rec.autos.simulators

Anyone who's ever seen historic racing will look at me in disbelief, but the
Nordschleife must bring out something in the racers.  I haven't seen that
much sideways action on asphalt since the 70s!  And all I wachted was
practice.  A friend and me were at Hohe Acht, not suspecting anything, when
over a hundred classic racecars all came drifting around the corner, having
to apply hefty amounts of opposite lock and quite a few of them running
wide, spinning, or just slamming into the armco.  This was the first lap of
practice and we thought they'd be a little more careful the next time
around.  Not at all!

It was beautiful and the best racing I've seen in a long long time.

-Laurens de Jong.

<snip>

Thanks for the info Laurens. Say, how long is the drive to the
Nordschleife for you? It's a 4 hour drive from where I live, so I
don't see myself buying a year pass (allthough DM1025 is quite cheap
for a whole year!). DM22 is not really expensive too, karting costs
allmost just as much for 10 minutes. And I hope they use the money to
keep the road in a little bit better condition..
What do you drive on the ring, car or bike? And what kind?
One other question, I've seen a lot of movies from the Ring, and I
noticed that allmost the whole road is full with chalk writing.
What's that for?

Andre

Andre

A little over 3 hours.  I've taken eleven trips to Nrburg this year,
between a half-day and 3-day weekends in length.  Accomodation can easily be
had for DM 50 in Nrburg or Adenau (although I normally stay in nearby
Schuld).

If DM 1025 is too much, then 5 laps for DM 88, 6 laps for DM 119 or 12 laps
for DM 224 are alternatives.

Of course, the real cost is much higher.  Petrol, tires, brakes, shocks,
divorce, it all adds up, you know!

condition.

Every Monday morning is used for track repairs.  In the summer, work starts
at 6 AM and they work until the job is done.  Armco is fixed even quicker.
I've seen armco bent by a crash that caused a track closure, which was
repaired by the time the track was reopened.  (Although actually, you are
billed for damage to armco, so your DM 22 don't go towards that.)

This is one reason you always have to do at least one recon lap when you
come to the Ring.  There are always little changes in track condition from
week to week so if you've been away, say, 6 weeks, you can't count on the
track being like it was when you last saw it.
.

No bike, I'm happy to say.  Not that there aren't very skilled and sensible
bike riders out there, I just wouldn't be one of them.  I used to drive my
company car (like you), a Rover 400 1.6, until it sort of stopped resembling
a car (mostly shocks).  Since then I've rented (MX-5, Opel Astra Coupe,
Volvo V70).  In 2001 I will be buying a proper car...

Spectators showing their support for racers in the 24-Hours, Veedol
Langstreckpokal, or Castrol-Haugg Cup events.  Most of this you don't really
see.  There's a German flag painted on the track just before the Kallenhard
right-hander, which is kind of hard to miss, but other than that, the track
looks black tarmac to me when I drive it.

There are also dots painted on, take a closer look on one of those videos.
These are the turn-in and apex points for the turns.  Quite helpful!  It's
hard to find them when you're driving at first, but if you take the time to
go watch trackside for a while, you will learn a lot about the line around
the Ring.  You'll see the difference between people hitting those turn-in
and apex dots, and those who don't.  And your GPL-experience isn't
necessarily helpful, either.  Some turn-in points from GPL don't work in
real life, and vice versa.

-Laurens de Jong.

If I remember correctly Henna Hakinnen did an interesting real Ring vs
GPL Ring comparisson. I believe the jump before Flugplatz was thumbed
down and the jump at the long straight isn't being used anymore? You
leave the track just before the jump now?
Any other significant differences between the real Ring and how it's
modelled in GPL? How is Karrussel in real life, do you drive on the
tiles or do you drive around them?

Andre

The most striking thing for me was that it seems much more... cramped in
the videos. There's more stuff around the track (obviously) and it seems
tighter in some ways. I guess the GPL field of view makes it look more
spacious.

