

Arne Marti

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Arne Marti » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00


> That being said, Tony and Chris are the developers and not the "marketing"
> department so I am hopeful and taking their words at face value and believing in
> them until its proven otherwise.

Yes, this is indeed some of what makes me believe this could be the next
great one. They're independent developers who make what they visualize
as a great product, not marketers who wants to make what sells. Sure
Empire does have some opinions and influence on what gets developed, but
no way near as much as an in-house development team... at least that's
what I hope :-)

I'm more fearing that this will have lots of bugs or some critical part
not working properly (AI or somesuch), than it being dumbed down.

--
Arne Martin

Michael Barlo

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Michael Barlo » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00




> >I don't know why so many sim drivers think
> > all cars should handle and stop like they're on ice. I expect the sim car
> to
> > handle and stop better than my family sedan.

> > Slot

> You've hit on a key point. I also don't understand why some sim racers think
> like they do (I have a theory though. Starts with G and ends in L). I've
> been driving for 15 years and I've yet to lose control of a  car.  :-)

> David G Fisher

        Maybe you should put bias ply tires on your car instead of
radials<sp>.  Then with your car put a 1000 HP engine in it.  (gpl-- 4xx
HP with a 1500 lb car.. 1/3 hp per lb.) (your car 3000 lbs with ?? HP..
less then 1/10 hp per lb)  That should give you an idea of where I'm
going anyhow.  Then there's the suspension enhancements during the last
30 years to think about.

        IMO, SCGT was a good game, but with all the arcade extras, I couldn't
be immersed enough to stay at it.  It's still is a good Sim, If it had
the capability for 20 human drivers, I bet it might be talked about more
often.  Last I knew you could only race against 10 at the most.  Same
with Viper, If you could race more humans and if it had recognized
tracks...

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/

Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

GTX_SlotCa

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by GTX_SlotCa » Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:00:00

But Mike, we're talking about SCGT in this tread :)

A while back, when radial tires were not as common as they are now, I always
thought bias belted tires gave me a better feel for the grip. Radials had
better grip, but seemed to let go more suddenly. Anyway, I think that GT3
sim cars should handle like GT3 cars, and old F1 sim cars should handle like
old F1s. As far as GPL goes, and I'm really getting into it, I still think
that the high speed handling is captured much better than the low speed
handling. I love the  game, but there are some serious flaws. The sand trap
at Parabolica should slow the car down, not speed it up into the wall.  Not
to repeat myself, but I had the opportunity to take a couple test laps in a
10 year old Lotus back in (about) 1977 at Loudon NH. I certainly didn't push
the car because you never break anything you can't pay for, but it was quite
revealing nevertheless. The car was quite agile and sure footed, and at
lower speeds (under 60mph) and neutral throttle, it didn't spin out even
under quite severe turning, and the brakes had all kinds of stopping power.
I was really amazed at the car.  I know it was a long time ago, and I never
raced them (I was racing enduro karts and motocycle back then), but I think
I'm remembering this accurately.

Anyway, just my opinion, but SCGT doesn't have to be less grippy.

Slot





> > >I don't know why so many sim drivers think
> > > all cars should handle and stop like they're on ice. I expect the sim
car
> > to
> > > handle and stop better than my family sedan.

> > > Slot

> > You've hit on a key point. I also don't understand why some sim racers
think
> > like they do (I have a theory though. Starts with G and ends in L). I've
> > been driving for 15 years and I've yet to lose control of a  car.  :-)

> > David G Fisher

> Maybe you should put bias ply tires on your car instead of
> radials<sp>.  Then with your car put a 1000 HP engine in it.  (gpl-- 4xx
> HP with a 1500 lb car.. 1/3 hp per lb.) (your car 3000 lbs with ?? HP..
> less then 1/10 hp per lb)  That should give you an idea of where I'm
> going anyhow.  Then there's the suspension enhancements during the last
> 30 years to think about.

> IMO, SCGT was a good game, but with all the arcade extras, I couldn't
> be immersed enough to stay at it.  It's still is a good Sim, If it had
> the capability for 20 human drivers, I bet it might be talked about more
> often.  Last I knew you could only race against 10 at the most.  Same
> with Viper, If you could race more humans and if it had recognized
> tracks...

> --
> =========================================
> Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
> =========================================
> http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/

> Racing online with the help of......

> Race Communications Association
> Holodyne Engineering
> Mystic Music
> (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

David G Fishe

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by David G Fishe » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00


You've hit on a key point. I also don't understand why some sim racers think
like they do (I have a theory though. Starts with G and ends in L). I've
been driving for 15 years and I've yet to lose control of a  car.  :-)

David G Fisher

David Er

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by David Er » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00





> > >I don't know why so many sim drivers think
> > > all cars should handle and stop like they're on ice. I expect the sim
car
> > to
> > > handle and stop better than my family sedan.

> > > Slot

> > You've hit on a key point. I also don't understand why some sim racers
think
> > like they do (I have a theory though. Starts with G and ends in L). I've
> > been driving for 15 years and I've yet to lose control of a  car.  :-)

> > David G Fisher
(snip)
> Maybe you should put bias ply tires on your car instead of
> radials<sp>.  Then with your car put a 1000 HP engine in it.  (gpl-- 4xx
> HP with a 1500 lb car.. 1/3 hp per lb.) (your car 3000 lbs with ?? HP..
> less then 1/10 hp per lb)  That should give you an idea of where I'm
> going anyhow.  Then there's the suspension enhancements during the last
> 30 years to think about.

> Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
> =========================================

Heck , you don't need a 1000 hp to prove this. Back in the real 1967 I
proved this by almost running out of money and buying *really* cheap tires
(rim protecters) to replace the worn out Michelin radials  on the rear of my
wonderful Triumph TR4A. These *** things coupled with the Michelins still
on the front combined to make a car that handled *worse* than ANY GPL car.
Tail happy would be a mild term to describe the driving style. I made at
least a 1000 miles before I ended up doing a 70 mph double barrell roll into
a 6 foot ditch becuase of the handleing. GPL isn't as far off as people
sometimes think: the tires of the day were complete and utter ***compared
to modern tires. Radial tires and new *** compounds in the "70s were the
best thing that ever happened to the automobile, IMNSHO

David

!!Name/Address!! placed here)

Dave Henri

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Dave Henri » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00




> >I don't know why so many sim drivers think
> > all cars should handle and stop like they're on ice. I expect the sim car  to  handle and stop better than my family sedan.

> > Slot
> You've hit on a key point. I also don't understand why some sim racers >think like they do (I have a theory though. Starts with G and ends in >L). I've been driving for 15 years and I've yet to lose control of a  >car.  :-)

> David G Fisher

  When I had ICR1 it ruined me as a sim driver.  Because it fairly
closely modeled the huge amount of downforce and grip that early '90's
Indycars produced, you could hold your braking until the apex was "past"
your nost and still cut inside another car for a pass.  When ICR2 came
out I began slipping and sliding and I've never gotten the sucess I had
with ICR1.  A sim doesn't have to slippery or spin prone, but if the car
chosen to model was a tempermental handful, then the sim should mimic
that.
  I recently saw some magazine articles about Brian Redman, a very
accomplished road racer.  He gave an interview and talked about the
Porche 917. (I grew up watching the blue and orange Gulf Porche's kick
***at Le Mans on ABC) but he said that 'legendary' car by that
accomplished car builder was an absolute horror on the track.  Weaving
down the Mulsane straight with no idea where the car would wobble next.
I would hope that if someone did a historical LeMans sim then behavior
like that should be included.
  That said...and in reference to your above statement.  I have been
driving for 25 years and have spun both 180, and 360 degrees both on and
off road.  I have broken my  vertebrae twice, concussed myself on more
than one occasion and trashed several cars.  Am I a good driver?
Probably better than the average American who thinks an Apex is a ski
resort, but I definately have a few shortcommings... :)
  (oops off topic)  I would love to see a gorgeous sim that models cars
that grip the pavement like a vise and spit out gobs of horsepower, and
controll that allows me to throw the thing around willynilly.  But I
also enjoy the challenges, the accurate 'feeling' that comes from trying
to hang onto a car that just doesn't want to stay under my butt.
dave henrie
Hal

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Hal » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

I'll probably get flamed too, but SCGT is the one 'program' that I've
stuck with the most. It has just has the right balance for me. I don't
want to spend weeks learning to do one track as in GPL. When I get home
from work I want to play something that is fun and a little taxing. I
play for recreation not to able to think I'm a real ace drive in real
life. If I wanted that thrill I would be tearing around some go-kart
track or visiting a rally school etc. There's plenty of options for
real driving nowadays.

I can appreciate the attraction of GPL and the like. It's just that I
feel the sometimes this 'sim' subject is pushed a bit too hard.

This planet is diverse with diverse people on it, thank god. Each to
his own I say.

Keep the pedal to the metal.

Hal9001

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Chris Bloo

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Chris Bloo » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

One thing I've learnt from this thread is that I am not one of the old
timers in this NG as I had feared:)
Michael Barlo

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Michael Barlo » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

        I heard Need for Speed does this!

just having fun with ya, ;-)
Mike
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/

Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Scott B. Huste

Sports Car Gt, Is it a Sim or an arcade game?

by Scott B. Huste » Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Just to clear it up... I never said I expected it to handle like GPL.  All I
said was I have driven a GT-1, and the GT-1 in SportsCar GT does NOT handle like
the GT-1 I raced.  I would not expect it to 'feel' like a 1967 F1 car, but if
its a 'sim', I would expect it to handle more like a GT-1 than I feel it does
currently.

Ive never driven a GT-3 Porche or any other 3 so I cant speak for those in terms
of personal experience.

Maybe we can get Tom Pabst to comment since I believe he has raced in numerous
divisions of sports car racing.

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com


> Well, we won't flame Scott for his opinion, but I sure disagree. Out of the
> box SCGT is a very good sim. The GTQ class (which of course doesn't really
> exist), when loaded with all the options money can buy (in the game), is
> very close to the real GT3. The GT3 and 2 in the sim are off (unless GT3
> cars can do over 190mph now), but the GT1 is also quite good.  But as I
> recall from my younger days, the GTQ (as a GT3) is the most accurate of any
> sim I've tried. Its nice to see a sim where time was spent on the physics
> engine instead of just making it slippery. Of course, these cars are
> probably the easiest to model. I don't know why so many sim drivers think
> all cars should handle and stop like they're on ice. I expect the sim car to
> handle and stop better than my family sedan.

> Slot


> > I thought that I was a good sim racer until I played MGPRS, I suck!!
> >That's strange because I was good  at GP2 with all the driving aids
> >turned off.  Now back to Sports Car GT, I enjoy playing the game,car
> >the car control seems to be spot on.  I just wanted to know what you
> >guys/gals on RAS think.  Is it a Sim or an Arcade Racer?

> >One more Question:  Are there any other F1 sims that are good?  After
> >2 years of playing MGPRS, I've come to the conclution that the game is
> >not for me.

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

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