rec.autos.simulators

Wheels vs Joysticks

Zoot

Wheels vs Joysticks

by Zoot » Mon, 10 May 1999 04:00:00

I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old
Flightstick and have had a great time.  With the Flightstick I am able
to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL.  So,
I can make the stick work.  

Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula.  Nice wheel.  Well
built and very comfortable.  The only quam I have is that the brake
pedal does not have much travel.  Anyways, with the wheel I have been
turned into a complete NOVICE.  After about an hour of lapping
Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36.  10 seconds off my joystick pace!    I
feel inadequate!

The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of
power slides.  With the joystick, steering corrections were much
quicker and sharper.  With the wheel (because of the amount of
movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations
which forces  you into nice long drifts.  

I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick,
with my wheel.  I'm not optimistic.  :)  How have you other joystick
converts fared?

Zooter

Steve

Wheels vs Joysticks

by Steve » Mon, 10 May 1999 04:00:00

I feel the same way as you do about the joystick. I have been using
it for years with many race simulators and feel the most comfortable with
it. I know this sounds funny but i go to my friends
house (he has the wheel) and try racing and it's like starting all
over again. I'm going to stay with the joystick myself.
Steve!


john moor

Wheels vs Joysticks

by john moor » Mon, 10 May 1999 04:00:00

Well, the current world record is 1:23 something with a wheel the 2nd
place is with a stick with most people using a wheel. But most definitely
you should use whatever feels right.
JM

> I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old
> Flightstick and have had a great time.  With the Flightstick I am able
> to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL.  So,
> I can make the stick work.

> Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula.  Nice wheel.  Well
> built and very comfortable.  The only quam I have is that the brake
> pedal does not have much travel.  Anyways, with the wheel I have been
> turned into a complete NOVICE.  After about an hour of lapping
> Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36.  10 seconds off my joystick pace!    I
> feel inadequate!

> The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of
> power slides.  With the joystick, steering corrections were much
> quicker and sharper.  With the wheel (because of the amount of
> movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations
> which forces  you into nice long drifts.

> I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick,
> with my wheel.  I'm not optimistic.  :)  How have you other joystick
> converts fared?

> Zooter

JimmyJam

Wheels vs Joysticks

by JimmyJam » Mon, 10 May 1999 04:00:00


>I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old
>Flightstick and have had a great time.  With the Flightstick I am able
>to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL.  So,
>I can make the stick work.  

>Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula.  Nice wheel.  Well
>built and very comfortable.  The only quam I have is that the brake
>pedal does not have much travel.  Anyways, with the wheel I have been
>turned into a complete NOVICE.  After about an hour of lapping
>Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36.  10 seconds off my joystick pace!    I
>feel inadequate!

>The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of
>power slides.  With the joystick, steering corrections were much
>quicker and sharper.  With the wheel (because of the amount of
>movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations
>which forces  you into nice long drifts.  

>I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick,
>with my wheel.  I'm not optimistic.  :)  How have you other joystick
>converts fared?

>Zooter

I also used my trusty ole CH Flightstick before I bought the Logitech
Wingman Formula Force wheel. At first it took some getting used to
but after a while I became accustomed to it and shed many seconds
off my original GPL times. I tried the other day to go back using the
joystick and I couldnt do worth a darn. Give yourself about a week or
so and youll be killing your old records. And yes the travel of the
brake does present itself to be a bit of a problem but luckily for
you, you dont have the force feedback wheel and your suppose to be
able to convert a set of CH pedals to work with the non-force feedback
wheel. I also have a set of CH pedals but unfortunately I dont believe
you can convert them with the Formula Force wheel. I must admit
though the CH pedals do kick butt! On the Logitech website they
suppose to have some sort of utility that lets you adjust the axis of
the logitech  brake pedal to where you can have much better control
in GPL. I havent tried it yet though.
D&S Schwab

Wheels vs Joysticks

by D&S Schwab » Wed, 12 May 1999 04:00:00

Well, I have to agree in terms of adjustment. I had a Flightstick, and was
running probably similar times to yours (25s in Brabham at Zandy). I was
VERY used to racing with a stick from old ICR2 and N2.GPL was hard, but I
eventually mastered the stick control.