- topi
--
http://www.iki.fi/tjp/

There are several comparison sites like that on the web:

http://www.hyperstim.com/home_units/news/nurburgreport99/nurb99compar...
tml
http://puskarutaja.figc.net/nurburgr.htm

And a satellite view:

http://lugnutsgpl.homestead.com/files/nordschleife_vs__GPL.jpg

Apart from things the Papyrus engineers didn't get quite right, there are
also differences in the Nrburgring, because of the 1971 rebuild.  The jump
in Kesselchen was removed (and I don't think anyone gets airborned there in
GPL, anyway, but it was a real jump in 1967!); the jump in Brnnchen too,
gone; jumps at Quiddelbacher H?he and the Dottinger H?he straight flattened;
and a lot of curves straightened out.

For instance, I have a picture of the run-up from Klostertal to Karussell,
taken briefly after the rebuild.  You can still see how the track used to
run, and it's obvious how much easier it's become!  The last right-hand turn
just before Karussell, which most of us can now safely ignore, was just that
little much tighter back then, making it impossible to drive straight all
the way from Klostertal.  It's little things like that all over the track
that make Nrburgring a much easier place to drive now, than in the sixties.

modelled in GPL?

The most significant difference to me is the left-hander just before
Pflanzgarten.  It's might tighter in GPL than it ever was, and certainly
than it is today.  You can easily see that for yourself in the satellite
view comparison, see above.

around them?

I told you this before, Andre!  Try to remember now.....

I drive on the concrete banking.  A very few take the outside line, to save
their vehicles a little.  Some people's cars have little ground clearance
(I've taken passenger laps in a Porsche 928 and Ferrari 355 that had that
problem), which is a problem in the Karussell.  They have to put two wheels
on the apron.

In your 106, it's just a matter of throwing your car in, accelerate somewhat
throughout and then pop out around the corner.  Fun, fun, fun!  But... you
can be launched pretty hard there.  I've seen an 85 hp Opel Kadett fly into
the armco there.

-Laurens de Jong.

PS. Eifel Klassik in 2001 will be from October 5-7.

Yup, I was surprised too about this. Some parts look really narrow in
the Porsche video. In GPL it's also weird, on the straight for
example, from the***pit view it looks as there is hardly room for 1
car, yet when you watch a replay from outside view there's much more
room than you would think.

Andre

<snip>

Thanks for all the info bud, very interesting.
And sorry that I forgot that you told me about the concrete banking
before :)

Andre

The don't connect the modern track to the Nordschleife... the "old" track is
still all there. Parts of it are used in the modern layout and therefore,
for most of the year, are cordoned off.

You do indeed enter (and exit) the track on the Dottinger Hohe... to avoid
the "modern" track there's a shortcut from the Hohenrein section to the exit
of Nordkehre (which leads into Hatzenbach.

Jan.
=---

After hearing about that "Easter Monday connection" I've asked at the
Ring office about times when Nordschleife (20.8km) and GP track
(4.5km) are connected (25.3km) and accessible in public driving hours.

They said that this is never the case, and Eastern Monday 200 was
special because an event was cancelled.
Usually, there are different events (usually testing sessions or
driving lessons) going on on Nordschleife and GP track, so both tracks
stay separated usually.

--
   ____
 /______\_              .\\ a t t h e a d
[  XT./~~~~                    
[  Rex\_____      http://my.bawue.de/~matthead
 \____/\__]_]     1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro (154 Mm)

In 1970/71, the Ring was changed completely because F1 wanted it
"safer". Many jumps were made softer, or removed, like in Kesselchen,
Brnnchen, and on the D?ttinger H?he straight.

Well, no more jump, but the new entrance/exit is on the straight, when
approaching the Antoniusbuche bridge.

That depends on you.
Most people, on their first lap, don't dare to "go down there". ;-)

--
   ____
 /______\_              .\\ a t t h e a d
[  XT./~~~~                    
[  Rex\_____      http://my.bawue.de/~matthead
 \____/\__]_]     1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro (154 Mm)

Any Saturday with a Langstreckenpokal race will do.

A bad side effect of this driving style were big delays after some
crashes.
So, the announced demonstration laps of 1970s F1 cars (Throroughbred
GP) did not take place because it was too late (no head lights on F1
cars).

Usually around late September/early October.

--
   ____
 /______\_              .\\ a t t h e a d
[  XT./~~~~                    
[  Rex\_____      http://my.bawue.de/~matthead
 \____/\__]_]     1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro (154 Mm)

Thanks for clearing it up and saving quite a few of us a disappointment,
Matthias!

-Laurens de Jong.