Then I built my own wheel. Works great. I don't find the problem so much in
the driving itself or the reaction speed. My adjustment has to do with
timing. With the stick, I knew just where to brake, turn, accelerate and how
hard to do so and when. The wheel is very different in that you can have the
wheel turned a bit and not realize it when braking or gassing it. The stick
was easy to tell because center was straight up and once the stick neared
straight up, you could lean on the power or brake.

At Zandy, I am about 1 second slower. At Spa, I actually have gotten faster
(a lot has to do with more practice there, but faster is faster...).
Silverstone is a disaster.... I was just into the 27s in the Brab with the
stick. Really starting to nail it. But the wheel is way different.
Silverstone is all about rythym and timing, due to the long corners and fast
speeds. And my timing is TOTALLY off there. But I think I am going to slow
the steering and see if that helps.

One thing that may help is playing with the Linearity slider and the
steering ratios. Fine-tuning these may help you get the feel in the wheel
that you want.

I think you'll get there, but it will just take time. I know at some places
I am adjusting well, some not so good. Practice should help out.

Also, with the stick, I used the "virtual arms." I found them useful to see
the wheel unwinding when I was exiting corners. I kept them on with the
wheel, and didn't think twice about them. But then I took them off today.
BIG difference. I am now (correctly) forced to FEEL the car instead of
watching the arms like I did before. I think it helps to turn them off with
a wheel.

--Dave


>I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old
>Flightstick and have had a great time.  With the Flightstick I am able
>to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL.  So,
>I can make the stick work.

>Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula.  Nice wheel.  Well
>built and very comfortable.  The only quam I have is that the brake
>pedal does not have much travel.  Anyways, with the wheel I have been
>turned into a complete NOVICE.  After about an hour of lapping
>Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36.  10 seconds off my joystick pace!    I
>feel inadequate!

>The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of
>power slides.  With the joystick, steering corrections were much
>quicker and sharper.  With the wheel (because of the amount of
>movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations
>which forces  you into nice long drifts.

>I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick,
>with my wheel.  I'm not optimistic.  :)  How have you other joystick
>converts fared?

>Zooter

Mark C Dod

Wheels vs Joysticks

by Mark C Dod » Wed, 12 May 1999 04:00:00

Horses for courses. I find a FF Wheel great in some games and my trusty
Microsoft USB Joystick better for others. Since most games have a
senisitivity level and a lot have a linear/non linear option for the
steering I can usually adjust both for about equal times. One game I can;t
stand with the wheel is EA Superbikes. The leaning of the joystick seems
much more natural to me. I find TOCA 2 better with the joystick as well
because no matter what settings I use I can get the Thrustmaster to
repsond quick enough steer into the spins caused by other cars hotting me.
Keep practicing and I am sure you will eventually get that 10 seconds
back.

> I've been playing racing sims for a long time with my trusty old
> Flightstick and have had a great time.  With the Flightstick I am able
> to match the faster lap times I have seen posted for GP2 and GPL.  So,
> I can make the stick work.

> Yesterday I bought a Logitech Wingman Formula.  Nice wheel.  Well
> built and very comfortable.  The only quam I have is that the brake
> pedal does not have much travel.  Anyways, with the wheel I have been
> turned into a complete NOVICE.  After about an hour of lapping
> Zandvoort I ran a best 1:36.  10 seconds off my joystick pace!    I
> feel inadequate!

> The interesting thing with the wheel in GPL is the proliferation of
> power slides.  With the joystick, steering corrections were much
> quicker and sharper.  With the wheel (because of the amount of
> movement required) it takes longer to correct the oversteer situations
> which forces  you into nice long drifts.

> I'm not sure If I'll ever reach the quickness level of my joystick,
> with my wheel.  I'm not optimistic.  :)  How have you other joystick
> converts fared?

> Zooter


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